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Old 24.10.2011, 20:45
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B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

this question might have been answered in the forum already...but anyway.
Does anyone know if changing canton will re-set the time counting to change from a B-EU permit to a C permit?

thanks
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Old 24.10.2011, 21:23
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

I don't know if it has already been answered but yes in my case it did... my first year was in zurich, so the counter went down to zero when i changed to vaud and i got my C permit in six years. it wasn't the slowness of vaud (compared to zurich efficiency), i was told that I had to wait a year when i showed up at the five-year mark.
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Old 25.10.2011, 11:31
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

Also, a warning from someone who has just gone through it...

All B-permits are not created equal. Those of us on Ausbildung B permits (for students and post-docs) cannot count those years toward a C-permit (at least in Zürich) unless they are followed by two years on a different B permit. So, if you change, as in get married to a Swiss person, change your permit to reflect that.

If you don't your clock resets when you get married. I've been here for five years, married for three, but because I was advised by the Kreisburo NOT to change my permit, I've only been here for three years for the purposes of applying for a C permit. Had I changed my B permit three years ago to be dependent on my husband, I would get the C.

Now, instead, I have to apply for the passport. *sigh.*
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Old 25.10.2011, 16:19
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Also, a warning from someone who has just gone through it...

All B-permits are not created equal. Those of us on Ausbildung B permits (for students and post-docs) cannot count those years toward a C-permit (at least in Zürich) unless they are followed by two years on a different B permit. So, if you change, as in get married to a Swiss person, change your permit to reflect that.

If you don't your clock resets when you get married. I've been here for five years, married for three, but because I was advised by the Kreisburo NOT to change my permit, I've only been here for three years for the purposes of applying for a C permit. Had I changed my B permit three years ago to be dependent on my husband, I would get the C.

Now, instead, I have to apply for the passport. *sigh.*
All of that is true, but I can't see a reason for you to have to rush off and apply for the passport if you don't want to as your "sigh" implies. There is very little difference between the B and the C, especially for someone married to a Swiss person.
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Old 25.10.2011, 21:18
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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I don't know if it has already been answered but yes in my case it did... my first year was in zurich, so the counter went down to zero when i changed to vaud and i got my C permit in six years. it wasn't the slowness of vaud (compared to zurich efficiency), i was told that I had to wait a year when i showed up at the five-year mark.
Weird, I moved Cantons during my 4th year in Switzerland, and got a C on my 5th.
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Old 25.10.2011, 21:30
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Weird, I moved Cantons during my 4th year in Switzerland, and got a C on my 5th.
Same here - moved from Basel-Stadt to Zürich, and got my C permit just short of a year later. I'm EU, if that makes any difference.
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Old 25.10.2011, 21:33
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Same here - moved from Basel-Stadt to Zürich, and got my C permit just short of a year later. I'm EU, if that makes any difference.
I'm non-EU (although Americans and Canadians get special treatment when it comes to non-EU nationals applying for C Permits).
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Old 26.10.2011, 09:46
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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All of that is true, but I can't see a reason for you to have to rush off and apply for the passport if you don't want to as your "sigh" implies. There is very little difference between the B and the C, especially for someone married to a Swiss person.
Of course there is-a person looking for a job on a B permit can only be hired if there is nobody available to do the job with a Swiss passport or a C permit.

Big difference.
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Old 26.10.2011, 17:45
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Of course there is-a person looking for a job on a B permit can only be hired if there is nobody available to do the job with a Swiss passport or a C permit.

Big difference.
Legally, there is no difference. Legally there is no such priority. If the company is asking that, well, you'll get companies who only want males or only want people under a certain age etc. So there are other obstacles as well.

Anyway, I'm not arguing with you. Do what you want. It was the "sigh" that you posted that made me think you didn't want to apply for citizenship. And really there is very little difference between a B & a C if you are married to a Swiss.
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Old 27.10.2011, 10:10
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Legally, there is no difference. Legally there is no such priority. If the company is asking that, well, you'll get companies who only want males or only want people under a certain age etc. So there are other obstacles as well.

