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  #241  
Old 20.06.2014, 18:34
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

Where can one read the final law that was passed?
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  #242  
Old 20.06.2014, 18:46
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

http://www.parlament.ch/sites/doc/Cu...t%20NS%20D.pdf
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  #243  
Old 20.06.2014, 21:21
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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It was said as much during the final debate by Ueli Leuenberger:
what does it mean? sorry, google translate does not help for these sentence.
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  #244  
Old 20.06.2014, 21:47
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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what does it mean? sorry, google translate does not help for these sentence.
He was suggesting that, for those who match the current 12-years criteria but maybe not clear with the new rules, they should submit the application asap, before the new law is effective.
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  #245  
Old 20.06.2014, 21:48
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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Is the C permit thing really such a big deal? Surely the vast majority of people who qualify for the residence requirements ( for normal not facilitated naturalisation) will already have a C permit anyway?
For me the requirement of C permit makes a difference.

In terms of residence requirement, in some point C permit is harder than nationality, especially for non-EU.

For C permit, EU/non-EU has to wait 5/10 years, and the last 5 years they have to live CONTINUOUSLY in Switzerland. Also, to keep the C permit, you cannot live outside Switzerland for more than 6 months. If you leave for 6 months and then come back, your permit restart from L or B.

On the other hand, for natualization, the former 12 years residence requirement is not continuous, meaning that you can leave Switzerland for some years and come back and your previous residence counts.

Another difference is for the foreign (same-sex) partners of Swiss citizen, especially non-EU. Currently, they can ask for regular naturalization after 5 years residence in Switzerland AND 3 years in partnership. For example, a guy came to Switzerland in 2009, became a same-sex partner of Swiss citizen in 2011, would be able to ask for natualization in 2014 with a B permit (5 years in Switzerland + 3 years in partnership). With the new C requirement, he will have to first wait until 2016 for the C permit (because C permit comes after 5 years marriage/partnership), which means that he will have to wait 2 years more for natualization.
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  #246  
Old 20.06.2014, 21:54
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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In terms of residence requirement, in some point C permit is harder than nationality, especially for non-EU.
You've just understood why the right wing accepted this compromise. A sign of your integration, if you ask me…
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  #247  
Old 21.06.2014, 02:00
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

An other 'nice' thing I just spotted in the new law is, that only B & C permits count towards the 10 years, L doesn't.
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  #248  
Old 21.06.2014, 02:50
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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An other 'nice' thing I just spotted in the new law is, that only B & C permits count towards the 10 years, L doesn't.
I believe you're wrong and that L permits do indeed count. In fact, all time on a permit of some sort is counted, but provisional admission is only counted as half. It is my understanding that the time counted as half is time spent on an F permit. C.f. LN 2014 Art. 33 §1c and https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...orlaeufig.html

C.f. LN 2014 Art 33 §1a 'Est pris en compte lors du calcul de la durée du séjour en Suisse tout séjour effectué au titre d’une autorisation de séjour ou d’établissement
and
C.f. LN 2014 Art 33 §1c 'Est pris en compte lors du calcul de la durée du séjour en Suisse tout séjour effectué au titre d’une carte de légitimation délivrée par le Département fédéral des affaires étrangères ou d’un titre de séjour similaire.'

An L permit or card constitutes an 'autorisation de séjour de courte durée,' thus satisfying LN 2014 Art. 33 §1a (if you are an EU national) or LN 2014 Art. 33 §1c if you're a third-state national. See https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...t/eu_efta.html (EU nationals) or https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...erausweis.html (3rd State Nationals)

LN 2014 : http://www.parlament.ch/sites/doc/Cu...l%20NS%20F.pdf
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  #249  
Old 21.06.2014, 20:30
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

Is this bloody law retroactive?
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  #250  
Old 22.06.2014, 07:02
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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Is this bloody law retroactive?
In what sense?
People who have already applied for/received naturalisation will not be denaturalised. The new law just affects those who will apply from ~20 September onwards.
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  #251  
Old 22.06.2014, 10:01
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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In what sense?
People who have already applied for/received naturalisation will not be denaturalised. The new law just affects those who will apply from ~20 September onwards.
I never applied for naturalization yet, but yes I am waiting for the application... so I was wondering if after 6 years I still have to wait 6 years or it would turn now to 4. My guess is 4.
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  #252  
Old 22.06.2014, 12:02
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

