Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23.11.2010, 23:06
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Notarised affidavit rejected...

We have spent the past few months collecting and legalising all the required documents needed for our marriage application. We did everything to the letter; our documents were all dated within the past six months and in military style we double-checked, even triple-checked, before sending in the post.
Today, we received a reply stating that the notarised affidavit was not acceptable. (I did this at the British Embassy in Bern. It stated my civil status, my British nationality and UK address, all in French). In addition, we were asked to prove my boyfriend's place of residence (he is an EU resident with a 'B permit' and we'd sent a photocopy of his permit, as per the required list of documents) and to obtain a copy of his first marriage, despite the fact that we'd sent the divorce papers- and proof of the first marriage was not initially asked for.
We have since spoken to the person dealing with our application, thinking that there might have been a mix up. Apparently not.

So, it's back to square one again; except this time I'm going back to the UK to get an affidavit even though, according to the marriage application letter, one can obtain it via the British Embassy if already in Switzerland.

I'm thinking of writing a letter of complaint since I wasted nearly 200CHF (107CHF for the document, the rest on train fares) for an official affidavit which turns out to be unofficial.

Am I missing a point or something, or is this just bureaucracy for the sake of it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 23.11.2010, 23:45
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

I assume you are trying to marry in Switzerland, so is it the Office de l'état civil (local Swiss Standesamt) that is being difficult?

Why did you need the affidavit, have you lost your British birth certificate? Or do they reject the one you have due to it's age? Are they making the mistake of not recognising a seal, or have you given them a photocopy?

It is normal to ask for the relevant marriage papers to go with the divorce papers.

Maybe you are unaware of the legal implications, if you manage to pull a fast one over the Office de l'état civil (Standesamt)? They have to be sure you are whiter than white, and that you are not trying for a bit of polygamy.

My advice: make an appointment and go back to the Embassy and ask them for their advice on where you are going wrong. Maybe they need to write to the Office de l'état civil (Standesamt) about your certificates. And who came up with the affidavit idea: it is your sworn statement, not the required proof.

In Switzerland a photocopy of your B permit isn't very special. You need to go to your Commune / Gemeinde and buy a Certificate of Residence, it costs about Fr 20 and carries the local village stamp.

My ex-boss was adopted at birth and was brought up in Devon. His chosen future wife was born in Edinburgh. He had no birth certificate, only his adoption papers. (At the time he was not allowed to find out the names of his true parents). The German Standesamt (Office de l'état civil) wanted proof they were not siblings! Now that was a difficult one to prove!

Last edited by Ittigen; 24.11.2010 at 00:04.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 23.11.2010, 23:47
J_T's Avatar
J_T J_T is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: near Bern
Posts: 1,080
Groaned at 20 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,175 Times in 523 Posts
J_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond reputeJ_T has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

I don't think it is bureaucracy, rather that the person notarizing a document must be recognized in the jurisdiction of the recipient of the document, or failing that, a second recognized notary in the jurisdiction of the recipient must confirm the validity of the first notary.

Notaries internationally have their way of confirming each other, or on the other hand, exposing a fraudulent document or forged notarization. In business lawyers usually handle all this, but when it is personal you have to chase it all up yourself, unless you want to pay a lawyer for it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank J_T for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 23.11.2010, 23:54
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,354
Groaned at 42 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 6,448 Times in 2,964 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Good Luck!

All those 'i''s must be dotted, and those 't''s crossed!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 24.11.2010, 00:08
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
I don't think it is bureaucracy, rather that the person notarizing a document must be recognized in the jurisdiction of the recipient of the document, or failing that, a second recognized notary in the jurisdiction of the recipient must confirm the validity of the first notary.

Notaries internationally have their way of confirming each other, or on the other hand, exposing a fraudulent document or forged notarization. In business lawyers usually handle all this, but when it is personal you have to chase it all up yourself, unless you want to pay a lawyer for it.
but surely the Canton de Vaud recognises the British Embassy in Berne.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24.11.2010, 00:22
jrspet's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Quaint Wädenswil, Zürich, CH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 27 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 7,036 Times in 3,912 Posts
jrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond reputejrspet has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Would an Apostille be better albeit more expensive since documents needs to be authenticated by a government for another government ?

http://www.fr.ch/cha/files/pdf1/abcs...lles_e_sec.pdf

Last edited by jrspet; 24.11.2010 at 00:38.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jrspet for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 24.11.2010, 00:27
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,524
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,739 Times in 4,345 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
<snip>So, it's back to square one again; except this time I'm going back to the UK to get an affidavit</snip>
Why not get married in the UK too?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 24.11.2010, 00:37
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Hello Ittigen!