Anyway, I'm not arguing with you. Do what you want. It was the "sigh" that you posted that made me think you didn't want to apply for citizenship. And really there is very little difference between a B & a C if you are married to a Swiss.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but maybe it's because I'm not an EU national? As I understood I am no longer subject to quotas for non EU nationals, but I am still not in the priority list.

Obviously, I would love to be wrong on this one!
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Old 27.10.2011, 10:42
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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I'm not trying to start an argument, but maybe it's because I'm not an EU national? As I understood I am no longer subject to quotas for non EU nationals, but I am still not in the priority list.

Obviously, I would love to be wrong on this one!
You are indeed wrong. A(n unlimited) B permit holder is considered as "local workforce".
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Old 27.10.2011, 10:52
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

YEA! Does this also mean I won't have to go every year to get the dumb thing renewed? And, why didn't they let me get this one when I was married three years ago?
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Old 27.10.2011, 11:15
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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YEA! Does this also mean I won't have to go every year to get the dumb thing renewed? And, why didn't they let me get this one when I was married three years ago?
Renewal has nothing to do with it and is purely an administrative hassle. What permit did they give you three years ago?
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Old 27.10.2011, 11:50
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

I stayed on my original B permit with the ausbildung notation. I was told by the kreisburo that nothing changed when I was married, and I didn't think they'd be wrong.
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Old 27.10.2011, 12:20
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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I stayed on my original B permit with the ausbildung notation. I was told by the kreisburo that nothing changed when I was married, and I didn't think they'd be wrong.
Actually a lot of things change - as a spouse of a Swiss national (as long as you reside together) you are entitled to unlimited job market access (same thing as a standard B in fact).

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Also, a warning from someone who has just gone through it...

All B-permits are not created equal. Those of us on Ausbildung B permits (for students and post-docs) cannot count those years toward a C-permit (at least in Zürich) unless they are followed by two years on a different B permit. So, if you change, as in get married to a Swiss person, change your permit to reflect that.

If you don't your clock resets when you get married. I've been here for five years, married for three, but because I was advised by the Kreisburo NOT to change my permit, I've only been here for three years for the purposes of applying for a C permit. Had I changed my B permit three years ago to be dependent on my husband, I would get the C.

Now, instead, I have to apply for the passport. *sigh.*
I think there is a lot of misunderstanding going on there.
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Old 27.10.2011, 13:10
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Actually a lot of things change - as a spouse of a Swiss national (as long as you reside together) you are entitled to unlimited job market access (same thing as a standard B in fact).



I think there is a lot of misunderstanding going on there.
On the part of the Kreisburo? Yeah, I think so too. My husband read all of the relevant laws in German and couldn't find a rule where the Ausbildung B was considered different than any other B for the purpose of a C permit, but that's the way it goes.
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Old 27.10.2011, 13:47
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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On the part of the Kreisburo? Yeah, I think so too. My husband read all of the relevant laws in German and couldn't find a rule where the Ausbildung B was considered different than any other B for the purpose of a C permit, but that's the way it goes.
AuG art34 al5 was modified only as of January 1st 2011 to allow time spent on student B permits count towards a C permit after a two year period spent after the studies on a "normal" B permit.

Prior to that, student B permit time couldn't be counted towards a C permit.

So by all means prior to Jan 11 if someone had a student B permit it was in his / her full interest to update it both as far as accession to C permit and unrestricted accession to the job markets are concerned.

Post 2011 the second criteria still holds.
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Old 27.10.2011, 14:00
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

You should work at the Kreisburo, seriously, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I've spent the last three months going back and forth between the Kreisburo and Migrationsamt (the Kreisburo was the one who recommended I apply for the C permit in the first place!) and nobody knew what was going on. I paid the fee, was fingerprinted and photographed, resubmitted my family book, sent in my work contract and my husband's salary statements, a copy of our rental agreement, restated my children's names and birthdates, and got a statement that my criminal record is nonexistent.

