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  #21  
Old 14.11.2012, 14:27
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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JC, me and my wife are both EU citizens and have C permits. Wife has been here lot longer than me (30+ citizenship years) and is fully localified.

Can law abiding people like us get kicked out of Switzerland in the future? Would it be safer if my wife at least gets her red pass to cement our position here?
Good question Tiger.

Anything can happen But I honestly think you would not get kicked out ... even if you bomb Bern or take out a Bundesrat. Your backside would end up in jail making little Alps out of big Alps. As long as you keep your nose clean, there should be no problem... with or without the red pass.

However, to cement your stay, yes. Obtaining the citizenship would be a step in the right direction. Why would you not want to do the family package deal together? Wait out your required time and do it together... how romantic
JC
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  #22  
Old 14.11.2012, 14:35
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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Good question Tiger.

Anything can happen But I honestly think you would not get kicked out ... even if you bomb Bern or take out a Bundesrat. Your backside would end up in jail making little Alps out of big Alps. As long as you keep your nose clean, there should be no problem... with or without the red pass.

However, to cement your stay, yes. Obtaining the citizenship would be a step in the right direction. Why would you not want to do the family package deal together? Wait out your required time and do it together... how romantic
JC
Sounds nice but my written German is tragic
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  #23  
Old 14.11.2012, 14:38
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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Sounds nice but my written German is tragic
Well, then that is something you will NEED to work on Some Gemeinde demand results to an official language test. I think it is B2. The current requirements will be on a checklist that you receive from the Gemeinde for the asking.
JC
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Old 14.11.2012, 19:57
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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Help me understand this: if this law passes, people like me are going to get screwed?

I'm non-EU. I lived in Lausanne for 6 years as PhD student with a special kind of B permit. Those years didn't count for C permit but did count for citizenship. After that I lived another 1 year in Lausanne with the normal work B permit. That's a total of 7 years counted toward citizenship.

Then we left Switzerland and stayed in the US for 2 and half years.

We returned to Switzerland in 2010; this time started living in Zurich. The first 2 years we had L permit, again not good for getting C permit but useful for citizenship. Now we have work B permits.

So now I have 9 years of lawful residence in Switzerland and only few months of it count for C permit. With the old law I could get citizenship in 3 years but if I understand correctly, if this new law passed I'll have to wait another 8 years before I get a C permit to be eligible for citizenship? That would make it a total of 17 years!! Tell me it is not as bad I think
In case you live in the town ZH, you'll need 6 years at least from the time you moved in. As pointed out above, it is more complicated if you move out and come back into CH.
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  #25  
Old 14.11.2012, 20:38
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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In case you live in the town ZH, you'll need 6 years at least from the time you moved in. As pointed out above, it is more complicated if you move out and come back into CH.
Not unless the new law passes in its current blueprint form:

http://www.ejpd.admin.ch/content/dam...ntw-bueg-f.pdf

Art. 9 Conditions formelles

La Confédération octroie l’autorisation fédérale de naturalisation uniquement si,
lors du dépôt de la demande, le requérant:
a. est titulaire d’une autorisation d’établissement, et
b. apporte la preuve qu’il a séjourné en Suisse pendant huit ans, dont l’année
ayant précédé le dépôt de la demande.


and

Art. 18 Durée de séjour cantonale et communale
1
Si la législation cantonale prévoit une durée de séjour minimale, celle-ci ne peut
dépasser trois ans.

2
Le canton et la commune dans lesquels la demande de naturalisation a été déposée
restent compétents lorsque le candidat à la naturalisation transfère son domicile dans
une autre commune ou un autre canton.
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  #26  
Old 18.11.2012, 12:27
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And are they actually going to discuss citizenship after 8 years in the Winter session ? All I can find on the programme is :
Friday 14th December:

208/
06.485
n
Pa.Iv. Fraktion V. Keine Einbürgerung ohne vorher erteilte Niederlassungsbewilligung
Iv.pa. Groupe V. Pas de naturalisation sans obtention préalable d'une autorisation d'établissement

..... Which seems to be more about preventing anyone who doesn't have C permit getting citizenship .

http://www.parlament.ch/sites/doc/Se...n%20N%20DF.pdf
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Unterlagen N DF.pdf (121.1 KB, 373 views)

Last edited by jrspet; 18.11.2012 at 12:32. Reason: Merging of successive posts
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  #27  
Old 18.11.2012, 14:54
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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And are they actually going to discuss citizenship after 8 years in the Winter session ? All I can find on the programme is :
Friday 14th December:

208/
06.485
n
Pa.Iv. Fraktion V. Keine Einbürgerung ohne vorher erteilte Niederlassungsbewilligung
Iv.pa. Groupe V. Pas de naturalisation sans obtention préalable d'une autorisation d'établissement

..... Which seems to be more about preventing anyone who doesn't have C permit getting citizenship .

http://www.parlament.ch/sites/doc/Se...n%20N%20DF.pdf
True, but judging by the details shown on this initiative (http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seit...ch_id=20060485) this doesn't seem to be in the scope of the naturalization initiative that calls for a total revision of the 1952 law, such as cantonal/communal caps on residency requirements and 8 year residency at Federal level. This seems designed to act on asylum seekers with criminal tendencies that come into the country and who can get a Swiss Passport just by fulfilling the residency requirement.

