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  #381  
Old 30.08.2016, 15:17
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

Was just reading the FAQ and realized that years spent on L permit are not counted. I don't understand this as years on L were counted when granting early C permit for us in Zurich canton.


Is it possible that cantons can overwrite the new rules allowing time on L permit to be counted towards citizenship?


if years on L are not counted, then it has no benefit for Non Europeans as they always mostly start on a L for the first 2 years and then convert to a B permit. so in the end, they have to stay 10 years after it got converted to B (making the total stay to 12 years, same as the current law). I know that having a C permit is mandatory to apply for citizenship.


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  #382  
Old 30.08.2016, 18:05
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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...Is it possible that cantons can overwrite the new rules allowing time on L permit to be counted towards citizenship?
Unlikely, given that it's a federal law.
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  #383  
Old 30.08.2016, 21:48
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

I didn't find anything in the FAQ about how long it takes after applying. Say 1.1.2018 you submit your application, how long it takes to become citizen? Anyone heard or know?


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  #384  
Old 30.08.2016, 21:57
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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I didn't find anything in the FAQ about how long it takes after applying. Say 1.1.2018 you submit your application, how long it takes to become citizen? Anyone heard or know?
It will vary from place to place, because the municipal, cantonal, and federal authorities are involved. Based on stories I have read on EF, some places are known for being quick with the processing (Geneva) and others for being slower and more strict (Schwyz). It seems to vary from 12-24 months.

Here's one of the better threads with a lot of info:
Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary
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  #385  
Old 01.09.2016, 20:37
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

Time spent on L permit is counted as half.


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Was just reading the FAQ and realized that years spent on L permit are not counted. I don't understand this as years on L were counted when granting early C permit for us in Zurich canton.


Is it possible that cantons can overwrite the new rules allowing time on L permit to be counted towards citizenship?


if years on L are not counted, then it has no benefit for Non Europeans as they always mostly start on a L for the first 2 years and then convert to a B permit. so in the end, they have to stay 10 years after it got converted to B (making the total stay to 12 years, same as the current law). I know that having a C permit is mandatory to apply for citizenship.


cheers
happycreature
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  #386  
Old 02.09.2016, 12:13
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Time spent on L permit is counted as half.


Hi happyrobbie,
Thanks for the information. it is atleast not too bad. but can you point me where in the law I can find this information. in the FAQ section of the law, it was a one line answer that time spent on L permit do not count so I want to see what is there in the law that atleast counts L permit years as half.


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  #387  
Old 02.09.2016, 12:50
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

On p. 45 under paragraph 1.2 of this Canton Zurich "Handbook to Naturalization" it reads that residency on an L permit is to be included in the calculation of qualified residency in Switzerland for naturalization purposes:

http://www.gaz.zh.ch/internet/justiz...n_20151027.pdf

Canton Graubünden states more explicitly that residency on an L permit is to be included if this residency is continual (ununterbrochen) with residency on other permits, e.g., B and C:

https://www.gr.ch/DE/institutionen/v...uslaender.aspx
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  #388  
Old 02.09.2016, 12:57
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

To be clear, my above comment is under current naturalization law. Under the new naturalization law, effective January 1, 2018, residency on an L permit will not be counted as qualified, as stated in the FAQ.
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  #389  
Old 03.09.2016, 11:42
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Hi happyrobbie,
Thanks for the information. it is atleast not too bad. but can you point me where in the law I can find this information. in the FAQ section of the law, it was a one line answer that time spent on L permit do not count so I want to see what is there in the law that atleast counts L permit years as half.


cheers
happycreature
I refer to the project of the 2014 version of the new law (however I do not know if this is the final version which will be adopted).
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/federal-.../2014/5001.pdf

Art. 33 letter b. says that "temporary admission" is couted half. But maybe I am wrong and here "temporary admission" only means F permit and not L permit. Anyway the text itself is not so clear for me.

