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Old 19.08.2011, 16:41
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What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Hi all,

I'm a UK citizen who has been living in France for around two years without officially obtaining residency.

For the past 15 months, i've been working in Geneva (commuting from my home in France).

If i were to be made unemployed, where would i claim my unemployment benefits from? Would i first need to obtain official residency (carte de sejour?) in France before i would claim chomage? Or am i destined to be paid only UK unemployment benefits?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

Adrian
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Old 19.08.2011, 16:43
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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Hi all,

I'm a UK citizen who has been living in France for around two years without officially obtaining residency.

For the past 15 months, i've been working in Geneva (commuting from my home in France).

If i were to be made unemployed, where would i claim my unemployment benefits from? Would i first need to obtain official residency (carte de sejour?) in France before i would claim chomage? Or am i destined to be paid only UK unemployment benefits?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

Adrian
Thats an interesting one, what connections do you have to the UK?
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Old 19.08.2011, 16:45
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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Hi all,

I'm a UK citizen who has been living in France for around two years without officially obtaining residency.

For the past 15 months, i've been working in Geneva (commuting from my home in France).

If i were to be made unemployed, where would i claim my unemployment benefits from? Would i first need to obtain official residency (carte de sejour?) in France before i would claim chomage? Or am i destined to be paid only UK unemployment benefits?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

Adrian
Where have you been paying social contributions / unemployment insurance?
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Old 19.08.2011, 16:45
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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Hi all,

I'm a UK citizen who has been living in France for around two years without officially obtaining residency.

For the past 15 months, i've been working in Geneva (commuting from my home in France).

If i were to be made unemployed, where would i claim my unemployment benefits from? Would i first need to obtain official residency (carte de sejour?) in France before i would claim chomage? Or am i destined to be paid only UK unemployment benefits?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

Adrian

So you're a UK citizen living illegally in France, working illegally in Switzerland?

I think it's the UK dole line for you kiddo !!!



If you're not officially "anything" I can't see any obligation of either country to pay you anything..... instead, they might just ask a LOT of questions and get you into even more trouble.


The Swiss are not famous for Sympathy by the way



but that's only my two cents, hopefully someone else has had a better experience
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Old 19.08.2011, 17:04
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Please change your title, as you are not a Frontalier. If you had registered and paid taxes and social contributions in France, where you live, you would be entitled to unemployment in France.
A bit late for that, sorry. The UK won't pay you unemployment unless you go back.

Not only you can be in big trouble, but also your employer for employing you on the black. Lesson learnt (hard, sorry).
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Old 19.08.2011, 17:10
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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If you had registered and paid taxes and social contributions in France, where you live, you would be entitled to unemployment in France.
A bit late for that, sorry. The UK won't pay you unemployment unless you go back.

Not only you can be in big trouble, but also your employer.
The Question is did the OP actually leave the UK, he may become unemployed & be faced with a huge tax bill.
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Old 19.08.2011, 17:17
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Sorry just don't follow your post- could you re-phrase that, thanks.
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Old 19.08.2011, 17:20
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Euroskier why, if I may ask, did you not register as living in France? Its not as if there are restrictions about a UK citizen living in another EU country.
I presume you have not submitted any French tax returns or made any other contributions to the French authorities (as you would need a social security number). Why would you think France would therefore pay you unemployment benefits?
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Old 19.08.2011, 17:24
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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Sorry just don't follow your post- could you re-phrase that, thanks.
Well unless he permanently 'left' the UK, there is a very good chance he is still liable for UK taxes on his world wide income.

The Op has probably not even been working in CH for a full UK tax year, & is thinking he might be entitled to UK unemployment pay. It sounds like he has been temporally absent so is still 'ordinarily' UK tax resident.

