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Old 28.07.2011, 11:44
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Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Hi Folks,

Im hoping i can get some legal reps on here or someone who knows swiss law to give me some direction. I believe im being played by the swiss authorities.

My Story-
I am here in Switzerland just moved from Canada as a dual citizenship. I got my citizenship by way of my mothers birth. Even though registered, I never had a need to get a swiss passport until now. I am here to get medical help so Im trying to establish identity.

The paper I have is called "Anerkennung als Schweizer Burger. from the polizeidirecktion des kantons Bern.

I am being told numerous stories by all kinds of swiss departments for denial of my swiss passport. None of them make sense.

Reason being, my civil status is unclear. Im divorced but they dont have the proper paperwork even though i have supplied a marriage and divorce certficiate stamped certified and original to them. My ex wife is not cooperating to get the papers they want from her.

My point being, that whether I am single, married, divorced, children or not, does not change the fact that I am a swiss citizen, so how can they at the very least deny passport or ID card. I cannot get any kind of mobile subscription or other services without providing some sort of Swiss ID.

I understand they cannot issue the Heimalshein (??) and the niederlassung because of the civil status in question, but that does not change the fact I am swiss citizen and should be issued an ID card.

Can someone tell me my legal rights? I am here with social assistance so i cannot afford a lawyer to do this, but would like some direction. Perhaps I am wrong.

The Canadian Embassy has also called these Swiss authorities twice and each time they got a different answer. First time that its no problem second it is a problem.

Thank you for reading

Dave
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Old 28.07.2011, 11:54
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Don't remember all the details on my situation. But first I needed a "Personalstandsausweis" document to be officially recognized as a dual-citizen in which ever village my family was from. To register when I arrived I required a Heimatschein from the same location.

I believe I got all the official registration done when I was younger at the Consulate's office in Canada--don't quite remember though.

That sufficed a few months ago to get the passport (although I didn't originally plan on getting it).
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Old 28.07.2011, 11:57
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Yes I had done that two in 1988 I was officially registered. In between that time I have got married , had a child , and got divorced 4 years ago. For some reason even though I had told the swiss consulate in Vancouver of my marriage, they have no record of it or here in Switzerland, there fore all these problems.

It still doesnt dismiss the fact Im a citizen and need some sort of ID card here.
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Old 28.07.2011, 11:59
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Hi Folks,


ID.

I understand they cannot issue the Heimalshein (??) and the niederlassung because of the civil status in question, but that does not change the fact I am swiss citizen and should be issued an ID card.

Can someone tell me my legal rights? I am here with social assistance so i cannot afford a lawyer to do this, but would like some direction. Perhaps I am wrong.

The Canadian Embassy has also called these Swiss authorities twice and each time they got a different answer. First time that its no problem second it is a problem.

Thank you for reading

Dave
Are you sure about that ?I have to have a talk with Harper
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Old 28.07.2011, 12:00
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Yes I had done that two in 1988 I was officially registered. In between that time I have got married , had a child , and got divorced 4 years ago. For some reason even though I had told the swiss consulate in Vancouver of my marriage, they have no record of it or here in Switzerland, there fore all these problems.

It still doesnt dismiss the fact Im a citizen and need some sort of ID card here.
When you got it done in 1988, I'm assuming you should have been registered with a specific Gemeinde or Ortschaft or whatever they call it. You will have to go in person to that specific office to receive a copy of your "Personalstandsausweis" (it actually looks exactly like the heimatschein). If they can't locate it there, then you might have to start the whole process from scratch unfortunately.

Again, I'm no pro at this, so hopefully someone has better insight into your situation, but best of luck!
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Old 28.07.2011, 12:24
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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When you got it done in 1988, I'm assuming you should have been registered with a specific Gemeinde or Ortschaft or whatever they call it. You will have to go in person to that specific office to receive a copy of your "Personalstandsausweis" (it actually looks exactly like the heimatschein). If they can't locate it there, then you might have to start the whole process from scratch unfortunately.

Again, I'm no pro at this, so hopefully someone has better insight into your situation, but best of luck!
I believe I have the paper you are talking about. It declares that I am a Swiss citizen with the Gemeinde being from Signau BE. The Swiss consulate in Vancouver and Montreal both confirm and recognize me as a citizen.
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Old 28.07.2011, 22:50
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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I believe I have the paper you are talking about. It declares that I am a Swiss citizen with the Gemeinde being from Signau BE. The Swiss consulate in Vancouver and Montreal both confirm and recognize me as a citizen.
Now all you have to do is,register yourself in the Gemeinde of Singnau BE . And then they request the papers from Vancouver and as soon they have the paper you can apply for a passport .I think or you can apply for the passport in Vancouver .You also mentioned Montreal maybe your paper are there
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Old 28.07.2011, 22:55
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Hi Folks,

Im hoping i can get some legal reps on here or someone who knows swiss law to give me some direction. I believe im being played by the swiss authorities.

My Story-
I am here in Switzerland just moved from Canada as a dual citizenship. I got my citizenship by way of my mothers birth. Even though registered, I never had a need to get a swiss passport until now. I am here to get medical help so Im trying to establish identity.

The paper I have is called "Anerkennung als Schweizer Burger. from the polizeidirecktion des kantons Bern.

I am being told numerous stories by all kinds of swiss departments for denial of my swiss passport. None of them make sense.

Reason being, my civil status is unclear. Im divorced but they dont have the proper paperwork even though i have supplied a marriage and divorce certficiate stamped certified and original to them. My ex wife is not cooperating to get the papers they want from her.

My point being, that whether I am single, married, divorced, children or not, does not change the fact that I am a swiss citizen, so how can they at the very least deny passport or ID card. I cannot get any kind of mobile subscription or other services without providing some sort of Swiss ID.

