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  #21  
Old 16.02.2011, 17:45
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

Wow. Good luck. Seriously.
The problem is that these decisions are mostly based on rules and as they have little power to check on everyone (whatever some say here I've heard so many stories -- from the horse's mouth, so to speak -- of people coming and going unchecked!) authorities really get pissed off when someone turns up with a request and a shady past -- in terms of overstaying. That said, I would definitely try to salvage whatever I could out of this mess.
Actually, I applied for a fiancee visa (not even a proper reunification) on my 180th day that year. They said no problem, I was covered from the day I applied to the day I got refused. Fortunately I was not and like two weeks later I got their conditional agreement (once the cake was cleared away I was to send them a copy of our certificate) and I could stay in CH. But I know for a fact that had I applied from another country, I couldn't have entered CH before I got their approval. So that was a slight difference.

Well, I do hope it will turn out OK. Please keep us updated.
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  #22  
Old 16.02.2011, 17:53
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

Thanks for the luck!! I hope it works.

I think I should have gone into the office in Basel and tried to apply from within Ch - it seems it does work for some but all the rules say you must apply from your country of residence. We have so many things planned over the next few weeks and if I don't get back it will mean a lot of money down the drain but it the long term a few hundred £'s and a few months apart aren't the end of the world.
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  #23  
Old 19.02.2011, 10:50
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

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Thanks for the luck!! I hope it works.

I think I should have gone into the office in Basel and tried to apply from within Ch - it seems it does work for some but all the rules say you must apply from your country of residence. We have so many things planned over the next few weeks and if I don't get back it will mean a lot of money down the drain but it the long term a few hundred £'s and a few months apart aren't the end of the world.
Yeah, that is the rule, though as with most of these regulations, I bet they have some small print somewhere. And whenever you contact them, the person sitting behind the desk usually just makes a decision. What you get depends on how they interpret things. Anyone I told my story to thought I was kidding.

Please let us know what happened.
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  #24  
Old 19.02.2011, 11:13
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

I'm here!! Person at passport control just stamped my passport and that was it. I guess the computer database doesn't hold the number of days or maybe it does start new at the beginning of the year??? Anyway - I was planning to go back to the UK on the the 4th of March for a family engagement party but I think I will just hold tight until my family reunion visa comes through. Or maybe go to the migration office in Basel and see if they can let me know if I should be able to continue to come and go? Right now I dont want to take any chances or call attention to myself.
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Old 19.02.2011, 20:51
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

ok i didn't realise all the shengen countries counted as one either so perhaps i had better get my things together and start applying for visas real quick or buy a ticket to london for a while?
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  #26  
Old 19.02.2011, 21:50
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

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ok i didn't realise all the shengen countries counted as one either so perhaps i had better get my things together and start applying for visas real quick or buy a ticket to london for a while?
I guess its best to start at the migration office - you might be able to apply from here and just travel outside switzerland to get the visa stamp in your passport. It seems people are able to do that - but for some reason I wasn't given that option.
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  #27  
Old 09.03.2011, 14:42
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

Just an update in case it helps someone else.

I have been coming and going between scotland and basel since october 2010 - as a visitor on my US passport. All in all for the last 6 months it has been over 90 days. WHen I came in on Monday they didn't even scan my passport. I was told at the swiss embassy that they don't get too concerned over american visitors.

As far as the visa/permit goes:
My husband is EU and has his permit. I applied for the longstay visa (family reunification grounds) on the 17th of Feb at the swiss embassy in London. I was told it would take 2 to 3 months and that I would have to come to London to get my passport stamped then enter basel on that visa - then go to the immigration office and register for my permit.

Well, I think the initial application made by my husbands employer did help. I got a letter 1 week later saying that my visa was approved. I was in BAsel and my next visit to the UK wasn't until March 4th so I thought I would go to london then. When I checked the mail on Friday before going to basel airport I had a letter from my husbands immigration lawyer saying I could go to the migration office in Basel to get my permit????? No mention of the visa. So I didn't go to london and today I went into the office, and got my permit!!! She did ask about the visa (saw the letter that the visa was approved) and just shrugged her shoulders and said 'normally you get the visa but we can just do it this way'. That was it! Hopefully no one at passport control at the airport will question the lack of a visa when I show them the permit.

