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Old 16.11.2011, 12:28
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Changing employment on a B permit

Hello!

I received an informal employment-offer from a company in Geneva.

Scenario-

Me: I have a B permit (issued in Basel) which is locked with my current employer.
New Company: We want to apply for a new B permit for you. Please submit resignation to your current employer ( .. surrender your existing B permit).
Me: ... can I be sure of getting a B permit with you?
New Company: We can't assure you a B permit at this point of time. It will be a risk you will have to take. Geneva receives the largest number of B permit requests. On the bright side, we will be applying for the 2012 B permit quota... and I think you will have a good chance of getting your permit.

Situation : I am a non-EU citizen, B permit holder in Basel. The New Company is in Geneva. Plus, its an exciting position and I want to join.

Q:
- How long can I legally stay without a job in CH (after surrendering the existing B permit) ?

- Is there any other possible way I can ensure a B Permit ? I just do not want to leave my current employment without another guarantee .

HOW do I approach this situation?

Thanks to all forum members
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  #2  
Old 16.11.2011, 16:06
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

must be a tricky situation;

as far as question of staying is concerned, you could stay as long as Geneva is processing your permit application; however I think your company would need some sort of authorization to pay you , check with your company if they would have no problems paying you while your permit is being processed.

Now comes the question of getting a new permit in Geneva, much depends on your company and also your skills/qualifications (since your company will have to justify why there are hiring a non-EU). Since you have worked in CH so you make a good case.

On personal note, a friend of mine was in same situation e.g. applying for a new job and permit. He is non-EU, and was hired by some american company in Geneva (dont remember the name). They applied for permit in Geneva (he was in Lausanne before), after 3 months of processing Geneva refused; so the company withdrew the offer, and he went out of Switzerland.

Given that there is a lot of pressure for jobs in Geneva (30%+ frontaliers and many non-Swiss, non-EU workers), If I were you, I will think twice before giving up my Basel job.

Is the job in Geneva significantly better ? is it worth taking the risk ? what is your fall back, think about all this before deciding

good luck, and PM me if you need to talk in person about it (I am no lawyer or expert in immigration etc, just was speaking from personal experience)
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Old 17.11.2011, 01:41
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Thanks Newbee. I have another offer from a company based in Nyon / Vaud canton...and I believe they too must apply in Geneva for my B permit ??

Its encouraging to receive the employment offers, but I fail to understand why should any qualified professional spend his/her time waiting for a new permit UNEMPLOYED...

This is just not fair. Ideally, the transition from Company A to Company B should be smooth and without any gaps in employment.
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Old 17.11.2011, 06:11
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

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; however I think your company would need some sort of authorization to pay you , check with your company if they would have no problems paying you while your permit is being processed.
You think wrong. A company can not employ someone while the initial permit application is processed. No employment, no payment.
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Old 17.11.2011, 07:29
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

I would absolutely not give up my current job and take the risk that the new permit may not be approved. Even the timing will be a problem - one or two months without salary is a big loss....even if you don't end up having to leave the country...
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Old 17.11.2011, 09:55
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

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Thanks Newbee. I have another offer from a company based in Nyon / Vaud canton...and I believe they too must apply in Geneva for my B permit ??
.
That is in Lausanne, and things are a bit different in Lausanne.

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Its encouraging to receive the employment offers, but I fail to understand why should any qualified professional spend his/her time waiting for a new permit UNEMPLOYED...

This is just not fair. Ideally, the transition from Company A to Company B should be smooth and without any gaps in employment.
well they got to strike a balance between getting highly qualified people and amount of foreign workers, keeping in view the influx of EU workers they are specially hard on non-EU ones (except for technically qualified)

Best bet for your would be to continue in Basel, and switch jobs only when the other company could absolutely guarantee permit (which I doubt anyone would, but atleast you could take some sort of calculated risk).

More experience you have here, the better your chances are for getting permit on a different job
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Old 17.11.2011, 23:35
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Thanks for your responses - Newbee, Shorrick Mk2, swisspea.


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That is in Lausanne, and things are a bit different in Lausanne.
How is it different in Lussane. Please give more details.

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well they got to strike a balance between getting highly qualified people and amount of foreign workers, keeping in view the influx of EU workers they are specially hard on non-EU ones (except for technically qualified)
Hmm.. do you mean EU & non-EU applicants will be granted permits from a common work-permit pool ?

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Best bet for your would be to continue in Basel, and switch jobs only when the other company could absolutely guarantee permit (which I doubt anyone would, but atleast you could take some sort of calculated risk).

More experience you have here, the better your chances are for getting permit on a different job
I agree with you and swisspea on this one.
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Old 17.11.2011, 23:58
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Some more Qs to gather pros n cons -

- What exactly is the criteria for a successful B permit application

- Do large companies get preferential allotment of work permits?

Situation: I've been working in IT here for 2 years on L permit and I got my annual B permit only in Oct 2011.

If I DO accept the new employment in Geneva/Nyon:

- Could my ' new employer ' B permit application, be at any kind of disadvantage ? ( .. SINCE If I give up my ' old employer dependent ' 1 month old B permit. )

While B permit allows mobility for the non-EU category, how does one switch companies without a gap in employment ?

- Do ALL non-EU applicants face this dilemma ?

