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Old 21.09.2012, 00:15
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Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

So I started here late August. Realised an L-permit wasn't going to be much fun when it came to convincing landlords of my intended longevity here. Realised that October change-over meant some chance. Registered in Kreis 1 with my agent. Was at friends, hotels, and now temporary accommodation for a month. Will be moving again in 2 weeks.

I opened a bank account at CS so I could get paid, last Friday. This morning, I received a letter from Kreisbüro 4, inviting me to come along and pay 85CHF, and further reminders will be charged, thank you for your effort.

My question is, will I be able to successfully argue that I am moving again on Oct 1, and I will be in Thalwil, and therefore I will register there? Will they care? The irony is my address is 5 minutes from my agent's address, so I don't know how I changed Kreisbüros.

Further irony is if the accommodation system was usable, I wouldn't be in this position in the first place. I would go into a nice apartment and declare, "I'll take it!". Imagine that. Right now, the only places I can do this are VERY expensive managed accommodation. System is sewn up quite well, isn't it? :-)

cheers,
Slay
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Old 21.09.2012, 09:30
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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So I started here late August. Realised an L-permit wasn't going to be much fun when it came to convincing landlords of my intended longevity here. Realised that October change-over meant some chance. Registered in Kreis 1 with my agent. Was at friends, hotels, and now temporary accommodation for a month. Will be moving again in 2 weeks.

I opened a bank account at CS so I could get paid, last Friday. This morning, I received a letter from Kreisbüro 4, inviting me to come along and pay 85CHF, and further reminders will be charged, thank you for your effort.

My question is, will I be able to successfully argue that I am moving again on Oct 1, and I will be in Thalwil, and therefore I will register there? Will they care? The irony is my address is 5 minutes from my agent's address, so I don't know how I changed Kreisbüros.

Further irony is if the accommodation system was usable, I wouldn't be in this position in the first place. I would go into a nice apartment and declare, "I'll take it!". Imagine that. Right now, the only places I can do this are VERY expensive managed accommodation. System is sewn up quite well, isn't it? :-)


cheers,
Slay
You will have to pay, your paying for the paperwork it's not a tax!
One thing you will find if you don't pay bills, it will get very expensive rather quickly.
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Old 21.09.2012, 09:34
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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So I started here late August. Realised an L-permit wasn't going to be much fun when it came to convincing landlords of my intended longevity here. Realised that October change-over meant some chance. Registered in Kreis 1 with my agent. Was at friends, hotels, and now temporary accommodation for a month. Will be moving again in 2 weeks.

I opened a bank account at CS so I could get paid, last Friday. This morning, I received a letter from Kreisbüro 4, inviting me to come along and pay 85CHF, and further reminders will be charged, thank you for your effort.

My question is, will I be able to successfully argue that I am moving again on Oct 1, and I will be in Thalwil, and therefore I will register there? Will they care? The irony is my address is 5 minutes from my agent's address, so I don't know how I changed Kreisbüros.

Further irony is if the accommodation system was usable, I wouldn't be in this position in the first place. I would go into a nice apartment and declare, "I'll take it!". Imagine that. Right now, the only places I can do this are VERY expensive managed accommodation. System is sewn up quite well, isn't it? :-)

cheers,
Slay
Hey Slay,

If it is all so horrible why do you bother to stay here then? Why not move back home or to a different country?

I don't want to sound like an arse, but I don't get complaints that are based on how things are setup and nothing can be done about. There is a very good reason for why you have to pay the CHF 85, it is not targeted directly towards you so just pay up and get on with it

I don't know where you are originally from or what line of work you're in, but in general taxes are quite low in this country so you should expect to pay lots of extra little things that we take for granted in other countries (as it is funded through taxes). I was surprised that I had to buy specific trash refuse bags as these were "taxed" so I could get my rubbish picked up.

I moved from one commune to another and was billed CHF 85 as well. I did not complain as I don't have to pay for others moving in and out of communes as you would indirectly in other countries (again part of your taxes).

Yes, I guess it is a bit of a pain not getting a place to live with an L-Permit, but look at it from the owners point of view (not that it helps you of course). I would do the same and so would you. There is a reason for the L-permits...

Best of luck though and let's know how you get along...
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Old 21.09.2012, 10:28
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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There is a reason for the L-permits...
For those that are here truly for short term, yes, for those of us who have indefinite contracts and still have to deal with the L permit hassles for 2 or 3 years first, not so much.

