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  #21  
Old 22.06.2012, 21:32
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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Spot on Quark!

The thing that amazes me most about "Americans" is their ignorance of their laws.

Obviously the UK and US tax system are very different, the US system is pretty much out there on its own in the amount of reporting and worldwide taxation it imposes on its citizens. With that in mind, whereby every citizen, whether working in the US or abroad, has to file a tax return, and yet evidently you receive no education about this.
No we don't. I haven't lived in the USA since 1968, never worked there, so how am I supposed to know about an obscure law that is only now being enforced? My mother who also had dual US/UK citizenship never filed a US tax return once we moved back to the UK. She received a US widow's pension yet there was no mention of filing a US return. People who have only recently left the States might know these things, but for those of us who haven't been back for decades have no chance. The first I heard of it was when I started reading some of the threads here.
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  #22  
Old 22.06.2012, 21:47
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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No we don't. I haven't lived in the USA since 1968, never worked there, so how am I supposed to know about an obscure law that is only now being enforced? My mother who also had dual US/UK citizenship never filed a US tax return once we moved back to the UK. She received a US widow's pension yet there was no mention of filing a US return. People who have only recently left the States might know these things, but for those of us who haven't been back for decades have no chance. The first I heard of it was when I started reading some of the threads here.
Suggest you join the International Man site and forum and start getting up to speed:
https://www.internationalman.com/
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Old 22.06.2012, 22:10
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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No we don't. I haven't lived in the USA since 1968, never worked there, so how am I supposed to know about an obscure law that is only now being enforced? My mother who also had dual US/UK citizenship never filed a US tax return once we moved back to the UK. She received a US widow's pension yet there was no mention of filing a US return. People who have only recently left the States might know these things, but for those of us who haven't been back for decades have no chance. The first I heard of it was when I started reading some of the threads here.
If you have a US passport, you can actually read the tax filing requirements for US citizens (page four of the last series before biometric passports, last page of the biometric series).
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Old 23.06.2012, 15:28
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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Unfortunately, he's not 'our' - that is, the average US citizen's - ambassador.

The role of the ambassador and embassy officials is to represent the interest of the US government - which in this case means promoting FATCA.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for help from that quarter, I'm afraid.




But do keep pestering your senators and congresscritters, fellow Americans - at least these folks are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents.
It appears that the US Ambassador to CH, Don Beyer, found time to scold the Swiss on their Iran oil sanction policy, but hasn't found the time (or interest) to address the pressing needs of the US citizens in this country. Here's an article on Reuters on the Don Beyer's comments:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...dChannel=11563

I had some initial hopes that Beyer might be better than the previous ambassador under Bush, who, Wikileaks confirmed, didn't even understand the country. Such was my naivety!

- When the US built its new fortress embassy in Bern, it should have put it on a hill overlooking Bern, higher than the Swiss Parliament building. This would send the message to the Swiss politicians and people: "We, the Super Power, run this place, not you."
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Old 23.06.2012, 17:11
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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- When the US built its new fortress embassy in Bern, it should have put it on a hill overlooking Bern, higher than the Swiss Parliament building. This would send the message to the Swiss politicians and people: "We, the Super Power, run this place, not you."
It might possibly be more significant for US supremacy in the world if they built their embassy in Israel higher than the Knesset.
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Old 23.06.2012, 17:30
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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It might IMpossibly be more significant for US supremacy in the world if they built their embassy in Israel higher than the Knesset.
Fixed that for you

Last edited by cannut; 23.06.2012 at 17:45.
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Old 23.06.2012, 17:42
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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If you have a US passport, you can actually read the tax filing requirements for US citizens (page four of the last series before biometric passports, last page of the biometric series).
Yes, my latest passport (non-bio one) does have it, but it's the only one that does. The previous two, going back to 1985, don't mention anything to do with tax so it's a pretty recent inclusion. I usually only check the details are correct and stick my passport somewhere safe until I need it for travelling. Can't remember the last time I read what else was in there! How many others have?
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Old 23.06.2012, 20:15
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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Yes, my latest passport (non-bio one) does have it, but it's the only one that does. The previous two, going back to 1985, don't mention anything to do with tax so it's a pretty recent inclusion. I usually only check the details are correct and stick my passport somewhere safe until I need it for travelling. Can't remember the last time I read what else was in there! How many others have?
Try telling that to the judge.
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Old 23.06.2012, 20:38
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

