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Old 02.01.2011, 18:32
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Transmission of multiple citizenships

Hello,
My wife & I are contemplating having a baby...No decision's been taken yet.
But in the event we do, between us, lie a number of citizenships which we don't know if we'll be able to transmit to our "new born child".
I am a US citizen & eligible for Spanish citizenship; I just need to do the paperwork before I receive it. My wife is Swiss, German and eligible for Italian citizenship -she also needs to do the paperwork.
According to our calculations, we might be in Canada for the next 1-1.5 yrs.
Can our child be registered with all the aforementioned embassies
I know that most of our citizenships are EU which don't differ much -very similar benefits and rights- so we're a bit confused! I also think that Canada follows the Jus Soli law... So will the child become Canadian?

I already lost track of counting the citizenships...
Cheers
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Old 02.01.2011, 18:55
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

I don't know the answers to your questions, but if indeed your kid is eligible for the Spanish/Italian citizenships, take care to do your homework in advance. I am not eligible for Irish citizenship, even though my mother is. If she had done the paperwork before I was born I would have been born to an Irish citizen. As it is now, even if she does her paperwork for herself, I was born to a non-Irish citizen.
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Old 02.01.2011, 19:20
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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I don't know the answers to your questions, but if indeed your kid is eligible for the Spanish/Italian citizenships, take care to do your homework in advance. I am not eligible for Irish citizenship, even though my mother is. If she had done the paperwork before I was born I would have been born to an Irish citizen. As it is now, even if she does her paperwork for herself, I was born to a non-Irish citizen.
That's a good point 10:30. I never looked at it from that angle. Yes, you're absolutely right, there are restrictions on eligibility post-birth etc.
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Old 02.01.2011, 19:29
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

My daughters are both tri-national (US/CA/CH), so multinational is possible.

Tom
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Old 02.01.2011, 19:56
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

For the most part, I don't think countries care whether other citizenships are involved. Germany might be an exception to that statement though. You will have to check what each country requires for transmission of citizenship.

In the case of US citizenship, I believe a child is a citizen at birth if one of the following is true:
  1. If the child is born in the US.
  2. If both of the parents are citizens, the child is a citizen.
  3. One of the parents is a citizen, and the parent lived in the US for a long enough period of time (5 years?).
I'm probably missing caveats and such though.

In Europe, birth location tends to matter less and ancestry more. I have heard of people applying for citizenship because of the nationality of their grandparents. Don't remember the country though, perhaps Spain or Italy.

At this point I don't think that there is a huge difference between EU citizenships from the practical standpoint of work permits and being treated well when traveling.

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That's a good point 10:30. I never looked at it from that angle. Yes, you're absolutely right, there are restrictions on eligibility post-birth etc.
I think that may be another difference between the US and Europe. In US you are a citizen by birth or not, the paperwork is just a recognition of the fact.
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:02
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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I don't know the answers to your questions, but if indeed your kid is eligible for the Spanish/Italian citizenships, take care to do your homework in advance. I am not eligible for Irish citizenship, even though my mother is. If she had done the paperwork before I was born I would have been born to an Irish citizen. As it is now, even if she does her paperwork for herself, I was born to a non-Irish citizen.
Even though she does her paperwork you won't be able to become naturalized Irish? Is that what you mean?

Sorry to be off track , I'm just wondering about this citizenship matter.
I've always been interested in being Italian as my grand ma was.

Well just waiting to screw up my courage and go to the italian embassy
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:07
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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At this point I don't think that there is a huge difference between EU citizenships from the practical standpoint of work permits and being treated well when traveling.
Compulsory army service in some countries might be another factor to consider.
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:13
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

I have to say that I'm quite against the collection of passports just because you are "eligible". But whatever, that's your choice.

If your child is born in Canada then they will be Canadian.

And do you particularly feel Spanish? Do you speak Spanish? Same for your wife about Italian. If you're already one or two generations away from Spain/Italy, how Spanish or Italian are your children going to feel? How Spanish/Italian are you going to bring them up?

I'm sure you're children will love to have to renew 6 passports, register with 6 embassies, register their marriages with 6 embassies, never mind potential tax implications, name changes, their own children, identity issues, etc.

What are they going to tell people: "I'm American, Swiss, German, Canadian, Spanish, Italian".
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:14
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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Compulsory army service in some countries might be another factor to consider.
I thought that compulsory service was typically only required if you are living in the country in question. But I certainly don't know for sure.
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:38
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

Of the EU countries mentioned, is there one that you have particular ties to - that, for example, they'll be traveling to to visit their grandparents? Similarly did you grow up in the US, are your parents still there?