Art. 33 Séjour
1 Est pris en compte lors du calcul de la durée du séjour en Suisse tout séjour effectué
au titre:
a. d’une autorisation de séjour ou d’établissement;
b. d’une admission provisoire; la moitié de la durée du séjour effectué à ce titre
est prise en compte; ou
c. d’une carte de légitimation délivrée par le Département fédéral des affaires
étrangères ou d’un titre de séjour similaire.
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  #390  
Old 16.09.2016, 21:19
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

Probably a stupid question, but are all 'L' type permits treated the same in the new law (don't count at all)? Because, some people really have permanent contracts but automatically get 2 years of 'L' before converting to 'B' and some get the 'L' because they really have a short term contract.
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  #391  
Old 30.09.2016, 18:03
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

Does anyone know whether there will be any changes to the requirements at the Kantonal and Gemeinde levels as well? If yes, where can we find them?
For example, in Zug the Kantonal requirement is minimum 5 years of residency in Kanton Zug and at least 3 years of residency in the same Gemeinde from where you are applying for citizenship. Will the 5 and 3 years requirement change?
Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere earlier in this thread.
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  #392  
Old 30.09.2016, 20:38
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Does anyone know whether there will be any changes to the requirements at the Kantonal and Gemeinde levels as well? If yes, where can we find them?
For example, in Zug the Kantonal requirement is minimum 5 years of residency in Kanton Zug and at least 3 years of residency in the same Gemeinde from where you are applying for citizenship. Will the 5 and 3 years requirement change?
Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere earlier in this thread.
Cantonal requirements are being harmonised so that residency will be between 2 and 5 years max so I doubt Zug will change.

Details will appear here nearer the time the law comes into effect I guess.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...tzfristen.html
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  #393  
Old 01.10.2016, 02:48
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

Under the new law it is not possible to submit an application for family. Each adult family member must meet the criteria and submit a separate application. That is bad news for housewives.
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  #394  
Old 01.10.2016, 02:54
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Under the new law it is not possible to submit an application for family. Each adult family member must meet the criteria and submit a separate application. That is bad news for housewives.
Why?
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  #395  
Old 01.10.2016, 11:54
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Why?
+1. Why shouldn't a housewife still learn the local language and integrate into the community? It sure made my life easier and less isolated.

Also we're talking about citizenship, with all its rights and privileges for life - not membership in the local yodeling club.
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  #396  
Old 01.10.2016, 15:17
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Under the new law it is not possible to submit an application for family. Each adult family member must meet the criteria and submit a separate application. That is bad news for housewives.
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Why?
Perhaps because of finances?

A spouse applying on his or her own, without an income, might not be viewed as favorably as he or she would have been in an application as a family of good tax payers.

But that taxes are still family-based rather than individual I would hope this would be dealt with in some way...
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  #397  
Old 01.10.2016, 22:01
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Perhaps because of finances?
A spouse applying on his or her own, without an income, might not be viewed as favorably as he or she would have been in an application as a family of good tax payers.
What about facilitated naturalization then?
It requires "integration", but that's about it.
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  #398  
Old 01.10.2016, 22:58
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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What about facilitated naturalization then?
It requires "integration", but that's about it.
  • And proof you're not on nor have received any social help
  • And proof you don't have a criminal record
  • And proof you don't have any outstanding debts
  • And a signed statement (or in my case about 3) saying you're in a legit marriage and you acknowledge they can revoke the citizenship within 8 years if they determine it was fraudulently obtained

But no language certificate needed and no written exam. Just a chat with the local police, either scheduled at their office (if they think you're legit) or via a surprise 4 a.m. visit at your home (if they think something might be dodgy)

Both spouses have to sign documents, not just the spouse making the application.
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Old 01.10.2016, 23:14
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

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Perhaps because of finances?

A spouse applying on his or her own, without an income, might not be viewed as favorably as he or she would have been in an application as a family of good tax payers.

But that taxes are still family-based rather than individual I would hope this would be dealt with in some way...
Income, taxes, social help... All family based.

They are probably trying to avoid one person integrated and speaking the language while the other not.

It is often the working spouse who doesn't have time to learn the language or participate in the community.

I've met more than one couple living in another country where it's the working husband that doesn't speak the local language because they work in English speaking companies and it's thé wife that shops, does all the administration stuff and deals with the kids school stuff.
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Old 01.10.2016, 23:49
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Re: Swiss Citizenship after 8 years? [Now 10 years]

We applied as a family, but it was only the residency requirement that was relaxed for the 'other' spouse (five years in CH and three years married - same as facilitated?).

They still had to fulfil all the other criteria independently or they would have been dropped from the application: language and integration matter and yes finances assessed as a family anyway.
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