I guess the best thing is to go in person and speak to someone!!!
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  #28  
Old 09.03.2011, 14:59
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

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My husband is EU
This is the key point.

For EU the rules are *very* different, and as the spouse of someone with EU residency, you are able to do it all 'in country' - and for Non-EU you would have had to leave and get your entry visa stamped.

As the spouse of a schengen-area resident, you pretty much can come and go as you please! You might even be able to hold dual nationality of whatever country he is from (and have two or more passports)...
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  #29  
Old 10.03.2011, 08:20
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

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My husband is EU
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This is the key point.
But in this case this is even more key:

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on my US passport
If the OP had been from India, for example, this would never have happened .

It does appear that USA and Canadians, and to some extent Australians and New Zealanders, are being treated more and more like EU citizens every day .
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  #30  
Old 16.03.2011, 19:56
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Schengen 90/180 rule - clarification please?

OK I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the '3 months within 6 months' rule of the Schengen agreement (although my own circumstances really only relate to Switzerland, but regardless...).

My understanding is that when you set foot within the Schengen area (e.g. Switzerland), the 6-month clock begins ticking, within which one is permitted to remain for a total of up to 3 months whether consecutive or not.

I'm also under the impression that, after the 6-month period, a new 6-month clock begins.

However, if someone were to visit the Schengen area for just a weekend (thus initiating the clock), leave, and then return 3.5 months later for the remainder of the 6 months, could that individual not continue to remain within the Schengen area for the next 3 months, thereby staying in the Schengen area for 5.5 consecutive months?

I'm sure there's something wrong with this logic, as this seems like an obvious loophole. But if not, let me provide some hypothetical dates:

Enter Switzerland 12 Nov 2010. Leave SW 15 Nov 2010. TOTAL = 4 days.
Enter Switzerland 09 Dec 2010. Leave SW 13 Nov 2010. TOTAL = 5 days.
Enter Switzerland 23 Feb 2011 until present.


Six months after the entry of 12 Nov 2010 would be 12 May 2011.
If this person were to stay until 12 May, the total number of days within the Schengen area would be 88 (9 for the visits, 6 for the remainder of Feb, 31 for Mar, 30 for Apr and 12 for May).

On 13 May, could this person renew their 6 months and stay for the next 3? If so, must he/she exit and re-enter the country?

A million thanks for anyone who can clear this mess up!
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  #31  
Old 16.03.2011, 21:24
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Re: Schengen 90/180 rule - clarification please?

The way I understand it (and I have absolutely no proof whether this is right or not) but it's 3 months in any 6 month period.

By your example: (Assuming 3 months = 90 days and 30 days per month as I'm too lazy to work it all out otherwise )

Enter Switzerland 12 Nov 2010. Leave SW 15 Nov 2010. TOTAL = 4 days.( Start of 1st 6 month clock which ends 12th May 2011. During this period not allowed to exceed 90 days)

Enter Switzerland 09 Dec 2010. Leave SW 13 Dec 2010. TOTAL = 5 days. (Start of a new 2nd 6 month clock ending 9 June but also continuation of the previous 6 month clock from 12 november ending 23 May. During this period not allowed to exceed 90 days up to 9 June NOR exceed the 90 day rule up to 12th May)

Enter Switzerland 23 Feb 2011 until present. (Start of a new 3rd 6 month clock which ends 23 August but may not exceed time allowed by other two visits.

Meaning:

Initial Clock Ending 12th May, 81 days remaining (90-9) means 14th May is when this clock ends thus can be ignored.

2nd clock ending 9 June, 85 days remaining (90-5) means 18th May is when your allowance for this period ends and must leave until 10th June)

3rd clock ending 23 August means if you return 10th June you have 5 days before your 90 days in a 6 month period are up and you must leave and not return before before August 24th when a new 4th clock would commence.

Someone may very well come along and blow this out of the water but that's what I've understood about it (not that I've ever spent much time studying it as it never affected me).

Realise I may not have explained it very clearly but hope it helps
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  #32  
Old 17.03.2011, 00:23
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

I tried the Language course thing. Didn't work. Needs to be minimum of 20hrs/ week
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  #33  
Old 17.03.2011, 00:34
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

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I have an idea, that from everything I have read seems totally within the rules.