I'd probably do Canada (since you are living there) and one EU country for sure, but beyond I think it depends on what countries they will feel close to.
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:46
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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I'm sure you're children will love to have to renew 6 passports, register with 6 embassies, register their marriages with 6 embassies, never mind potential tax implications, name changes, their own children, identity issues, etc.
The lawyers in all the different countries too … and as 2x2 already mentioned, don't count on countries will remaining as lenient as today with regard to military service. Having rights in many countries but only obligations in one might not work forever, for Americans citizens it is sometimes already challenging today.

Martin
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Old 02.01.2011, 20:57
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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I have to say that I'm quite against the collection of passports just because you are "eligible". But whatever, that's your choice.

If your child is born in Canada then they will be Canadian.

And do you particularly feel Spanish? Do you speak Spanish? Same for your wife about Italian. If you're already one or two generations away from Spain/Italy, how Spanish or Italian are your children going to feel? How Spanish/Italian are you going to bring them up?

I'm sure you're children will love to have to renew 6 passports, register with 6 embassies, register their marriages with 6 embassies, never mind potential tax implications, name changes, their own children, identity issues, etc.

What are they going to tell people: "I'm American, Swiss, German, Canadian, Spanish, Italian".
Having several passports does not mean that you have to register marriages etc with all embassies. It would only become an issue in the future if there was a name change involved when renewing a passport.

One does not need to have a continually current passport to be a citizen of that country (or any passport)

Does it matter what country the children grow up saying they are from? We have many, many children growing up in countries apart from their birth country, perhaps several countries as parents transfer around. Who knows which country , if any, will be the one that someone grows up feeling attached to. The term "global citizen" probably applies more to those who do not have a strong attachment to any one country. What I see amongst young children at school in any country, is that they are very proud of being part of as many countries as possible, even creatively adding extras at times.

Personally, if I had the opportunity to register my own offspring as residents of more than one country, I would do it - in the future that may make it easier for them to move for education and careers, so kind of like an insurance for them even if the rules change in the meantime.
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Old 02.01.2011, 21:32
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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Even though she does her paperwork you won't be able to become naturalized Irish? Is that what you mean?

Sorry to be off track , I'm just wondering about this citizenship matter.
I've always been interested in being Italian as my grand ma was.

Well just waiting to screw up my courage and go to the italian embassy
Yes, that is exactly what I mean. I was born to a non-Irish citizen, therefore I am not eligible to be Irish.

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Compulsory army service in some countries might be another factor to consider.
"To consider" meaning "to find out the rules." For example, until recently Germany had compulsory military service for resident male citizens. Fortunately though, the dual citizens were allowed to choose which country they would like to do their service in, even if the other country's military was not obligatory. The dual US/DE citizens had a pretty easy choice.

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I have to say that I'm quite against the collection of passports just because you are "eligible". But whatever, that's your choice.
And I have to say that I'm quite against the use of polemics. But whatever, that's your choice.

As Biff said, having multiple passports opens multiple doors. From education possibilities to fitting in in society to EU-sponsored career development opportunities, I've felt my lack of an EU passport at every turn. With an EU passport, my life would certainly have been much much much easier.

Maybe your children will stay in their home town all their lives. Or Maybe they will want to go out and be part of our world that seems to be getting smaller all the time. Your children can always renounce their extra citizenships later (some dual-citizenship laws also require a choice at 18), so why limit their possibilities at birth?
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Old 02.01.2011, 23:17
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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Having several passports does not mean that you have to register marriages etc with all embassies. It would only become an issue in the future if there was a name change involved when renewing a passport.
You either have to do it at the time of your marriage or later on. If you do it later on it becomes more complicated. And if you are not going to keep your civil status updated what's the point of having all these extra nationalities?

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Does it matter what country the children grow up saying they are from?
It's part of who you are. People ask all the time were each other is from, what is their heritage, who are they, who is your family, etc, etc.

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We have many, many children growing up in countries apart from their birth country, perhaps several countries as parents transfer around. Who knows which country , if any, will be the one that someone grows up feeling attached to.
Sure there are. My husband & are are two such people. And it's not easy. It's not just about what country you grow up feeling attached to is which country feels you belong to them. Dont' underestimate the child's sense of belonging to some place.

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The term "global citizen" probably applies more to those who do not have a strong attachment to any one country. What I see amongst young children at school in any country, is that they are very proud of being part of as many countries as possible, even creatively adding extras at times.
Global citizen is a fantasy. It doesn't exist in the real world today.

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Personally, if I had the opportunity to register my own offspring as residents of more than one country, I would do it - in the future that may make it easier for them to move for education and careers, so kind of like an insurance for them even if the rules change in the meantime.
What about their own sense of self & where they belong in the world? Is that not important? I have no problem with people having more than one nationality, ethnicity or attachment especially those related to their parents or where they live. But to throw random passports at them because you can is not fair to the child.