OP - just pay it. Consider it a moving cost and be sure to register in your new place within 8 days so you don't get another notice As soon as you have a permit in hand, they know where you are and those pieces of paper, if not paid right away, can be your fast track to the decline pile when you reapply next year for your permit renewal. Good luck settling in - there is a lot of things coming your way as you get it all figured out but it does all get done!
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Old 21.09.2012, 10:50
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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be sure to register in your new place within 8 days so you don't get another notice
8 days?

My daughter officially left at the start of the year (I filled out the form, had her sign it, and handed it in), though, in reality, 8 months before that, and never registered at her new place (half hour north of Locarno). Finally, her new commune got tired of the old one asking them if she had registered yet, so they did it for her!

Tom
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Old 23.09.2012, 14:33
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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Hey Slay,

If it is all so horrible why do you bother to stay here then? Why not move back home or to a different country?

I don't want to sound like an arse, but I don't get complaints that are based on how things are setup and nothing can be done about. There is a very good reason for why you have to pay the CHF 85, it is not targeted directly towards you so just pay up and get on with it

I don't know where you are originally from or what line of work you're in, but in general taxes are quite low in this country so you should expect to pay lots of extra little things that we take for granted in other countries (as it is funded through taxes). I was surprised that I had to buy specific trash refuse bags as these were "taxed" so I could get my rubbish picked up.

I moved from one commune to another and was billed CHF 85 as well. I did not complain as I don't have to pay for others moving in and out of communes as you would indirectly in other countries (again part of your taxes).

Yes, I guess it is a bit of a pain not getting a place to live with an L-Permit, but look at it from the owners point of view (not that it helps you of course). I would do the same and so would you. There is a reason for the L-permits...

Best of luck though and let's know how you get along...
First of all, your initial statement DOES make you sound like an arse. Just saying.

Second, I don't mind paying the bills when I know I have to do so. But I have not met anyone who *likes* paying unexpected bills. But in this case, I specifically asked my agent if I had to inform the Kreisbüro if I was changing addresses just for a month, and he said no, there was no need. I understand I might miss a few things being a foreigner and not knowing the language*, but if locals who work in this field get confused by the rules, then perhaps they are not clear, would you not think? In fact, he still insists I should make my case for this bill, so clearly *someone* is wrong, eh?

Third, there is no reason for L-permits. Talking to others in my position (EU-17), I should have got a B permit automatically. Reciprocally, I do not believe Swiss nationals (or people from EEA countries for that matter) have this much paperwork to come and work in the UK. So take that comment elsewhere please, it makes you sound elitist. What on earth could be a reason for issuing L-permits, thereby forcing foreigners to stay in expensive temporary accommodation (which are generally sub-par in terms of quality and space, I can show you pictures, cockroaches are involved), with less chance of integrating or feeling 'at home'?

Anyway - back on track. You are missing my point, which is, do I have to pay that fee if I am here temporarily? Isn't there a clause somewhere for temporary stays? Otherwise it means paying another 85CHF in 2 weeks..

*on the purely anecdotal side, I note with amusement that the Swiss use German for all legal documents, despite the fact that the Swiss desperately do everything to make it sound NOT like German! Even the Swiss German used in IT has a lot of English words, I notice.. The only thing in English was the Customer Satisfaction form, which was a source of great amusement! :-)
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Old 23.09.2012, 14:47
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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First of all, your initial statement DOES make you sound like an arse. Just saying.

Second, I don't mind paying the bills when I know I have to do so. But I have not met anyone who *likes* paying unexpected bills. But in this case, I specifically asked my agent if I had to inform the Kreisbüro if I was changing addresses just for a month, and he said no, there was no need. I understand I might miss a few things being a foreigner and not knowing the language*, but if locals who work in this field get confused by the rules, then perhaps they are not clear, would you not think? In fact, he still insists I should make my case for this bill, so clearly *someone* is wrong, eh?

Third, there is no reason for L-permits. Talking to others in my position (EU-17), I should have got a B permit automatically. Reciprocally, I do not believe Swiss nationals (or people from EEA countries for that matter) have this much paperwork to come and work in the UK. So take that comment elsewhere please, it makes you sound elitist. What on earth could be a reason for issuing L-permits, thereby forcing foreigners to stay in expensive temporary accommodation (which are generally sub-par in terms of quality and space, I can show you pictures, cockroaches are involved), with less chance of integrating or feeling 'at home'?

Anyway - back on track. You are missing my point, which is, do I have to pay that fee if I am here temporarily? Isn't there a clause somewhere for temporary stays? Otherwise it means paying another 85CHF in 2 weeks..

