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  #21  
Old 29.07.2011, 09:39
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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I'm not sure what a Heimatschein is, but when I applied for my passport, I was told I must show the original Familienschein, which was issued from the Zivilamt of my Gemeinde. Is a Familienschein the same thing as a Heimatschein, just different terms used by different Kantone? If not, maybe the OP needs to get a Familienschein from the Signauer Zivilamt?
A heimatschein is a letter of origin, for example my kids were born in Kanton zurich in diferent cities, but the heimatschein comes from the Kanton were my husband was original from. And this comes from generations. I compare it best with the pedigree. It doesnt say where your are from, but where are your origins.
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  #22  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:05
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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I Don`t think so ,whats to gain for theme ? Have a good one to
Im not really sure. If you have other explanations for the denial im open to them.
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  #23  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:07
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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If I understood correctly you receive sozial help? have you ask them to help you in this matter? They should be interested in helping you with your documents, specially if you are swiss, you might be entitled to get extra benefits.
I hope all gets fixed soon for you, I know how is to be here without your id, I was here since sept '10 and I got the id until jun this year
Regarding the phone In my case a i bought a phone and a friend put the sim card on her name, it was prepaid of course. Do you know someone who yould do that for you?
Yes I do have socials help and they have done all they can to try to push this through. They have been helpful but say thier hands are tied.

As for the mobile phone, i do have a lebara prepaid. Im more talking about subscriptions or other services. They are always asking for ID and if its a CDN passport then the residents permit.
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  #24  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:23
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Heimatschein, nidderlasung, personnenstadt, on and on it goes it seems. Why so many papers needed.
Are we Canadians delusional? I have one piece of paper. My birth certificate. It gets me what I want whenever I want. Its the only paper that really matters.

It seems here you need 3-5 other papers to get anything done. Please correct me if im wrong.

Ill tell you what the main paper I have says.

Titled Polizeidirektion des Kantons Bern Dated 19 May 1987

Anerkennung als Schweizer Burger

gilt gleichzeitig als bestätigung des Bürgerrecechts

In Anwendung von art 57 abs Bst a des Bürgerrechtsgesetzes vom 29. September 1952 wird festgestellt dass nachfolgende Persons das Schweiyer Büurgerrecht besitzt

My name, address civil status at the time, nationality
Parents names
Heimatberechtigt Signau BE

Swiss Consulate Montreal

There is no expiry.

There is a word there close to Heimatschein but obviously not the same.

So once again this paper confirms I hold swiss citizenship. The only discrepancy is at the time I was obviously single, now im divorced. I still dont see how this would prevent from giving a passport or ID card.
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  #25  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:34
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

It's probably because they have to update the family book so to say. Do you have children from the marriage?, if so, it will be very important to them, they need to record the marriage, divorce, children, etc. in the register.
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  #26  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:35
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Swiss Authorities are like computer programmes. The person who made the rulings or wrote the programme expects a certain order of actions. Anything which is unexpected throws the whole thing out of gear. (Or, an example for those of us with communal washing facilities in our block of flats, try starting a fresh cycle with certain makes of washing machine when the previous user didn't let it finish its fun before forcing the door open).

Normally any change in marital status would, I believe, wander through the Swiss channels to your 'Heimatgemeinde' where it would duly be noted. If the authorities were not informed of your marriage, it will not be in your records and they probably have a hiccough when trying to fill in 'divorced'. I'm not saying this IS the case, but having talked to the guys at our 'Home Parish' when I wanted something which wasn't planned by Wilhem Tell, it wouldn't surprise me.
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  #27  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:50
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Swiss Authorities are like computer programmes. The person who made the rulings or wrote the programme expects a certain order of actions. Anything which is unexpected throws the whole thing out of gear. (Or, an example for those of us with communal washing facilities in our block of flats, try starting a fresh cycle with certain makes of washing machine when the previous user didn't let it finish its fun before forcing the door open).

Normally any change in marital status would, I believe, wander through the Swiss channels to your 'Heimatgemeinde' where it would duly be noted. If the authorities were not informed of your marriage, it will not be in your records and they probably have a hiccough when trying to fill in 'divorced'. I'm not saying this IS the case, but having talked to the guys at our 'Home Parish' when I wanted something which wasn't planned by Wilhem Tell, it wouldn't surprise me.
Ok this makes sense about computer programs. You are probably right and thats what they keep saying about 'divorced' as the hiccup. Although if there is a glitch can it not be superceded? And why would an ID be hitched on a change of civil status. do your ID cards tell whether you are married or single?

What is the difference between this Heimatgeminde, Heimatschein and the word used on my citizen paper- Hemeatberechtigt.
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Old 29.07.2011, 10:53
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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It's probably because they have to update the family book so to say. Do you have children from the marriage?, if so, it will be very important to them, they need to record the marriage, divorce, children, etc. in the register.
Yes I do . I have one son. I provided his passport information and birth certificate, but they didnt like it and want more information. His mother can provide that but is being uncooperative.

So I understand they have to update the family registry, however i still fail to see why this would prevent me from getting my own personal ID regardless of my civil status or children or not .
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  #29  
Old 29.07.2011, 10:57
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

My dear fellow, we paper-Swiss don't have to understand it. We just translate the words we need to apply, keep our noses clean, don't blot our copybooks, cross our fingers and hope that the Swiss Mills don't grind too slowly.
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Old 29.07.2011, 10:59
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

In order to issue your passport, you need your Heimatschein.