Thank you for your reply!

Yes we are trying to marry here in Switzerland. When we first contacted the Office de l'etat civil, they asked us a few questions, created a marriage dossier and sent it to us for completion. The affidavit was one of the documents which I had to obtain. I'm a British National, was born in Hong Kong (at the time when the British ruled) and have lived in the UK for 25 years. I also had to send a copy of my birth certificate, from Hong Kong, which was certified as authentic.

Thank you, I'll take your advice and go to the British Embassy. I was also thinking of collecting more proof of who we are (bills from our residence in the UK, etc.) and that we've been together for almost five years, just in case it's asked for (and might help prove that this is not a marriage for convenience- if it is implied).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PHOENIX2 for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 24.11.2010, 00:42
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
Why not get married in the UK too?
Yes, the idea did cross our minds. One only has to be resident for seven days!!
But can't, due to boyfriend's work.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24.11.2010, 01:00
Ittigen
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

God if he is a spy no wonder the Embassy screwed you up!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24.11.2010, 01:22
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
God if he is a spy no wonder the Embassy screwed you up!
Mmm....it makes you wonder whether 'Big Brother' is really watching.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24.11.2010, 09:54
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,746
Groaned at 75 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 2,649 Times in 1,194 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

When getting married we looked in to what paperwork was needed to get married in Switzerland. We gave up and decided to get married in my home country instead.

If you are both British and your future husband has been married before, I would definitely think that getting married in the UK would be a lot easier.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tilia for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 24.11.2010, 14:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 3,054
Groaned at 96 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 4,026 Times in 1,597 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

I would get them to explain to you EXACTLY why it is insufficient and to give you the reference for the instructions that say what exactly is required.

The reason I say this is because I know someone who was forced by their Gemeinde to go to Bern to the Embassy for a notarized document shortly after a serious operation. The 90 minute car ride in each direction was more than just a bit uncomfortable, but the couple did what was required. When they got back to the Gemeinde another guy said that he was not sure exactly why they had gone to Bern as they could have gone to a local notary...I think the husband almost jumped over the counter to punch the guy! But, in several instances this couple were told things and in dome instances asked the Gemeinde to check in Aarau. In several cases even Aarau was unsure what was required until they started checking the "instructions". So...in summary, not every bureaucrat knows everything by heart, get them to look stuff up and you may be pleasantly surprised (or not, as the case may be).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Snoopy for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 24.11.2010, 16:53
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
I would get them to explain to you EXACTLY why it is insufficient and to give you the reference for the instructions that say what exactly is required.

The reason I say this is because I know someone who was forced by their Gemeinde to go to Bern to the Embassy for a notarized document shortly after a serious operation. The 90 minute car ride in each direction was more than just a bit uncomfortable, but the couple did what was required. When they got back to the Gemeinde another guy said that he was not sure exactly why they had gone to Bern as they could have gone to a local notary...I think the husband almost jumped over the counter to punch the guy! But, in several instances this couple were told things and in dome instances asked the Gemeinde to check in Aarau. In several cases even Aarau was unsure what was required until they started checking the "instructions". So...in summary, not every bureaucrat knows everything by heart, get them to look stuff up and you may be pleasantly surprised (or not, as the case may be).
We've spoken once again to the 'Officier' dealing with our application, to ascertain exactly what was wrong with the affidavit. We received the same answer as yesterday, "in short- it's unacceptable". Further probing didn't help so I kindly asked for the original affidavit to be returned, as a copy of it had been made and sent back to us. There was a hesitation in the Officer's voice, followed by a "Why?". I explained that I wanted to return to the Embassy to ask a few questions and if necessary obtain a refund. (I was told by the Embassy to retain the receipt). Again, another pregnant pause followed. Finally, and seemingly reluctant, it was agreed that the document would be returned to me.