Did he tell the revenue he was leaving to permanently abroad, did he break any ties with the UK?
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Old 19.08.2011, 17:51
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

OK I see. So when he goes to sign on they will say 'what have you been doing for the past couple of years son?' and he'll say 'well I've been working in CH and living in FRance'. 'OK then, you are entitled to un-employment in FRance where you've been contributing taxes and social then'

or perhaps 'welcome back, the more the merrier' - and idiots like us will pay your bills.
I feel quite old and reactionary all of a sudden, hate it.
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Old 19.08.2011, 18:10
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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or perhaps 'welcome back, the more the merrier' - and idiots like us will pay your bills.
I feel quite old and reactionary all of a sudden, hate it.
letters@dailymail.co.uk

HTH
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Old 19.08.2011, 18:12
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

I know, but I am not yet 'disgusted from Tonbridge'
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  #13  
Old 19.08.2011, 18:30
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Crikey, lots of assuming going on here.

Why not wait until he he answers the relavent question before applying the flames? That is

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Where have you been paying social contributions / unemployment insurance?
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Old 19.08.2011, 18:48
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Hello,



I think he has done a runner because Odile is going to shop him to the authorities

If the guy is using the term frontalier correctly then he should have a G Permit which would mean he would have some deductions at source, here in Switzerland.

But as already mentioned maybe we should let him speak for himself - if he ever comes back.

Regards

John
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Old 19.08.2011, 18:57
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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For the past 15 months, i've been working in Geneva (commuting from my home in France).

If i were to be made unemployed, where would i claim my unemployment benefits from? Would i first need to obtain official residency (carte de sejour?) in France before i would claim chomage? Or am i destined to be paid only UK unemployment benefits?
Lots of people have made lots of assumptions on this thread, and I'll make a few of my own. I'll assume that you're doing everything above-board and legit, but don't quite understand French residency rules. This means that you are living (legally) in France, that you're employed (legally) by a Swiss employer, and that you possess a Swiss frontalier permit (G-permit).

I'll also assume that you're paying tax on your salary, to the French tax authorities, and that the Swiss social charges are withheld from your paycheque.

Finally, I'll assume that if you do become unemployed, you won't automatically move back to the UK, but will continue to reside in your house in France. The problem of tax residency that fatmanfilms is alluding to thereby disappears, at least for the sake of this argument.

If you've done all of this, there's no need to establish residency formally, eg with a carte de sejour. As an EU citizen, you don't need to possess a carte de sejour in order to live in France. Making yourself known to the tax authorities and paying tax in France is enough to have established yourself as a French tax resident.

If all the above is true, you have unemployment rights that are governed by the bilateral frontalier treaties. You can read about them, and a wealth of other frontalier-related issues, here:

http://www.frontalier.org/emploi-sui...mage-total.htm
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Old 19.08.2011, 19:09
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

There is superfluous information here.

The fact is that registering in France as a UK (EU) citizen is not obligatory anymore.

So the simple question is: where does a frontelier collect unemployment from: France or Switzerland? I think the answer in France.
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Old 19.08.2011, 19:12
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Hello Mr. Village Idiot,

I am not sure that you can stay in France long term with a carte de sejour. I used to live and work there before moving to Switzerland and I was told by my town hall that I would have to register for a carte de sojourn after 3 months. After this period I was considered as a semi permanent resident.

I was obviously on the radar as I was working and as a good honest boy paying my taxes!

Regards

John

Last edited by JohnC; 19.08.2011 at 19:13. Reason: mistake first line I am not sure that you can stay in France long term without a carte de sejour
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Old 19.08.2011, 19:15
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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Hello Mr. Village Idiot,

I am not sure that you can stay in France long term with a carte de sejour. I used to live and work there before moving to Switzerland and I was told by my town hall that I would have to register for a carte de sojourn after 3 months. After this period I was considered as a semi permanent resident.

I was obviously on the radar as I was working and as a good honest boy paying my taxes!

Regards

John
Registration is no longer necessary.
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Old 19.08.2011, 19:15
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

Perhaps a good idea to look for a job in France now, before becoming unemployed and register all properly. And then hopefully it will all work out for the best. Bonne chance.
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Old 19.08.2011, 19:29
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Re: What happens when a Frontalier becomes unemployed?

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Finally, I'll assume that if you do become unemployed, you won't automatically move back to the UK, but will continue to reside in your house in France. The problem of tax residency that fatmanfilms is alluding to thereby disappears, at least for the sake of this argument.
Of course that's another assumption, rather than fact.
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