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Old 06.12.2010, 02:33
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I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

Hello my name is Chris and I am looking for information on obtaining Swiss citizenship through ancestry. I am a dual Canadian/U.K. citizen with a Swiss Grandmother. I contacted the Swiss Consulate in London to ask if I could apply for citizenship, they responded that I could as long as my Grandmother was Swiss at the time of my birth. (Which she was) Here's where I'm seeking advice please - I am currently 31 years old and I have untill age 32 to apply from abroad. should I apply right away? Or should I go to Switzerland and apply from my Grandmother's Canton? Which would be the simplest route to gaining Swiss citizenship. I still have close family in Switzerland as we are from St. Gallen. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

All the best,
Chris
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Old 06.12.2010, 03:53
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

You need to apply for facilitated naturalization process which is only done from where you are a resident, ie the consulate in Toronto if that is where you live. Since you are not a resident of Switzerland there is no point going to try to do it there. They will not take your application.
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:07
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

Nice try
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:07
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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Nice try
what does that mean?
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:25
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

Hello
I recently applied for my swiss passport from the Montreal office and had very little trouble actually none at all. I do know that my parents registered me at birth but we have done nothing since then and i was able to get me passport without any issues.
My Paternal grandparents are from Switzerland. I suggest you go to the nearest consul and ask them what is necessary. But as miniMia said don`t go to Switzerland as that wouldn't be your "Consul". I know that the Montreal consul was written on my documentation as the "group' to which i belong.
Hopefully this helps.
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:38
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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what does that mean?
Just a coincident that a other guy shows up which has a swiss grand mother
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:44
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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Just a coincident that a other guy shows up which has a swiss grand mother
Ah, well. The other one claims he already is Swiss.
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:53
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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Ah, well. The other one claims he already is Swiss.
And has the passport ,therefore he was register at a consulate in NZ
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Old 06.12.2010, 04:58
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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Hello my name is Chris and I am looking for information on obtaining Swiss citizenship through ancestry. I am a dual Canadian/U.K. citizen with a Swiss Grandmother. I contacted the Swiss Consulate in London to ask if I could apply for citizenship, they responded that I could as long as my Grandmother was Swiss at the time of my birth. (Which she was) Here's where I'm seeking advice please - I am currently 31 years old and I have untill age 32 to apply from abroad. should I apply right away? Or should I go to Switzerland and apply from my Grandmother's Canton? Which would be the simplest route to gaining Swiss citizenship. I still have close family in Switzerland as we are from St. Gallen. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

All the best,
Chris
As far as I know, if you're born abroad then you have to formally declare your desire to retain your Swiss citizenship before the age of 23. In my case this was done by applying for a passport. If it's still possible for you to get a passport at 31 then I guess they must have allowed your parents to express such an interest for you, which seems odd.
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Old 06.12.2010, 05:00
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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As far as I know, if you're born abroad then you have to formally declare your desire to retain your Swiss citizenship before the age of 23. In my case this was done by applying for a passport. If it's still possible for you to get a passport at 31 then I guess they must have allowed your parents to express such an interest for you, which seems odd.
No. Not the same situation. In the OP's case s/he must apply for citizenship through the fascinated naturalization process.
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Old 06.12.2010, 05:21
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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No. Not the same situation. In the OP's case s/he must apply for citizenship through the fascinated naturalization process.
I am talking about the granny/swiss coincident .The guy (daboy)from NZ obtained a passport ,therefore he must have been register in NZ .Chris 29 is looking for citizenship ,because his granny was swiss,If he never was register he can forget about it .I have a wife 4 kids and 7 grand kids all borne outside of CH and are Swiss citizen,but I have theme all registerd at the swiss consulate in Toronto
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Old 06.12.2010, 05:38
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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I am talking about the granny/swiss coincident .The guy (daboy)from NZ obtained a passport ,therefore he must have been register in NZ .Chris 29 is looking for citizenship ,because his granny was swiss,If he never was register he can forget about it .I have a wife 4 kids and 7 grand kids all borne outside of CH and are Swiss citizen,but I have theme all registerd at the swiss consulate in Toronto
No. That is not true. He qualifies to apply through the facilitated naturalization process.
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Old 06.12.2010, 05:53
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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I am talking about the granny/swiss coincident .The guy (daboy)from NZ obtained a passport ,therefore he must have been register in NZ .Chris 29 is looking for citizenship ,because his granny was swiss,If he never was register he can forget about it .I have a wife 4 kids and 7 grand kids all borne outside of CH and are Swiss citizen,but I have theme all registerd at the swiss consulate in Toronto
If I understood Daboy's situation correctly, his mother got a passport through the grandmother, and he got his through his mother. So it didn't skip a step. And he got it when he was 20; from all that I've read you have until 22 to do it. So I wonder what the UK consulate was talking about...

