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  #21  
Old 05.08.2012, 14:01
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

Everything above says that IF s/he gets a C, he can ask for an absentee permit. Whether s/he gets it, that is another thing. The form for Canton Geneva clearly allows for this.
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  #22  
Old 05.08.2012, 14:05
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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2 years with a further 2 years granted down the line, is not the same as getting permission to be away for 4 from the start..

The reasons for getting permission are VERY limited, if you read what was posted " (eg, completion of military service, training or exercise of a temporary job on behalf of the Swiss employer)"

You cant just be away because you want to or a family member is dying.
The law states that up to 4 years are allowed with approval . Our commune approved 2 years and said that I could apply for two more. We did not leave for any of those reasons. So I imagine the communes have some discretion.

It's too bad that they will not approve being away to take care of sick family member. I imagine in that case you can stay registered and be away up to 6 months at a time.

The point is that your permit is not necessarily automatically gone upon de-registration as stated above.

Anyway, going back to the OP, it's unlikely his C permit will be give before he leaves and unlikely that even if he does his "leave of absence" will be approved.
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  #23  
Old 05.08.2012, 14:12
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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Not if he's on a C permit.
He isn't and leaves before he gets the chance to get one, hence my reply.
Anyway, the day the Zürich immigration authorities discover that the date of relocation to India is before the legally required deadline for the C-permit, he'll be filed as fraud. They'll love it...
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  #24  
Old 05.08.2012, 14:23
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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He isn't and leaves before he gets the chance to get one, hence my reply.
No, but you didn't specify and you weren't the only one who said the same thing. It's not true in case of a C permit with approval, which I believe was the OP's "plan", ie, to get his C permit early. It's is highly unlikely to happen though.


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Anyway, the day the Zürich immigration authorities discover that the date of relocation to India is before the legally required deadline for the C-permit, he'll be filed as fraud. They'll love it...
Agreed! The OP needs to rethink his plan.
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  #25  
Old 05.08.2012, 18:44
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Of course if your married to a Swiss or have a Swiss passport you can do whatever you want .

I will upload the letter I got tonight as I think this is being misrepresented. It can happen but you don't have the right.

I know another c permit holder who is self employed, she wanted to develop her business , she got a flat refusal!
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  #26  
Old 05.08.2012, 19:08
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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Of course if your married to a Swiss or have a Swiss passport you can do whatever you want .

I will upload the letter I got tonight as I think this is being misrepresented. It can happen but you don't have the right.

I know another c permit holder who is self employed, she wanted to develop her business , she got a flat refusal!
The OP just registered and has posted twice. Nothing more is known about the OP. Perhaps in your case, the C permit holder from Blighty had situations that did not persuade the officer to exercise the discretion, including but not limited to economically inactive, dependent on social welfare and so on.

We do know that Minimia went to Buenos Aires and returned and the other member, also non-EU, obtained the Abwesenheitsbewilligung for his son from Lausanne.

Indeed, there must be evidence that the center of the applicant's life be in CH.

All I stated was that the non-EU American B permit holder of 5 years in Canton Geneva might be eligible for the C and showed references to the law and the forms.

Personally, I know many Sri Lankans ( non-EU ) with the C permit having successfully obtained their Abwesenheitsbewilligung from Canton ZH ( not from Effretikon but from other parishes ).

Laws and rules change, being dynamic. It is imperative one is informed of the latest developments.
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  #27  
Old 05.08.2012, 19:55
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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That sounds good in principle but will not happen, as the law only provides for 2 years!
You dont deregister you tell them your away, once you deregister permit is over.

