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Old 10.01.2012, 14:25
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UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

Hello,

I am a new user to this site and I am doing some homework ahead of a potential lucrative career opportunity which has presented itself and I'd be foolish not to pursue this. I am already in close dialogue with the potential employer and I am weighing up my options.

This is the first of several questions to which I will be seeking advice and solutions for. The search for answers may be posted as new threads or may take the form of searching the forum or other internet resources for answers.

I would like to ask where do I stand as an UK national in regards to working in Switzerland and potentially returning to the UK on a bi-weekly basis? Will I have to apply for a working VISA or are there any potential obstacles that I will face?

I would like to thank other users in advance for any help and advice that can be given as it all will be gratefully appreciated.
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Old 10.01.2012, 14:28
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

Hello and welcome to the Forum. There is likely to be an answer to all of your questions in this 'Permits / Visas /...' sub forum, so have a leisurely stroll through what's here and by all means ask away if you don't find the info you need.
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Old 11.01.2012, 10:10
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

Assuming you are a UK citizen (or a citizen of another EU country), you have a right to work and live in Switzerland. Your employer should help you with the paperwork but you'll end up with the appropriate permit. It might be a bit of hassle, like running round to the local authorities with photos and suitable paperwork, but shouldn't be that difficult and you will only need to do that once.
No visas needed.
Lots of useful information in the stickies strewn around this forum on accommodation, taxes, vehicles and transportation.
If you've not been to Switzerland before, be prepared for a significant shock. There are many changes and the best way to deal with them is accept that things work differently here. Also, make an effort to learn the language - you don't say where you're going to (and remember there are clear language regions), but whilst it is possible to survive here speaking English only, you're going to miss out on the best reasons for living in the country if you can't communicate with local people.
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Old 11.01.2012, 10:37
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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Assuming you are a UK citizen (or a citizen of another EU country), you have a right to work and live in Switzerland. Your employer should help you with the paperwork but you'll end up with the appropriate permit. It might be a bit of hassle, like running round to the local authorities with photos and suitable paperwork, but shouldn't be that difficult and you will only need to do that once.
No visas needed.
Lots of useful information in the stickies strewn around this forum on accommodation, taxes, vehicles and transportation.
If you've not been to Switzerland before, be prepared for a significant shock. There are many changes and the best way to deal with them is accept that things work differently here. Also, make an effort to learn the language - you don't say where you're going to (and remember there are clear language regions), but whilst it is possible to survive here speaking English only, you're going to miss out on the best reasons for living in the country if you can't communicate with local people.
The employer no longer has any need to help with the paper work. The EU national will do everything on their own. The employer may provide a relocation company but that is not a given.

To register at the commune where s/he is living, it couldn't be easier. The EU national just needs the work contract, lease contract, passport and a photo. There could be a couple more things like proof of insurance but usually that's it as you have time to get the insurance sorted, marriage certificate if you are married, etc. Registration must be done within 8 days of arrival.
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Old 11.01.2012, 10:47
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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Hello,

I am a new user to this site and I am doing some homework ahead of a potential lucrative career opportunity which has presented itself and I'd be foolish not to pursue this. I am already in close dialogue with the potential employer and I am weighing up my options.

This is the first of several questions to which I will be seeking advice and solutions for. The search for answers may be posted as new threads or may take the form of searching the forum or other internet resources for answers.

I would like to ask where do I stand as an UK national in regards to working in Switzerland and potentially returning to the UK on a bi-weekly basis? Will I have to apply for a working VISA or are there any potential obstacles that I will face?

I would like to thank other users in advance for any help and advice that can be given as it all will be gratefully appreciated.
Your biggest issue is you won't have left the UK for tax, you are just working away from home & will be liable to UK taxes.
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Old 11.01.2012, 11:04
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

you can register in Switzerland without a hitch.

you will want to look at the "midnight rule" which is something like 183 midnights must be spent outside the UK and you may have to prove it so keep all flight coupons.

also take time to speak to an accountant in the UK to ensure you can get the UK IRS off your back (i.e. de-register for tax liability)

That is your main complexity in the situation.
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Old 11.01.2012, 11:28
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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Your biggest issue is you won't have left the UK for tax, you are just working away from home & will be liable to UK taxes.
I think that's an oversimplification. The visits are a factor in being declared resident/ordinarily resident in the UK, but intention to return, UK homes and location of spouse/partner are taken into account too. As far as I am aware, visits are only decisive alone when they add up to more than 183 days per year, which isn't the case here.
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Old 11.01.2012, 11:48
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