Here's the link from the Swiss government website: Passport mumbo jumbo
It's in French (also German or Italian but no English), the relevant article is Article 10

"L’enfant né à l’étranger de parents dont l’un au moins est suisse perd
la nationalité suisse à 22 ans révolus lorsqu’il a encore une autre nationalité,
à moins que, jusqu’à cet âge, il n’ait été annoncé à une autorité
suisse à l’étranger ou au pays, qu’il ne se soit annoncé lui-même
ou qu’il n’ait déclaré par écrit vouloir conserver la nationalité suisse"

"The child born out of country to parents where at least one is Swiss will lose his Swiss nationality at 22 years old if he has another nationality, in the event that, up to that age, he hasn't been announced to the Swiss authorities either outside of the country or in Switzerland, hasn't announced himself, or declared by letter that he would like to keep the Swiss nationality"

Quickie translation (and it's late ).

Then, from this site:

Notification period
If, for excusable reasons, the Swiss born abroad has forgotten to communicate that he/she wished to maintain Swiss citizenship, he/she can do so before the age of 32. One example of an excusable reason is ignorance the law. On the other hand, not having sufficient financial resources to complete the application at the age of 22 is not viewed as a valid reason.
However, if the individual returns to live in Switzerland, he/she has the right to submit another request for Swiss citizenship no matter how much time has passed.


To answer the OP's question- just go to your consulate in Toronto. They will have all the answers. Swiss Consulate
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:02
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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No. That is not true. He qualifies to apply through the facilitated naturalization process.
I think there is a misunderstanding here is due to confusion between the ordinary passing of Swiss citizenship (by blood) and that by way of naturalisation law. These two are distinct.

According to the infallible wikipedia (which seems to correspond to what i've read on various official ch sites that I can't recall right now): Swiss citizenship is propagated by Jus sanguinis. A person is a Swiss citizen at birth (whether born in Switzerland or not) if he or she is:
  • born to a Swiss father or mother, if parents are married
  • born to a Swiss mother, if parents are not married
Where parents marry after birth and only the father is Swiss, the child acquires Swiss citizenship at that point.
There are exceptions if only the mother is Swiss and she acquired Swiss citizenship on the basis of a previous marriage to a Swiss citizen"

Some other site:

Loss of citizenship
In fact, Swiss who are born abroad lose their citizenship once they are over the age of 22 if they have another nationality and if they have not indicated that they wish to maintain their Swiss citizenship.
If no notification has been given before this age, Swiss citizenship is lost and descendants will not be able claim it. If you wish to maintain your Swiss citizenship, you must submit a specific request to Swiss authorities before the age of 22. If you are presently abroad, apply to the Swiss representative in your country of residence. If you are in Switzerland temporarily, contact the Cantonal Citizenship Office of your home canton.

- So presumably he would have been entitled to claim citizenship before 23, had his mother or father (whichever had been spawned by the grandmother) had been registered and done whatever else to maintain it (make that declaration).

- As he is over 22, he can't do that anymore, so he can't get a passport by right, unless somehow his parents had made that declaration for him, but not gone as far as to apply for a passport for him, whatever something like that might look like or indeed mean. But, from another site:

Reinstatement
Reinstatement is, however, a possibility for people who have lost their Swiss citizenship, although it is subject to certain conditions. Under no circumstance is it considered a right. If the Swiss born abroad has not submitted an application for reinstatement, his/her children will never be able to apply for reinstatement.

- So maybe this is what he has to do. I don't think naturalisation law applies here at all. At least it seems clear that he doesn't fall under the facilitated naturalisation process.
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:18
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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I think there is a misunderstanding here is due to confusion between the ordinary passing of Swiss citizenship (by blood) and that by way of naturalisation law. These two are distinct.

{{SNIP wiki stuff.}}

- So maybe this is what he has to do. I don't think naturalisation law applies here at all. At least it seems clear that he doesn't fall under the facilitated naturalisation process.
Yes. There does seem to be some confusion over wether the OP has a right to ordinary citizenship or facilitated naturalization.

As he said his grandmother was Swiss not mentioning his parents, I assumed he has the right to FN through article 6 here. (A much better source than Wiki, BTW).

Logic being grand parent is Swiss giving citizenship to parent. Parent doesn't request to keep citizenship by age 22 (or 32) thus parent loses citizenship. OP applies for FN through article 6.