For example, I was naturalized as Swiss a couple of years ago. I had my official papers from Bern telling me I was a citizen, but until the local people (geminde) from my canton of origin (heimatort) issued the Heimatschein, I could not obtain my passport and ID card.
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  #31  
Old 29.07.2011, 11:04
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

And if you are living in Switzerland, the minute you have your Heimatschein they probably take it away from you again anyway. You give it in at the Parish Offices of the place you are living when you register there and get another piece of paper, much inferior, called a Schriftenempfangschein. This you should keep nice and safe as it is the proof that they have the Heimatschein.
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  #32  
Old 29.07.2011, 11:13
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Yes I do . I have one son. I provided his passport information and birth certificate, but they didnt like it and want more information. His mother can provide that but is being uncooperative.
What sort of information is it? If it is the mother's birth certificate, you'll have to convince the B.C. authorities of the good faith of your cause for requiring the certificate, assuming your wife was born in B.C. since you mentioned Vancouver (http://www.vs.gov.bc.ca/births/certificate.html).

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So I understand they have to update the family registry, however i still fail to see why this would prevent me from getting my own personal ID regardless of my civil status or children or not .
Because that is what the rules are, and because this is Switzerland. While I understand your situation and your predicament, and have every sympathy for you, you had a couple of years where you didn't bother with a Swiss passport, until you realised that being a Swiss citizen was a good way of obtaining medical help at the expense of the Swiss taxpayer. You now need to speak (in person) to the folks in your Heimatgemeinde.
BTW: Heimatgemeinde = the place you "come from" ('ancestral home' if you like - look up Swiss registers, and you will see that e.g. a company director is a Mr. Urs Nachname, from Hamlet-in-the Mountains, in Big City i.e. he lives in Big City, but his ancestors came from Hamlet-in-the-Mountains). Your cantonal and federal rights as a citizen technically derive from you being a citizen "from" a Swiss Gemeinde, not "in" a Gemeinde (that is where you live).
Heimatschein = the certificate that says that you are "from" that place, and are a citizen there. This needs to be deposited with the registry office (Einwohnerkontrolle) at the place where you live),
Heimatberechtigt = the fact that you are entitled to a claim of "being from" a certain place, but not the certificate itself.
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  #33  
Old 29.07.2011, 11:27
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Ok thanks for clearing it all up.

I never denied it was my screwup previously. At some point even though I told the swiss consulate of the marriage back in 92 it obviously didnt go through and get registered. Nevertheless it seems like this will be a long winding road to settle all this. It is also somewhat amusing at the same time to need this paper to get this paper in order to get this document which will give you this paper.

It seems though if the EX doesnt cooperate for what they want then I'm screwed for getting any one of these HeimatXXXX papers. Back to Canada I go if thats the case. There is a specific marriage certificate I went out to buy that has more information than they need. Her birth info, her parents and everything in between. The divorce certificate is a certified original as well. But I suppose thats not good enough for them.

But my spinal diagnosis is more important at this point.
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Old 29.07.2011, 11:30
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Ok thanks for clearing it all up.

I never denied it was my screwup previously. At some point even though I told the swiss consulate of the marriage back in 92 it obviously didnt go through and get registered. Nevertheless it seems like this will be a long winding road to settle all this. It is also somewhat amusing at the same time to need this paper to get this paper in order to get this document which will give you this paper.

It seems though if the EX doesnt cooperate for what they want then I'm screwed for getting any one of these HeimatXXXX papers. Back to Canada I go if thats the case. There is a specific marriage certificate I went out to buy that has more information than they need. Her birth info, her parents and everything in between. The divorce certificate is a certified original as well. But I suppose thats not good enough for them.

But my spinal diagnosis is more important at this point.
So what sort of information is it then that they want and that your ex does not provide?
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Old 29.07.2011, 11:35
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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So what sort of information is it then that they want and that your ex does not provide?
They want her actual birth certificate- Long form. They want her to provide another piece of paper with all kinds of information and that also states that she is divorced and now single. Not sure why I had to go out and pay for another original divorce certificate which certifies she is divorced. But who am I to argue. Thats what they want, no two ways about it.
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  #36  
Old 29.07.2011, 12:01
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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And if you are living in Switzerland, the minute you have your Heimatschein they probably take it away from you again anyway. You give it in at the Parish Offices of the place you are living when you register there and get another piece of paper, much inferior, called a Schriftenempfangschein. This you should keep nice and safe as it is the proof that they have the Heimatschein.
I never ever see`n mine it just goes its way from place to place .Right now its in Toronto ,me think

Last edited by cannut; 29.07.2011 at 12:19.
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Old 29.07.2011, 12:26
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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I'm not sure what a Heimatschein is, but when I applied for my passport, I was told I must show the original Familienschein, which was issued from the Zivilamt of my Gemeinde. Is a Familienschein the same thing as a Heimatschein, just different terms used by different Kantone? If not, maybe the OP needs to get a Familienschein from the Signauer Zivilamt?
Methink ,its the same cat different name.(I know ME is bad grammer but,more fun this way)
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Old 29.07.2011, 12:49
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Methink ,its the same cat different name.(I know ME is bad grammer but,more fun this way)
I think I will just go with the motto that if I have something that ends in 'schein' from a place that ends in 'einde' then all should be ok ... right? LOL

Is it all supposed to rhyme like that?
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