Rep. Carolyn Maloney from New York questioned Tim Geithner, US Secretary of Treasury, on the difficulties Americans abroad are having to obtain bank services. The attached video shows their exchange on the bank account subject (3:15 to 5:43).

http://maloney.house.gov/video/rep-m...c-tim-geithner

Geithner response near the end is: "we've got work to do on that." It has been three months since this questioning occurred and I have seen nothing that suggests action yet!
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Old 23.06.2012, 20:51
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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Try telling that to the judge.
I may have to. How is a 15 year old US citizen (which is the age I was when I left the States) supposed to know about an obscure law that's suddenly being enforced? I've had no notification from the IRS or US government to let me know about it and if I hadn't started visiting this forum I still wouldn't!

Hanging on to a citizenship which looks like causing me so much hassle just doesn't seem worth it, proud as I am of being the first person in my family to have been born an American. At the moment the only thing I'm getting from my citizenship is a passport which makes it slightly easier to get into the States. With a total of 4 trips back in 30 years I'm seriously considering giving it up and that will make me very .
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Old 23.06.2012, 20:57
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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I may have to. How is a 15 year old US citizen (which is the age I was when I left the States) supposed to know about an obscure law that's suddenly being enforced? I've had no notification from the IRS or US government to let me know about it and if I hadn't started visiting this forum I still wouldn't!

Hanging on to a citizenship which looks like causing me so much hassle just doesn't seem worth it, proud as I am of being the first person in my family to have been born an American. At the moment the only thing I'm getting from my citizenship is a passport which makes it slightly easier to get into the States. With a total of 4 trips back in 30 years I'm seriously considering giving it up and that will make me very .
The first stage of renouncing your US citizenship is doing what is necessary to obtain a 2nd. passport, i.e. from another country. Since you are here in CH I would suggest you go down that road (assuming you do not have one already).
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Old 23.06.2012, 21:09
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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I may have to. How is a 15 year old US citizen (which is the age I was when I left the States) supposed to know about an obscure law that's suddenly being enforced? I've had no notification from the IRS or US government to let me know about it and if I hadn't started visiting this forum I still wouldn't!

Hanging on to a citizenship which looks like causing me so much hassle just doesn't seem worth it, proud as I am of being the first person in my family to have been born an American. At the moment the only thing I'm getting from my citizenship is a passport which makes it slightly easier to get into the States. With a total of 4 trips back in 30 years I'm seriously considering giving it up and that will make me very .
There is a website called IsaacBrockSociety.ca , run from Canada, with extensive posts on renouncing/ relinquishing US citizenship. There are many posts on the site from US citizens and former US citizens who are currently going through the process or have already gone through the process. To help you explore your options, you might wish to review some of the posts. Good luck!
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  #33  
Old 23.06.2012, 21:16
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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The first stage of renouncing your US citizenship is doing what is necessary to obtain a 2nd. passport, i.e. from another country. Since you are here in CH I would suggest you go down that road (assuming you do not have one already).
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There is a website called IsaacBrockSociety.ca , run from Canada, with extensive posts on renouncing/ relinquishing US citizenship. There are many posts on the site from US citizens and former US citizens who are currently going through the process or have already gone through the process. To help you explore your options, you might wish to review some of the posts. Good luck!
Yes, luckily I also have British citizenship through my parents and have a British passport which I've just renewed because it ran out last year.

Thanks, Curt, I'll have a look at that site. My main problem at the moment is trying to convince my British husband that this could become a serious problem for us here. He just says as I've never lived or worked there I don't owe them any money and not to worry about it. We've got a trip over to the UK next week, but when we get back I'm going to sit down and have a serious talk with him and try and make him see what we could be in for. Then maybe I can decide the best course of action.
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Old 24.06.2012, 01:53
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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Yes, luckily I also have British citizenship through my parents and have a British passport which I've just renewed because it ran out last year.