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And I have to say that I'm quite against the use of polemics. But whatever, that's your choice.
Ok, so don't use them.

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As Biff said, having multiple passports opens multiple doors. From education possibilities to fitting in in society to EU-sponsored career development opportunities, I've felt my lack of an EU passport at every turn. With an EU passport, my life would certainly have been much much much easier.
So basically one EU citizenship would have been good for you. You don't need 6 countries of citizenship.

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Maybe your children will stay in their home town all their lives. Or Maybe they will want to go out and be part of our world that seems to be getting smaller all the time. Your children can always renounce their extra citizenships later (some dual-citizenship laws also require a choice at 18), so why limit their possibilities at birth?
Why confuse them with random identities that don't mean anything to you never mind to them? It's not easy growing up bi cultural in a third country. It's not easy trying to figure out where you belong in the world. Why burden your children with 6 false identities before they are even born?

Even before this couple goes off to get Spanish & Italian nationality I think the kids will have plenty of opportunities that you are all so worried about with 1 EU, 1 North American & 1 Swiss citizenship.

And PS, you seem to be traveling and leaving your own country and you've already said you have one passport. I see people all over the world traveling and experience the world with out needing to collect passports.
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Old 02.01.2011, 23:39
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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You either have to do it at the time of your marriage or later on. If you do it later on it becomes more complicated. And if you are not going to keep your civil status updated what's the point of having all these extra nationalities?
...
It certainly opens up possibilities for the kids. An EU citizenship gives them the right to live anywhere in Europe should they decide to. US and Canadian citizenship allows them to live in those countries (although with the added burden of lifetime tax returns in the case of the US). All visa-free. That's nothing to be scoffed at.

You don't need to register your marriage if you don't want to with many citizenships (such as the US), unless you want to change a name on your passport.
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Old 03.01.2011, 00:18
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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It certainly opens up possibilities for the kids. An EU citizenship gives them the right to live anywhere in Europe should they decide to. US and Canadian citizenship allows them to live in those countries (although with the added burden of lifetime tax returns in the case of the US). All visa-free. That's nothing to be scoffed at.
You are missing my point. I'm not having more than one nationality. Between the two parents they already have 3 nationalities, 1US, 1EU (DE) and 1 CH and perhaps 4 if the child is born in Canada. I think with those there will be one or two doors open for them. But maybe not...

What's the point of adding two more on top of that? It's a burden on the children.

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You don't need to register your marriage if you don't want to with many citizenships (such as the US), unless you want to change a name on your passport.
That's for one country. These kids will have to look up & learn the implications of these things for 6 different countries.
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Old 03.01.2011, 13:54
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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I have to say that I'm quite against the collection of passports just because you are "eligible". But whatever, that's your choice.

If your child is born in Canada then they will be Canadian.

And do you particularly feel Spanish? Do you speak Spanish? Same for your wife about Italian. If you're already one or two generations away from Spain/Italy, how Spanish or Italian are your children going to feel? How Spanish/Italian are you going to bring them up?

I'm sure you're children will love to have to renew 6 passports, register with 6 embassies, register their marriages with 6 embassies, never mind potential tax implications, name changes, their own children, identity issues, etc.

What are they going to tell people: "I'm American, Swiss, German, Canadian, Spanish, Italian".
Frankly, I've got no family left in Spain, I've never lived in Spain and all I know in Spanish is Como estas but I do have family all over the continent.

I don't want to rush to a Spanish consulate one day in times of need and start yelling at them in English while waving my "Spanish passport" It is also a question of belongingness (or lack thereof).

I haven't considered the compulsory military service in any of the countries mentioned but wooohooo that alone is another thing to worry about

I'm not particularly interested in passport collecting, but you never know what happens in the next 20 yrs. The countries that allow visa-free for a Spanish or an Italian passport usually give the same privilege to a Swiss or a US passport...
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Old 03.01.2011, 14:38
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

I'd go for passports where your baby has family and might want to live.

My rugrat has British and Swiss passports and it's only the inefficient bureaucracy of the Italian consulato that leaves him without his final passport.

In the future, I'll only bother renewing the Swiss one. First passport is usually a pain in the butt whereas renewals are easier.

If I was you, I'd do US, Swiss and German and then keep the one up to date which is the cheapest
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Old 03.01.2011, 14:43
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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If I was you, I'd do US, Swiss and German and then keep the one up to date which is the cheapest
Well, if you plan to ever travel to the US, you MUST use a US passport to do so if you are a US citizen.

Tom
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Old 03.01.2011, 14:46
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Re: Transmission of multiple citizenships

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If I was you, I'd do US, Swiss and German and then keep the one up to date which is the cheapest
Nice, free market competition for consular services . Too bad this can not be done with all the other fees.
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