I am US citizen traveling to Switzerland so I don't need a visa and I can go in and out of schengen and non schengen countries in Europe so long as I don't overstay the 90 days. I read that is is 90 days consecutive or combined in a 6 month period that I can stay in a schengen country.

So what if I travel to Lichenstein or Andorra, or monaco, or San Marino on weekends? Then for every day I spend outside the Schengen area that shouldnt count towards my 90 days within the Schengen area, that being Switzerland.

Will this work?

That way if we keep going out and in we can essentially stay up to 6 months so long as only 90 of our days are spent in a Schengen area.

Thought?

I can't speak for other countries, but I can tell you how the 90 day rule is applied to Visa Waiver travelers who think they can play that game when they come to the US.

People think if they pop out to Canada, Mexico, or the Bahamas and then come back, that they stop or reset the clock.

WRONG.

It becomes an issue of presence. Even though you are not overstaying your admission, you are showing that you are living (and possibly working) in the country without the appropriate visa. It also proves to immigration authorities that your ties to the US are stronger than your ties to your own country of citizenship.

Then you get deported, and that's no fun. Because then you'll never be able to go back to the country without a visa, which means you have to go to the embassy and (1) apply for a visa, (2) be ready to explain why you need it, (3) have proof that you won't overstay, (4) be able to pass scrutiny, and (5) accept that you may never get a visa.

If you intend to live or work in another country, it is best to play by the rules, get the appropriate visa from the get go, and save yourself a lot of trouble down the line.

I also have to ask you, as a US citizen, have you been paying your taxes? That will catch up with you eventually, also, if you haven't.
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  #34  
Old 17.03.2011, 01:01
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

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I tried the Language course thing. Didn't work. Needs to be minimum of 20hrs/ week
This is not 100% correct. Some full time language courses are recognised. Mine was 15hours a week (not including breaks) and gave me an L permit (and later a B permit as a working student).

Even working 15hours a week I believe is sufficient for a workers B permit (there is a thread where a lecturer got one with 15hrs a week stipulated) though that may depend on the actual job that you are doing/ canton. For crappy bar work I was told about 20 hours a week in my canton.
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  #35  
Old 17.03.2011, 09:09
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Re: Schengen 90/180 rule - clarification please?

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The way I understand it (and I have absolutely no proof whether this is right or not) but it's 3 months in any 6 month period.
Thanks Millso, I understand your points so no confusion

However, that's the first time that I've heard this rule. Can anyone confirm or refute it? I've been to a number of different websites, and searched pretty tirelessly throughout the threads (both here and glocals) and can't seem to come up with any definitive answer.

Does anyone know? Is it any 6 months or 6 months beginning only when you first arrive?

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  #36  
Old 17.03.2011, 09:31
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Re: Schengen 90/180 rule - clarification please?

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.
Does anyone know? Is it any 6 months or 6 months beginning only when you first arrive?
MY understanding is that it is from when you first arrive. NO sliding dates across to have any new start dates.

It makes it very hard for slow travelling tourists. eg: those who are travelling across Europe on their "lifetime" trip and could really use twice the time to see and travel, over what they are allowed - and the cost involved in having to jump out after those first 90 days, then back in again to continue the next 90 day period.
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  #37  
Old 17.03.2011, 09:34
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Re: Schengen 90/180 rule - clarification please?

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MY understanding is that it is from when you first arrive. NO sliding dates across to have any new start dates.
Cheers biff, that's how I interpreted it too.
So do you reckon that the hypothetical situation above is lawful?
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  #38  
Old 17.03.2011, 10:31
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Re: in order to not overstay my 90 days, will this work?

All the information I have seen have explained it as the maximum stay for non-EU passport holders is 90 days in any 180 day period. So there is a sliding window (the previous 180 days) and if you have been in the Schengen for 90 of the previous 180 days you are supposed to leave and not return until one of the days falls out of the window. For a continuous stay of 90 days that would mean being out for 90 days before the days start falling out of the sliding window.

Have a look here:
http://goeurope.about.com/od/europea...engen_stay.htm

HTH
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