To be continued...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24.11.2010, 16:57
princessduck's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 891
Groaned at 41 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 492 Times in 265 Posts
princessduck has an excellent reputationprincessduck has an excellent reputationprincessduck has an excellent reputationprincessduck has an excellent reputation
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Hm..this is quite scary as maybe I will marry soon and now you telling this I am quite scared of the answer! What is the reason they rejected you? Did they tell you yet or do you have any idea...?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank princessduck for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 24.11.2010, 17:05
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
Hm..this is quite scary as maybe I will marry soon and now you telling this I am quite scared of the answer! What is the reason they rejected you? Did they tell you yet or do you have any idea...?
No, we haven't gone through the interview stage yet. The documents which we'd submitted were analysed and the affidavit deemed unofficial!
It's a case of one step forward, three steps back.

Last edited by PHOENIX2; 24.11.2010 at 17:09. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24.11.2010, 17:07
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,975
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

You need to ask to speak to someone else. Who rejected it and why. Tell them you need to FIX it so it is acceptable to them and without know what is wrong you can't do that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 24.11.2010, 17:59
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
You need to ask to speak to someone else. Who rejected it and why. Tell them you need to FIX it so it is acceptable to them and without know what is wrong you can't do that.
I've been given the impression that I have to prove who I really am by returning to the UK and re-doing the affidavit there. Maybe I'm naive but I don't see how obtaining the document in the UK makes a difference. All I'll be doing is swearing an oath on British soil and then have to get the affidavit professionally translated.
I spoke to my father (who spent many years working across the globe for the British government) and he was shocked. He stated that the Embassy exists so as to help expats. who are abroad, otherwise there would be no reason for their existence.
When I started this whole process, I first contacted the local county council in the UK- I even sent them a translation of the letter from the Office de l'Etat Civil - and asked whether it was necessary for me to fly back home. The Senior Registrar made some phone calls and informed me that it could all be done at the Embassy in Bern. At the Embassy they re-assured me that the affidavit would be fine and pointed out that I should keep a hold of the receipt.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24.11.2010, 18:19
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,975
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

I think European Embassies are pretty useless these days. It's sad but true. I went to the Portuguese embassy to get new id card and they said basically it was easier and faster for me to fly to Portugal to do it. Which I did. It went to the office in the AM and picked up my ID in the PM.

Sometimes they get all weird about those papers, don't know or just get stubborn about the whole thing. I like the whole "small town" thing. But I hate when they get on their power trips. When we got married they made me change my name when I was not obliged to. It's still p!sses me off. But I only use my husband's name in Switzerland on official things.

Anywho! , I'd definitely get the paper translated, get the apostle then bring it back THEN ask for a supervisor.
__________________
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 24.11.2010, 18:56
PHOENIX2's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 138
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 92 Times in 37 Posts
PHOENIX2 has earned some respectPHOENIX2 has earned some respect
Re: Notarised affidavit rejected...

Quote:
View Post
I think European Embassies are pretty useless these days. It's sad but true. I went to the Portuguese embassy to get new id card and they said basically it was easier and faster for me to fly to Portugal to do it. Which I did. It went to the office in the AM and picked up my ID in the PM.

Sometimes they get all weird about those papers, don't know or just get stubborn about the whole thing. I like the whole "small town" thing. But I hate when they get on their power trips. When we got married they made me change my name when I was not obliged to. It's still p!sses me off. But I only use my husband's name in Switzerland on official things.

Anywho! , I'd definitely get the paper translated, get the apostle then bring it back THEN ask for a supervisor.
In the beginning my reaction was verging on extremely annoyed purely because of the conflicting information. But in truth I secretly admire how strict the Officer is being with our application! In a previous job I had, a client once hollered at me, "there's obviously no going past you, is there?". So maybe it's karma?

I'm already projecting my mind to the interview stage- I wonder how that will pan out?

Oh well, onwards and upwards...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PHOENIX2 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RAV rejected me as i did not speak German Rich Employment 65 27.08.2010 12:26
Permit rejected-when can we re-apply? Nina123 Permits/visas/government 3 21.04.2010 14:30
work visa rejected for non-eu chris_l Permits/visas/government 18 19.10.2009 21:54
Rejected for B-permit iamcanadian Permits/visas/government 2 16.07.2007 19:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0