Just been in contact with the Migrationsampt, what has been written on the forum to date about this subject is total BS.
Law provides for a maximum of 4 years if absence is approved from the Canton, I have cross checked this with the Canton de Vaud and also with other Cantons; discretion is up to the authorities, however I believe it is fair to say that leaves of a temporary nature with the goal of returning to Switzerland have an almost 100% chance of being approved if:

-The individual is performing military service abroad
-The individual is pursuing further education abroad
-The individual is given an expat assignment by a "Swiss company"
-The individual is going abroad for medical treatment

I know that the rule used to be 2 years in the past, but this was altered not so long ago. When I got my C Permit in the mail, there was an information sheet in German, French and Italian which said in the bottom that it is possible to apply for a 4 year absence.
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  #28  
Old 05.08.2012, 21:23
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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Personally, I know many Sri Lankans ( non-EU ) with the C permit having successfully obtained their Abwesenheitsbewilligung from Canton ZH ( not from Effretikon but from other parishes ).

Laws and rules change, being dynamic. It is imperative one is informed of the latest developments.
Mr Pet,

Why do you mention Effretikon, I never did?

Here is a copy of the letter I got from the migrationsamt , I responded & got 2 more letters with similar requests for SAME info!

Edit- you have just got a C permit, why don't you apply & proove me wrong, obviousely you don't have to go anywhere just get the permission.
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  #29  
Old 05.08.2012, 21:59
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

I suspect the law has recently changed, as I was required to submit a work contract with my application for permit renewal (and request for C permit). I don't know how this influences the outcome but perhaps with your work contract ending so close to the renewal period they will not give you a C unless you can prove you are staying in CH. I was told that my B permit renewal would be a time-limited B based on the length of my contract by my commune (in the end I got a C though).
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  #30  
Old 05.08.2012, 22:21
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

According to Swiss Federal Law:

Die Niederlassungsbewilligung erlischt durch Abmeldung oder wenn sich die
Ausländerinnen und Ausländer während sechs Monaten tatsächlich im Ausland aufhalten. Stellen sie vor Ablauf dieser sechs Monate das Begehren,
kann die Niederlassungsbewilligung während vier Jahren aufrechterhalten
werden (Art. 61 Abs. 2 AuG).

L’autorisation d’établissement prend fin lorsque l’étranger annonce son
départ ou qu’il a séjourné effectivement pendant six mois à l’étranger.
Sur demande présentée au cours de ce délai, elle peut être prolongée
jusqu’à quatre ans (art. 61, al. 2, LEtr).

Il permesso di domicilio perde ogni validità non appena lo straniero notifica la
sua partenza o se risiede effettivamente all’estero durante sei mesi. Dietro
domanda presentata entro i sei mesi, il permesso può essere mantenuto per
quattro anni
(art. 61 cpv. 2 LStr).

Swiss Cantons are sovereign to the extent their sovereignty does not clash with Federal Law. I would recommend showing the Federal Law on C Permits to the Zurich Cantonal Migration Office if they keep insisting on two years.
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  #31  
Old 05.08.2012, 22:48
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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I have been working and living in Switzerland since April 1, 2008 (I am a US expat where my payroll is still US..Not on a local contract). I currently hold a Permit B. I am a US citizen.

I will be completing my 5 years as of March 15, 2013. I was recently offered a new position in India where I will have to relocate, possible by Oct./Nov. timeframe. I am keen to still receive my Permit C and live in Switzerland long term. I will be coming back to Switzerland every 1.5 months to visit. I am hoping to be back to Switzerland when my assignment in ends in 2-3 years.

Can you please advise if it is still possible to get my Permit C? What are the steps necessary to achieve that?

Thank you in advnace for your time and assistance!
Per BFM:

Drittstaatsangehörigen kann in der Regel nach einem zehnjährigen ordentlichen und ununterbrochenen Aufenthalt die Niederlassungsbewilligung erteilt werden. Für Bürger der USA und Kanada gilt eine Sonderregelung. Ein Anspruch besteht in diesen Fällen aber nicht.

The "Sonderregelung" per Swiss Federal Law is the 5 year uninterrupted residency requirement instead of 10. US and Canadian citizens have no legal entitlement to a C Permit after 5 years; hence your application in theory could be denied.

Countries with automatic C Permits after 5 years per bilateral or reciprocal agreements (as settlement permit provisions are lacking in the Swiss-EU Free Movement of Persons Agreement):

EU-15
EFTA
Andorra
Monaco
San Marino
Vatican City
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  #32  
Old 05.08.2012, 22:48
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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No it doesn't. I got it for 2 years then with a 2 year extension.