Thanks for all responses
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Old 18.11.2011, 02:15
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Reference: Post by Richard here in 2007. Access Full Post (by Shorrick Mk2) Here

I hold a Aufenthaltsbewilligung ( Long term B permit ) valid from Oct 31, 2011.

According to the above post, any change in canton and job + new application for a B permit by the new employer WILL be rejected

.. Is this is true even in 2011 ( as per latest laws ) ?

Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 18.11.2011, 08:41
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

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How is it different in Lussane. Please give more details.
Actually there is strictly no difference.

Quote:
Situation: I've been working in IT here for 2 years on L permit and I got my annual B permit only in Oct 2011.
In that case it is quite likely your permit is not tied into your current employer and you can switch cantons as you please.
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  #11  
Old 21.11.2011, 15:27
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

It sounds like a risky situation to me. I too heard of a couple of Non-EU B rejections from Geneva.
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Old 21.11.2011, 16:01
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

I'm having trouble believing that a new B Permit application cannot be processed for the new employer while a B Permit is already held via another employer in the other canton. If the permits are tied to employers rather than to people then this isn't logical. People aren't barred from working for more than one employer (are they?).

Plus, as a non-EU person, your permit isn't subject to quota limitations, only talent limitations.

I have to ask a further question, based on this image:


Under the Anmerkungen section, does anybody have their employer listed there? Or does it just say "with employment?"

So then, how is the permit tied to a particular employer? I'm just curious.
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Last edited by KeinFranzösisch; 21.11.2011 at 16:17.
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Old 22.11.2011, 21:17
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

I'm having trouble believing that a new B Permit application cannot be processed for the new employer while a B Permit is already held via another employer in the other canton. If the permits are tied to employers rather than to people then this isn't logical. People aren't barred from working for more than one employer (are they?).

Plus, as a non-EU person, your permit isn't subject to quota limitations, only talent limitations.

I have to ask a further question, based on this image:


Quote:
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Under the Anmerkungen section, does anybody have their employer listed there? Or does it just say "with employment?"

So then, how is the permit tied to a particular employer? I'm just curious.
In my B Permit, there is another Anmerkungen in the reverse of the card. It says:

your B permit start date is:

you are required to apply for a permit in case you want to get self employed.

Right now this B Permit is for working full time with XYZ company, Basel.
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Old 22.11.2011, 21:26
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Quote:
Right now this B Permit is for working full time with XYZ company, Basel.
Is that a fact or only your suupposition?
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Old 22.11.2011, 21:46
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

This thread is getting a little complicated.

If you have an unrestricted B permit, then you can change employers. I did this - I was previously on an L (dependent), and was lucky to find an employer that got me 'upgraded' to a dependend L with work permission.

A year later, at the same time that my L permit was changed to a B, I changed jobs. My new contract started just a few days after the changeover from L to B.

The thing is, the residency permit renewal was approved several months before the expiry date, so everything was in the system, so it was easy for my employer to phone up a month before I was due to start to check my status, and get a letter to confirm that I could work freely in Switerland from the 23rd of July or whatever that 'official' date was...

Soon as my L permit was changed to a B, I changed jobs. It was very easy to do - my new employer actually got a letter from the work authority (Arbeitsamt) that confirmed my work status (she kindly gave me a copy for my personal file in case I want to change jobs again as it is very handy to have with a prospective employer)...

But, I would not give up one job unless you are sure that the second one is confirmed - being unemployed is not fun - and I can't see why the employer needs to make you resign first - your B permit is valid (It's a residency permit, it doesn't get re-issued if you move employer), and all the new employer has to do is to clarify that your permit is valid and they are allowed to employ you.

My only advice is that the employers are really not familiar with all the varieties of work permission and what you are and are not allowed to do... so don't necessarily assume that anyone knows what they are talking about...especially if they are swiss or EU. Most people have no idea of the hurdles that Non-EU workers must jump to get residency and work permits...

The residency permit is one thing, the work permission is a separate thing. You don't renew your 'residency' permit when you change jobs. The residency permit renews each year on the same date.
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Old 22.11.2011, 21:53
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Reading back to the original post. To me, warning bells are ringing. I would definitely not give up my current job and risk having the B permit lapse. You don't have to give up one residency permit to change jobs.

Warning bells also ring when they talk about 'quotas'. There was only one year that the quotas ran out - it was just after the 2008 financial crisis when the quota numbers were drastically cut. Employers always blame 'quotas' when a work permit is rejected, but I know of employers who were rejected because they did not properly complete the paperwork, or because they wanted to offer a salary lower than the prevailing levels, and the authorities were not prepared to allow that...

A simple telephone call to the work permission authority (arbeitsamt in German, no idea what it is in French), by the prospective employer, should be able to confirm your status and whether you are free to change jobs.

We have done this several times at my current work. The authorities are happy to tell employers the rules. The last thing the authorities want is someone creating extra paperwork (or a headache!) that was not necessary...
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Old 22.11.2011, 22:03
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

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Is that a fact or only your suupposition?

Yes its a fact
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Old 22.11.2011, 23:39
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

So that means you have a time-limited B permit, tied to a project, and not an 'open' B permit....
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Old 22.11.2011, 23:41
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

yup that's the one swisspea
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Old 22.11.2011, 23:48
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Re: Changong employment on a B permit

Ah well....hope you can turn the situation around in your current job... what's your 'shelf life' ?
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