All this, over three months and about 10 visits, and I finally got a rejection letter that was so unclear we still had to go back to the Migrationsamt to get it clarified (my husband, not me, my German is as nonexistent as the criminal record).

It was at the last visit (on Tuesday) that we were told by the Migrationsamt that I would have gotten the C if I'd switched my permit three years ago, and now you're telling me even that's not correct? (what's the "second criteria?")

Yikes.

So, as I understand, I've been on a "restricted" B permit and will now move to an "unrestricted" B permit. Is that correct?

Also, in your excellent sticky, you wrote "Since the 1st of Jan. 2008 foreign nationals who hold an annual work permit (B Permit) must no longer obtain permission to change job, profession or canton and to change from employment to self-employment. Note this applies only to permits delivered for long-term contracts, not to short-duration or job-specific (i.e. project) permits."

Is my B permit currently job-specific? And will that change? (it currently says Ausbildung mit Erwerbstätigkeit but I haven't seen the new one yet. As I understand, this means "studies with a salary" or something similar).

Sorry for my ignorance, but this is all pretty confusing to someone who can't understand the original wording.
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Old 27.10.2011, 14:14
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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It was at the last visit (on Tuesday) that we were told by the Migrationsamt that I would have gotten the C if I'd switched my permit three years ago, and now you're telling me even that's not correct? (what's the "second criteria?")
Ah - the second criteria is that prior to 2011 you should have had been advised to switch to a "married to Swiss partner" permit as time from that point onwards would have counted towards accession to a C permit in 5 years, whereas the student permit wouldn't have allowed that. In my own personal opinion you legally are still entitled to a C permit either five years starting from the marriage, or five years starting from your arrival in Switzerland (whichever comes sooner). This latter option wouldn't have been available prior to January 2011. Also, a "married permit" allows you free access to the job market so even now if a (non-EU) student gets married to a Swiss national it is in their full interest to update their status and make sure their permit reflects this right (this is what i was referring to as "second criteria").

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So, as I understand, I've been on a "restricted" B permit and will now move to an "unrestricted" B permit. Is that correct?

Also, in your excellent sticky, you wrote "Since the 1st of Jan. 2008 foreign nationals who hold an annual work permit (B Permit) must no longer obtain permission to change job, profession or canton and to change from employment to self-employment. Note this applies only to permits delivered for long-term contracts, not to short-duration or job-specific (i.e. project) permits."

Is my B permit currently job-specific? And will that change? (it currently says Ausbildung mit Erwerbstätigkeit but I haven't seen the new one yet. As I understand, this means "studies with a salary" or something similar).

Sorry for my ignorance, but this is all pretty confusing to someone who can't understand the original wording.
A "married permit" is as unrestricted as it can be - your permit should be changed asap to reflect this, as otherwise it might put off potential employers (considering usually Ausbildung mit Erwerbstatigkeit can be interpreted in various ways).
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Old 27.10.2011, 14:26
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Re: B-permit change of kanton affects time to get C permit?

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Ah - the second criteria is that prior to 2011 you should have had been advised to switch to a "married to Swiss partner" permit as time from that point onwards would have counted towards accession to a C permit in 5 years, whereas the student permit wouldn't have allowed that. In my own personal opinion you legally are still entitled to a C permit either five years starting from the marriage, or five years starting from your arrival in Switzerland (whichever comes sooner). This latter option wouldn't have been available prior to January 2011. Also, a "married permit" allows you free access to the job market so even now if a (non-EU) student gets married to a Swiss national it is in their full interest to update their status and make sure their permit reflects this right (this is what i was referring to as "second criteria").
I was also a bit irritated that they basically said, well, because of a mistake you made three years ago, even though we know you're married and even because of this rule (which was in the rejection letter-2 pages of rejection!) they said I'm not eligible until June 2013 (which would be the 5 year mark for marriage) instead of August 2011 (the 5 year mark for my entering Switzerland).

I remember asking the Kreisburo specifically if my permit would change due to marriage, and I was told no. And it didn't, even though the marriage was registered and recognized here.

Is there any way to contest the decision in this case?
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