In sum, it seems that different political parties have issues with different issues in the legal blueprint to totally revise Swiss naturalization. The SVP seems to like the requirement for a C permit but does not like the 8 year requirement and instituting limits on communes and cantons to set residency requirements freely. They also object to the data privacy clause during naturalization (ostensibly to hide religion from the application).

Other political parties seem to object to the C Permit requirement before naturalization, but favor the 8 year requirement and cantonal/communal limits as a means of pushing for faster integration of foreigners (especially those that relocate within Swiss cantons for professional reasons).

Overall, we may see a compromise or the initiative may get dumped and the 1952 law will go on.
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  #28  
Old 18.11.2012, 18:10
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

I'd like to see C permit holders get an integration bonus. Currently there's none. So they get treated the same in the law as every other permit holder from a Nationality law perspective.

It's a shame some parties are focused on raising the bar, but not providing a corresponding bonus/reward for meeting it earlier.
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  #29  
Old 18.11.2012, 18:13
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

I was wondering if the Swiss C ( especially in the non-EU context ) is equivalent to the EU LTR ( Long Term Resident ) ?

http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l23034_en.htm

Quote:
EU countries must recognise long-term resident status after five years of continuous legal residence. Absences from the EU country for periods of less than six consecutive months (and not exceeding ten months in total within the five-year period) or for specific reasons provided for by national law (e.g. military service, secondment for work purposes, serious illness, maternity, research or studies) will be regarded as not interrupting the period of residence.

In order to obtain long-term resident status, non-EU nationals must prove that they have, for themselves and their family (if dependent):

a) stable resources sufficient to live without recourse to the social assistance system of the EU country concerned;

b) sickness insurance.
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  #30  
Old 19.11.2012, 11:47
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

Hi

Do anyone has updates about this ?

Regards
vava
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  #31  
Old 20.11.2012, 00:59
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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I was wondering if the Swiss C ( especially in the non-EU context ) is equivalent to the EU LTR ( Long Term Resident ) ?

http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l23034_en.htm
It is, but unlike in EU countries, Switzerland only has to provide this to EU citizens. So whereas an Indian is entitled to permanent residence in UK and to apply for citizenship after 5 years continuous residence, they are not in CH until after 10 yrs for permanent residence and 12 years for citizenship.
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  #32  
Old 20.11.2012, 01:08
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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Hi

Do anyone has updates about this ?

Regards
vava
On Nov 15th they asked for 2 more years to come up with a proposal.
This was accepted without objection.
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  #33  
Old 20.11.2012, 01:20
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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On Nov 15th they asked for 2 more years to come up with a proposal.
This was accepted without objection.
What is your source? I couldn't find anything in the papers.
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  #34  
Old 20.11.2012, 11:23
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

Could you please provide me with the source ?
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  #35  
Old 21.11.2012, 14:41
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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On Nov 15th they asked for 2 more years to come up with a proposal.
This was accepted without objection.
A proposal was already drafted December 16th, 2009
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/...ntw-bueg-f.pdf

In any event, the winter session doesn't begin until November 26th for both the Conseil National and Conseil des Etats
http://www.parlament.ch/F/SESSIONEN/...s/default.aspx

We'll definitely know by mid December the outcome of this project.
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Old 21.11.2012, 16:26
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

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On Nov 15th they asked for 2 more years to come up with a proposal.
This was accepted without objection.
http://www.parlament.ch/e/mm/2012/Pa...012-10-19.aspx

Par ailleurs, la commission a également continué son examen de la révision totale de la loi sur la nationalité (11.022 n), qu'elle poursuivra à sa séance des 17 et 18 janvier 2013. Elle fera part de ses propositions une fois qu'elle aura achevé son examen.

Gotta wait two more months for update I suppose, maybe it will be included in the 2013 Spring session?

Btw, all updates on this law can be viewed here:
http://www.parlament.ch/e/suche/Page...ch_id=20110022

As of today, the status is: Non encore traité au conseil
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  #37  
Old 13.12.2012, 21:38
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

will this draft (citizenship after eight years) be discussed tomorrow ? How can we find out the outcome?
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  #38  
Old 13.12.2012, 22:27
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

Even if it is decided soon, it will take some time before it is "implemented"... but the chances are quite low I believe...there will be probably go in the other direction...
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  #39  
Old 14.12.2012, 16:30
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

What is the outcome of the meeting . Any idea?
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Old 14.12.2012, 21:29
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years?

It wasn't dealt with in the Winter session. Status of the law can be found here:
http://www.parlament.ch/e/suche/Page...ch_id=20110022
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