And, if your CH employer is paying your accom and fares etc, you'll get taxed on them as a benefit in kind too. See this thread: Hi from another Newbie
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Old 11.01.2012, 15:52
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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Assuming you are a UK citizen (or a citizen of another EU country), you have a right to work and live in Switzerland. Your employer should help you with the paperwork but you'll end up with the appropriate permit. It might be a bit of hassle, like running round to the local authorities with photos and suitable paperwork, but shouldn't be that difficult and you will only need to do that once.
No visas needed.
Lots of useful information in the stickies strewn around this forum on accommodation, taxes, vehicles and transportation.
If you've not been to Switzerland before, be prepared for a significant shock. There are many changes and the best way to deal with them is accept that things work differently here. Also, make an effort to learn the language - you don't say where you're going to (and remember there are clear language regions), but whilst it is possible to survive here speaking English only, you're going to miss out on the best reasons for living in the country if you can't communicate with local people.
The role is in Lausanne, Canton of Vaud.

Je parle le français un petit peu, mais Je vais devoir apprendre plus que mes dates françaises de retour à mes jours d'école.

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The employer no longer has any need to help with the paper work. The EU national will do everything on their own. The employer may provide a relocation company but that is not a given.

To register at the commune where s/he is living, it couldn't be easier. The EU national just needs the work contract, lease contract, passport and a photo. There could be a couple more things like proof of insurance but usually that's it as you have time to get the insurance sorted, marriage certificate if you are married, etc. Registration must be done within 8 days of arrival.
Thank you. Excellent advice.

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Your biggest issue is you won't have left the UK for tax, you are just working away from home & will be liable to UK taxes.
Hmm, will have to look into that further. Will speak to my accountant. I'm presently a freelance contractor, but the role in Lausanne is a permanent role.

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you can register in Switzerland without a hitch.

you will want to look at the "midnight rule" which is something like 183 midnights must be spent outside the UK and you may have to prove it so keep all flight coupons.

also take time to speak to an accountant in the UK to ensure you can get the UK IRS off your back (i.e. de-register for tax liability)

That is your main complexity in the situation.
As above in regards to my accountant

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I think that's an oversimplification. The visits are a factor in being declared resident/ordinarily resident in the UK, but intention to return, UK homes and location of spouse/partner are taken into account too. As far as I am aware, visits are only decisive alone when they add up to more than 183 days per year, which isn't the case here.
Potentially will be a maximum of 150 nights per year back in ol' blighty.

Many thanks for all the comments.

Looking into all the whys & what fors, taxation, insurances, living costs, housing costs & transportation, the role is simply too good an opportunity to pass. It is one that I'd never ever see in the UK and it is one that I'd rue for ever for passing over it.
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Old 11.01.2012, 18:24
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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I think that's an oversimplification. The visits are a factor in being declared resident/ordinarily resident in the UK, but intention to return, UK homes and location of spouse/partner are taken into account too. As far as I am aware, visits are only decisive alone when they add up to more than 183 days per year, which isn't the case here.
A bit of further digging reveals the HMRC guidance document HMRC6 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf for taxation purposes on UK nationals who are "normally" or "ordinarily" resident in the UK. The 183 midnight rule is discussed but is touched upon as being an average over a number of tax years.

Not a happy bunny.
What a right royal pain in the backside the document and legislation is.

As part of the research, will be discussing these matters with my accountant, even may seek the advice of a professional tax advisor to clarify my position.
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  #11  
Old 11.01.2012, 19:52
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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A bit of further digging reveals the HMRC guidance document HMRC6 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf for taxation purposes on UK nationals who are "normally" or "ordinarily" resident in the UK. The 183 midnight rule is discussed but is touched upon as being an average over a number of tax years.

Not a happy bunny.
What a right royal pain in the backside the document and legislation is.

As part of the research, will be discussing these matters with my accountant, even may seek the advice of a professional tax advisor to clarify my position.
The rules will change next year, you will never be non resident as you have not left permanantly or have any intention to do so.
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  #12  
Old 11.01.2012, 20:00
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

With regards to UK tax status, please do look into it very carefully. Whether you have dependants etc changes circumstances. We were in a very similar position to you last year and now we are all living in Lausanne as a family. Tax wise the commute just didn't work.