You guess correct.
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  #253  
Old 22.06.2014, 12:17
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

So this is a BIG problem for all the people in geneva with carte de légitamation, they have no chance of getting C permit, with this new law now no chance of citizenship. If you are wondering there are tons of people with carte de légitamation in geneva
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  #254  
Old 22.06.2014, 19:56
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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So this is a BIG problem for all the people in geneva with carte de légitamation, they have no chance of getting C permit, with this new law now no chance of citizenship. If you are wondering there are tons of people with carte de légitamation in geneva
If I'm not mistaken, aren't such cards only issued to people with various immunities or diplomatic statuses? Given therefore that such people are likely to attend international schools, not integrate with the locals etc, it seems only logical not to allow them to naturalise.
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  #255  
Old 22.06.2014, 20:13
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

As far as I know carte de legitimisation didn't get you any kind of Swiss naturalisation rights previously, did it? It's for diplomats and their families working at various embassies, NGO's, etc. No matter how many years they put in at their workplace it wouldn't have counted towards Swiss citizenship.

If they want Swiss citizenship, then they'll have to find new jobs in the non-diplomatic areas and put in the necessary years/work to qualify. Just like everyone else does.
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  #256  
Old 22.06.2014, 21:46
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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As far as I know carte de legitimisation didn't get you any kind of Swiss naturalisation rights previously, did it? It's for diplomats and their families working at various embassies, NGO's, etc. No matter how many years they put in at their workplace it wouldn't have counted towards Swiss citizenship.

If they want Swiss citizenship, then they'll have to find new jobs in the non-diplomatic areas and put in the necessary years/work to qualify. Just like everyone else does.
Nope they are allowed to apply for naturalisation in their canton of residence under the same conditions as anybody else at the moment. Unless there is an exception for them then under the new system they will no longer be eligible.

http://www.vpb.admin.ch/deutsch/doc/64/64.23.html
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  #257  
Old 23.06.2014, 11:16
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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If I'm not mistaken, aren't such cards only issued to people with various immunities or diplomatic statuses? Given therefore that such people are likely to attend international schools, not integrate with the locals etc, it seems only logical not to allow them to naturalise.


Don't forget there are different types of "carte de legitimisation". For example, type ”E” which gives almost no diplomatic benefits (educational grant, home leave, etc.), so such people live in Geneva as any other ordinary people – their children go to local schools, they get normal Geneva plate numbers, etc. The new immigration law is very bad news for these people.

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If they want Swiss citizenship, then they'll have to find new jobs in the non-diplomatic areas and put in the necessary years/work to qualify. Just like everyone else does.


They can not apply for jobs outside of diplomatic areas , as “carte de legitimation” does not give right to work in private sector.

Last edited by Rustem; 23.06.2014 at 12:46.
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  #258  
Old 29.07.2014, 22:41
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

any news on referendums? will it pass without a final vote or not?
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  #259  
Old 30.07.2014, 13:04
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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any news on referendums? will it pass without a final vote or not?
I haven't seen anything in the news regarding a referendum; as it is, the waiting period ends on 9 October, which is when the new law will come into effect unless a referendum is called.

Link
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Old 30.07.2014, 19:25
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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I haven't seen anything in the news regarding a referendum; as it is, the waiting period ends on 9 October, which is when the new law will come into effect unless a referendum is called.

Link
Thanks for the link showing that the deadline for a referendum to be called is 9 October, but is that actually when the law would go into force? In the text of the law itself (Art. 52, paragraph 2), it is stated that the Federal Council will determine the date on which the law takes effect, which I read as meaning that while the effective date could be as early as 9 October, it could also be set for a (slightly) later date.


Final Text of the 2014 Citizenship Law (in Italian):
http://www.parlament.ch/sites/doc/Cu...e%20NS%20I.pdf
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