I was out and deregistered for almost 3.5 years and have recovered my pretty little C permit.
What you have failed to mention that you own a property in CH, so proving you center of life remained in your original canton & you really intended to return 'home'.
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  #33  
Old 05.08.2012, 22:50
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

Americans ( and Canadians ) have special consideration as well.
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  #34  
Old 05.08.2012, 22:53
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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Americans ( and Canadians ) have special consideration as well.
Yes, but if you read the last sentence, Americans and Canadians do not have a legal entitlement to a C Permit after 5 years unlike EU-15/EFTA/Andorra/Monaco/San Marino/Vatican City.

I have heard of Americans who have been denied C Permits at 5 years. Luckily mine came through smoothly (I think Vaud and Geneva are more lenient).
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  #35  
Old 06.08.2012, 08:14
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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What you have failed to mention that you own a property in CH, so proving you center of life remained in your original canton & you really intended to return 'home'.
I do not own the house my husband does. They didn't ask that when I applied. They just asked where you were going and if we intend to come back. Owning a house is not a criteria. But the fact that we didn't sell the house could have been a sign that we intended to come back.

Anyway, it says "it CAN be prolonged" not that it must be prolonged. The fact is that WITH prior approval your permit is not automatically canceled when you deregister. That's been my stance all along. No one said you can't be denied.
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  #36  
Old 06.08.2012, 11:16
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I do not own the house my husband does. They didn't ask that when I applied. They just asked where you were going and if we intend to come back. Owning a house is not a criteria. But the fact that we didn't sell the house could have been a sign that we intended to come back.

Anyway, it says "it CAN be prolonged" not that it must be prolonged. The fact is that WITH prior approval your permit is not automatically canceled when you deregister. That's been my stance all along. No one said you can't be denied.
In reality you got permission as you were going with your husband, rather than your request on its own merit.
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  #37  
Old 06.08.2012, 14:14
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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In reality you got permission as you were going with your husband, rather than your request on its own merit.
Perhaps. I haven't tried to leave by myself although I did consider taking a 10 month program in the UK. Maybe i'll be able to update the thread another time.

But that's not the point. It's clear that you Can ask for approval for certain reasons that have been posted and that they authorities have some discretion for other reasons. It's also clear that not all requests are approved. Like Imo
it is unlikely the OP will have his request approved. Not that he shouldn't try.
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  #38  
Old 06.08.2012, 14:34
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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Perhaps. I haven't tried to leave by myself although I did consider taking a 10 month program in the UK. Maybe i'll be able to update the thread another time.

But that's not the point. It's clear that you Can ask for approval for certain reasons that have been posted and that they authorities have some discretion for other reasons. It's also clear that not all requests are approved. Like Imo
it is unlikely the OP will have his request approved. Not that he shouldn't try.
2 questions, is your husband Swiss? & was he working for a Swiss company?
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  #39  
Old 06.08.2012, 17:21
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Re: Permit C Before End of 5 years

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2 questions, is your husband Swiss? & was he working for a Swiss company?
This isn't about me. If you want to know about me we can meet for coffee when you hit vaud.

Anyway, I think we are now going around in circles. Brusch gave the best overview:

Quote:
Law provides for a maximum of 4 years if absence is approved from the Canton, I have cross checked this with the Canton de Vaud and also with other Cantons; discretion is up to the authorities, however I believe it is fair to say that leaves of a temporary nature with the goal of returning to Switzerland have an almost 100% chance of being approved if:

-The individual is performing military service abroad
-The individual is pursuing further education abroad
-The individual is given an expat assignment by a "Swiss company"
-The individual is going abroad for medical treatment

I know that the rule used to be 2 years in the past, but this was altered not so long ago. When I got my C Permit in the mail, there was an information sheet in German, French and Italian which said in the bottom that it is possible to apply for a 4 year absence.
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