Thanks, Curt, I'll have a look at that site. My main problem at the moment is trying to convince my British husband that this could become a serious problem for us here. He just says as I've never lived or worked there I don't owe them any money and not to worry about it. We've got a trip over to the UK next week, but when we get back I'm going to sit down and have a serious talk with him and try and make him see what we could be in for. Then maybe I can decide the best course of action.
The US Embassy in Bern has a special page just for renunciations (demand must be high!):
http://bern.usembassy.gov/service/renunciation5.html

Make sure you look into FBAR filing requirements also, especially if you have joint accounts with your husband.
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Old 24.06.2012, 10:09
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The US Embassy in Bern has a special page just for renunciations (demand must be high!):
http://bern.usembassy.gov/service/renunciation5.html

Make sure you look into FBAR filing requirements also, especially if you have joint accounts with your husband.
Yes, I was having a look at the embassy site last night to see what it said. However, I saw on the www.IsaacBrockSociety.ca site that Curt mentioned a thread pointing out that you can also relinquish your citizenship which doesn't require you to swear in front of a US official. That's swear an oath here folks, though I'm sure a lot of us would prefer just to swear at them in person. Doing it this way would certainly cut down on the waiting times for appointments if they're as long as 18 months.

Also a couple of interesting threads on the legality or otherwise of what the IRS/Governent is doing and that it's also unconstitutional as well.

Oh, and I read somewhere (can't remember where darn it) that when US tried the same trick with Brazil they turned around and said that it was not alllowed under Brazil's constitution and to go take a running jump. Pity Switzerland didn't do the same.

Last edited by Medea Fleecestealer; 24.06.2012 at 10:13. Reason: Additional comment
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Old 24.06.2012, 11:56
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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Yes, luckily I also have British citizenship through my parents and have a British passport which I've just renewed because it ran out last year.

Thanks, Curt, I'll have a look at that site. My main problem at the moment is trying to convince my British husband that this could become a serious problem for us here. He just says as I've never lived or worked there I don't owe them any money and not to worry about it. We've got a trip over to the UK next week, but when we get back I'm going to sit down and have a serious talk with him and try and make him see what we could be in for. Then maybe I can decide the best course of action.
My understanding of this issue is that for the US tax authorities it is a criminal offense not to have filled in your forms properly. So until the issue is settled I would recommend that you or your husband DO NOT TRAVEL TO THE US or any of its dependent territories.
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Old 24.06.2012, 12:04
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Oh, and I read somewhere (can't remember where darn it) that when US tried the same trick with Brazil they turned around and said that it was not alllowed under Brazil's constitution and to go take a running jump. Pity Switzerland didn't do the same.
Short answer: Switzerland has a couple of large banks in the US and their assets can be used by the US legal system to force the issue regardless of right and wrong.
I can assure you the problem is NOT Switzerland.
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  #38  
Old 24.06.2012, 13:11
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Re: "Swiss banks step up efforts to identify, quarantine, avoid US citizens"

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My understanding of this issue is that for the US tax authorities it is a criminal offense not to have filled in your forms properly. So until the issue is settled I would recommend that you or your husband DO NOT TRAVEL TO THE US or any of its dependent territories.
No, no plans to go to US any time soon and certainly not until this is sorted out. May never go back at this rate.

No, I know it's not Switzerland's fault, but I wonder how much business these banks do in the US compared to their Swiss end of things. If they're going to consider anyone who has a close connection to a US citizen as a no-go I would think they'll lose a large chunk of their business base here. And even Swiss banks with no bases in the US will suffer if they drop us. Are the compliance costs really going to be more than losing all those accounts?

What would be ideal was if all the people around the world who are being affected by this legislation banded together and brought criminal charges at the International Court because US are clearly in breach of their own Constitution. Better yet, let's all sue them. Are there any lawyers out there willing to take up a class action case against the IRS and US Government?

I just wish I'd gotten my British passport back in the UK before we moved here. Then I could have put that on all the documents instead. Of course, 14 years ago I didn't know my US citizenship was going to cause me so many problems!
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Old 24.06.2012, 13:24
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No, I know it's not Switzerland's fault, but I wonder how much business these banks do in the US compared to their Swiss end of things. If they're going to consider anyone who has a close connection to a US citizen as a no-go I would think they'll lose a large chunk of their business base here. And even Swiss banks with no bases in the US will suffer if they drop us. Are the compliance costs really going to be more than losing all those accounts?
This pic. may explain that.
UBS trading floor New York
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Old 24.06.2012, 20:02
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This pic. may explain that.
UBS trading floor New York
It explains nothing at all. The IB is a liability to UBS.
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