I understand they cannot issue the Heimalshein (??) and the niederlassung because of the civil status in question, but that does not change the fact I am swiss citizen and should be issued an ID card.

Can someone tell me my legal rights? I am here with social assistance so i cannot afford a lawyer to do this, but would like some direction. Perhaps I am wrong.

The Canadian Embassy has also called these Swiss authorities twice and each time they got a different answer. First time that its no problem second it is a problem.

Thank you for reading

Dave
"HEIMATSSCHEIN" If the police have given you a paper which says you are a swiss citizen this is a temporary thing but doesn't give you a passport
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:03
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Now all you have to do is,register yourself in the Gemeinde of Singnau BE . And then they request the papers from Vancouver and as soon they have the paper you can apply for a passport .I think or you can apply for the passport in Vancouver .You also mentioned Montreal maybe your paper are there
If only it were that simple. Everything was sent to Signau from Vancouver.
However the ex wife doesnt cooperate in what she needs to send. Ironically the same information is all on the divorce certificate.

And the paper I have from the police is official and not temporary. Never has and never will be. Its from 1988 and it is still in effect. It is not a temporary document. The reason for denial of passport is that they dont have proper civil status in line with thier system. My point is, a passport should not have anything to do with civil status. Im still the same person I am in the passport whether im married, single divorced children or no children. Passport shouldnt change just because my civil status has changed. Makes no difference on my Canadian passport. Its a personal ID document not a declaration of civil status.
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:07
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

did you apply for the ID card? you don't need a passport. get the ID card. anyway, you're going to have to convince the authorities that your wife is not cooperating and that you can't wait for some hostile person to respond when she doesn't want to. then ask what your OTHER options are.
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:15
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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did you apply for the ID card? you don't need a passport. get the ID card. anyway, you're going to have to convince the authorities that your wife is not cooperating and that you can't wait for some hostile person to respond when she doesn't want to. then ask what your OTHER options are.
Ive tried ID card and passport. They refuse. The Vancouver consulate is trying to force her hand. I think its silly that they are looking for her birth certificate when all her birth info including that of her parents is on a the original marriage certificate I provided once again. The paper she is to sign saying that she is divorced is also a mystery as the stamped certified document of divorce from the provincial court is also provided to them. Doesnt make sense to me.
To me it seems like my rights are violated by denying me at the very least an ID card. Just cant seem to see it from their perspective.
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:19
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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If only it were that simple. Everything was sent to Signau from Vancouver.
However the ex wife doesnt cooperate in what she needs to send. Ironically the same information is all on the divorce certificate.

And the paper I have from the police is official and not temporary. Never has and never will be. Its from 1988 and it is still in effect. It is not a temporary document. The reason for denial of passport is that they dont have proper civil status in line with thier system. My point is, a passport should not have anything to do with civil status. Im still the same person I am in the passport whether im married, single divorced children or no children. Passport shouldnt change authorityjust because my civil status has changed. Makes no difference on my Canadian passport. Its a personal ID document not a declaration of civil status.
Excellent PointNow tell this to the swiss authorityI am not so sure about the Canadian passport there is lots of bureaucracy BS involved
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:23
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Excellent PointNow tell this to the swiss authority
Oh I have. So has the Canadian Embassy and a few others. They dont care. They are not budging.

This is why I was asking what my rights are. Cant afford a lawyer but perhaps consultation that im in the right or wrong.
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:25
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Ive tried ID card and passport. They refuse. The Vancouver consulate is trying to force her hand. I think its silly that they are looking for her birth certificate when all her birth info including that of her parents is on a the original marriage certificate I provided once again. The paper she is to sign saying that she is divorced is also a mystery as the stamped certified document of divorce from the provincial court is also provided to them. Doesnt make sense to me.
To me it seems like my rights are violated by denying me at the very least an ID card. Just cant seem to see it from their perspective.
Poor you,I feel really bad about that,I think
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:28
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

Yeah thanks but no worries. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact Im not actually Swiss born and speak little German and they resent it so they are playing this game. The only thing I can think of.

Thanks for your input and helps. Have a good night.
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:33
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Yeah thanks but no worries. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact Im not actually Swiss born and speak little German and they resent it so they are playing this game. The only thing I can think of.

Thanks for your input and helps. Have a good night.
I Don`t think so ,whats to gain for theme ? Have a good one to
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:37
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Now all you have to do is,register yourself in the Gemeinde of Singnau BE .
Indeed, that's how it works here.

Only your heimatort matters, deal with them directly (i.e. GO THERE!).

Tom
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Old 28.07.2011, 23:51
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

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Oh I have. So has the Canadian Embassy and a few others. They dont care. They are not budging.

This is why I was asking what my rights are. Cant afford a lawyer but perhaps consultation that im in the right or wrong.
If I understood correctly you receive sozial help? have you ask them to help you in this matter? They should be interested in helping you with your documents, specially if you are swiss, you might be entitled to get extra benefits.
I hope all gets fixed soon for you, I know how is to be here without your id, I was here since sept '10 and I got the id until jun this year
Regarding the phone In my case a i bought a phone and a friend put the sim card on her name, it was prepaid of course. Do you know someone who yould do that for you?
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Old 29.07.2011, 00:05
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

http://aso.ch/en/contact-1186917219

Ask theme for help,you also entitled for unemployment benefit
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Old 29.07.2011, 00:57
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Re: Swiss passport denial as swiss citizen-HELP

I'm not sure what a Heimatschein is, but when I applied for my passport, I was told I must show the original Familienschein, which was issued from the Zivilamt of my Gemeinde. Is a Familienschein the same thing as a Heimatschein, just different terms used by different Kantone? If not, maybe the OP needs to get a Familienschein from the Signauer Zivilamt?
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