However, Mud quoted something regarding age notification period up to age 32 which was also mentioned by the consulate when the OP talked to them. Thus, it could be possible that he might be eligible for citizenship by birth and skipping the FN process. I've never seen this age 32 thing before. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I would imagine the Consulate know better.

Either way, he is eligible some how but can only apply through the consulate for the region where he lives.

ETA: Wiki is wrong also because the child can be Swiss through the father even if the parent are not married as long as the father recognizes the child. ok, i'm not sure about this anymore, whether this is by blood or through FN! it's getting late.:-O
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:32
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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However, Mud quoted something regarding age notification period up to age 32 which was also mentioned by the consulate when the OP talked to them. Thus, it could be possible that he might be eligible for citizenship by birth and skipping the FN process. I've never seen this age 32 thing before. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I would imagine the Consulate know better.

Either way, he is eligible some how but can only apply through the consulate for the region where he lives.
I think it's possible after 32 if he is relocating here. Seems to be an awful lot of ifs and maybes for something so Swiss as being Swiss .
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:36
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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Yes. There does seem to be some confusion over wether the OP has a right to ordinary citizenship or facilitated naturalization.

As he said his grandmother was Swiss not mentioning his parents, I assumed he has the right to FN through article 6 here. (A much better source than Wiki, BTW).

Logic being grand parent is Swiss giving citizenship to parent. Parent doesn't request to keep citizenship by age 22 (or 32) thus parent loses citizenship. OP applies for FN through article 6.

However, Mud quoted something regarding age notification period up to age 32 which was also mentioned by the consulate when the OP talked to them. Thus, it could be possible that he might be eligible for citizenship by birth and skipping the FN process. I've never seen this age 32 thing before. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I would imagine the Consulate know better.

Either way, he is eligible some how but can only apply through the consulate for the region where he lives.

ETA: Wiki is wrong also because the child can be Swiss through the father even if the parent are not married as long as the father recognizes the child.
It's not a better source than wiki regarding jus sanguinis because that article is concerning naturalisation. I'm not sure but I'd assume jus sanguinis is probably not articulated in any Swiss laws and more akin to a peremtory norm of continental european...ism.

Mud closed the gap for us already by finding out the provision relating to excusable reasons for not declaring your intent before 23, by the age of 32.

So there is no more confusion now. That naturalisation stuff is irrelevant for the time being. If his request for citizenship by right is refused, then he can apply for naturalisation, though I still don't see why it would be facilitated.
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:39
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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I think it's possible after 32 if he is relocating here. Seems to be an awful lot of ifs and maybes for something so Swiss as being Swiss .
I don't think there are any ifs as far as the authorities are concerned. They told OP s/he was eligible. It is only EFers who are going back & forth about the whole thing.
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:44
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I don't think there are any ifs as far as the authorities are concerned. They told OP s/he was eligible. It is only EFers who are going back & forth about the whole thing.
I think cannut may have been right. It seems like he got his answer from the consulate. Why's he posting this? Unless he rang them up and, after being told that he could indeed get citizenship if x, instead of saying, "okay how?" he hung up and decided to ask a group of largely non swiss people on the net. I don't know. Seems expensive, Tom.
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Old 06.12.2010, 06:46
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Re: I need advice on Citizenship through Ancestry

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It's not a better source than wiki regarding jus sanguinis because that article is concerning naturalisation. I'm not sure but I'd assume jus sanguinis is probably not articulated in any Swiss laws and more akin to a peremtory norm of continental european...ism.

Mud closed the gap for us already by finding out the provision relating to excusable reasons for not declaring your intent before 23, by the age of 32.

So there is no more confusion now. That naturalisation stuff is irrelevant for the time being. If his request for citizenship by right is refused, then he can apply for naturalisation, though I still don't see why it would be facilitated.
The source (site) is just better for either topic. I was giving you a direct link to the reason why I though he would go through FN, article 6. The page also has the law on nationality better to look there than on Wiki.

We can only assume his source is correct because age 32 is also mentioned by the consulate. However, I've not found any mention of it on an official page website. The site he quotes is not an official website.

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I think cannut may have been right. It seems like he got his answer from the consulate. Why's he posting this? Unless he rang them up and, after being told that he could indeed get citizenship if x, instead of saying, "okay how?" he hung up and decided to ask a group of largely non swiss people on the net. I don't know. Seems expensive, Tom.
Oh boy. He was asking where people though it would be faster to apply and I told him he can only apply where he is resident. If he lives in Canada, they won't accept his application in Switzerland.
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