Ps. I notice your current location is Merseyside, thus the EasyJet route from Geneva to Liverpool John Lennon will be your commute route? It is a great route but be warned, in the summer it can take over an hour to get through passport control at Liverpool airport when you land. Real pain in the bum at midnight standing around for over an hour just to get through. Has happened to me many many times.

Last edited by ShaysLou; 11.01.2012 at 20:05. Reason: Add additional information
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Old 11.01.2012, 20:16
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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in the summer it can take over an hour to get through passport control at Liverpool airport when you land. Real pain in the bum at midnight standing around for over an hour just to get through. Has happened to me many many times.
This might actually work in your favour as HMRC count your days in UK by whether you in at midnight, so if you got stuck in Passport control and not thru at midnight, you gain a day.

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The 183 midnight rule is discussed but is touched upon as being an average over a number of tax years.
The current rule is 90 days per year and I heard there is a reduction to 44 days in coming year. So be aware. If you still keep your company and family in UK, you will need to fill in Self Assessment. Plus Swiss tax system tax world asset, so your house in UK will be counted towards the tax.

I don't know which IT field you are in and what rate you are charging but the rule of thumb for a reasonable life in CH is 120k min and if you have to pay mortgage in UK and commuting, I will look at a lot more than that before you find yourself short and can't manage.
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Old 11.01.2012, 21:25
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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This might actually work in your favour as HMRC count your days in UK by whether you in at midnight, so if you got stuck in Passport control and not thru at midnight, you gain a day.



The current rule is 90 days per year and I heard there is a reduction to 44 days in coming year. So be aware. If you still keep your company and family in UK, you will need to fill in Self Assessment. Plus Swiss tax system tax world asset, so your house in UK will be counted towards the tax.

I don't know which IT field you are in and what rate you are charging but the rule of thumb for a reasonable life in CH is 120k min and if you have to pay mortgage in UK and commuting, I will look at a lot more than that before you find yourself short and can't manage.
Not IT field. Salary on offer is 190k CHF, UK no mortgage rental and my partner & daughter will be in UK initially for at least 24 months.
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Old 11.01.2012, 22:36
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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Not IT field. Salary on offer is 190k CHF, UK no mortgage rental and my partner & daughter will be in UK initially for at least 24 months.
In spending power thats about £95,000
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Old 11.01.2012, 22:44
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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Not IT field. Salary on offer is 190k CHF, UK no mortgage rental and my partner & daughter will be in UK initially for at least 24 months.
just check with accountant in CH about child support for tax purpose as you are not "married".
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Old 11.01.2012, 23:06
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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In spending power thats about £95,000
After Federal & State taxations? taking into account OASI, UI etc?

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just check with accountant in CH about child support for tax purpose as you are not "married".
Child support is currently paid to my ex and my daughter usually stays with me & my partner every weekend therefore that is the reason for me looking to return to blighty each weekend
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Old 12.01.2012, 01:33
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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After Federal & State taxations? taking into account OASI, UI etc?
General cost of living, 4 years ago when the exchange rate was 2.40 the UK was expensive. I have seen organic filet stake in a supermarket 130CHF a kilo. You will have to pay UK taxes on your world wide earnings, you will get a credit for any taxes paid here.
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Old 12.01.2012, 01:49
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

So I take it that every purchase receipt no matter how insignificant it maybe, transportation, payslips & tax returns should be retained (as is the case with my current self employed freelance status) in order to ascertain my position in regards to UK taxation? What about the DTA between CH & UK?

Frickin bstards It could well be that I say frigg it and up sticks in all entirety. . I'm peeved by the whole complexity of the HMRC directives.
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Old 12.01.2012, 05:39
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Re: UK to CH - Potential Job Offer but return to UK at weekends

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So I take it that every purchase receipt no matter how insignificant it maybe, transportation, payslips & tax returns should be retained (as is the case with my current self employed freelance status) in order to ascertain my position in regards to UK taxation? What about the DTA between CH & UK?

Frickin bstards It could well be that I say frigg it and up sticks in all entirety. . I'm peeved by the whole complexity of the HMRC directives.
Will you be self employed in CH, it seems unlikely. Employees in the UK are unable to direct any travel expenses. (unlike in CH)
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