*on the purely anecdotal side, I note with amusement that the Swiss use German for all legal documents, despite the fact that the Swiss desperately do everything to make it sound NOT like German! Even the Swiss German used in IT has a lot of English words, I notice.. The only thing in English was the Customer Satisfaction form, which was a source of great amusement! :-)
As other people said yes you do
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Old 23.09.2012, 14:49
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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For those that are here truly for short term, yes, for those of us who have indefinite contracts and still have to deal with the L permit hassles for 2 or 3 years first, not so much.

OP - just pay it. Consider it a moving cost and be sure to register in your new place within 8 days so you don't get another notice As soon as you have a permit in hand, they know where you are and those pieces of paper, if not paid right away, can be your fast track to the decline pile when you reapply next year for your permit renewal. Good luck settling in - there is a lot of things coming your way as you get it all figured out but it does all get done!
Totally agreed on first point. The irony is that at my interview, they were concerned that I would not be there for the long haul...then I got an L permit, which, for people who have not had to deal with the consequences of that, does everything to discourage you staying longer, and forces you into sub-par accommodation. Perhaps, 10 years ago, I would be content to pay 2000CHF+ for a 25m2 studio, furnished (apparently), but I am a married man and certain standards have to be kept.

Question; if I register within 8 days, I assume there is a fee still, just not 85CHF? It may sound like I am quibbling over a small amount of money here, but I have been here a month setting up, and living out of my own savings - it goes pretty fast. It will be better when the money starts coming in.

Thanks, we have the hang of most things, as we have both lived in other countries before, even as children. Recycling, check (we were very good in the UK), neighbour rules, check (have to laugh at a few), the different mentality, aware of, but still getting used to that one :-) Already loads of anecdotes - to any Swiss, or anyone concerned about that, we take the p**s equally out of any nation, including the UK (especially the UK).
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Old 23.09.2012, 14:53
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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As other people said yes you do
OK, thank you.
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Old 23.09.2012, 15:06
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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Question; if I register within 8 days, I assume there is a fee still, just not 85CHF? It may sound like I am quibbling over a small amount of money here, but I have been here a month setting up, and living out of my own savings - it goes pretty fast. It will be better when the money starts coming in.
.
Why should it be less, it's the same amount of work?
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Old 24.09.2012, 01:24
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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Why should it be less, it's the same amount of work?
I must have stumbled on 'analenglishforum.ch' or 'swisspretendingtobeenglishforum.ch'. jeez. Perhaps you have been here too long? ;-) If you see absolutely nothing wrong with having to paying 85 CHF twice in 2 weeks to register temporary addresses one block and a bit from the previous, then you need a good dose of BR timetabling and a cornish pasty.
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Old 24.09.2012, 08:39
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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I must have stumbled on 'analenglishforum.ch' or 'swisspretendingtobeenglishforum.ch'. jeez. Perhaps you have been here too long? ;-) If you see absolutely nothing wrong with having to paying 85 CHF twice in 2 weeks to register temporary addresses one block and a bit from the previous, then you need a good dose of BR timetabling and a cornish pasty.
If I go to work, I expect to be paid, if I have to redo what I did last week, why should I do it for nothing?

I think your too used to a system based tax credits, in the UK 50% of households receive at least 50% of their income from benefits. Here you pay for what you use!
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Old 24.09.2012, 09:21
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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I must have stumbled on 'analenglishforum.ch' or 'swisspretendingtobeenglishforum.ch'. jeez. Perhaps you have been here too long? ;-) If you see absolutely nothing wrong with having to paying 85 CHF twice in 2 weeks to register temporary addresses one block and a bit from the previous, then you need a good dose of BR timetabling and a cornish pasty.
Remember people in he UK having to pay different poll tax rates even though they were on the same streets, not having access to certain cancer drugs or having to send their children to a school miles away because of their post code or catchment area?

Happens in the UK too. Just sayin'
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Old 25.09.2012, 01:19
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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If I go to work, I expect to be paid, if I have to redo what I did last week, why should I do it for nothing?

I think your too used to a system based tax credits, in the UK 50% of households receive at least 50% of their income from benefits. Here you pay for what you use!
I never received benefits in the UK and was a high-rate tax-payer, so I have paid my way for whatever society I have lived in all my working life. Also have not 'used' anything. So I do not see your point.

I seem to have got a lot of 'opinion' on this post. I finally found what I was looking for here: http://www.aveth.ethz.ch/cms/website...art/coming.htm

So my agent was wrong, I *did* have to re-register, and his advice cost me 65CHF. It has nothing to do with the office worker, who gets paid regardless of whether I have been a naughty boy or not, and is NOT paid directly out of my fines anyway. What narrow-minded thinking. It has got nothing to do with whether I want to pay or not - I just wanted the FACTS.
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Old 25.09.2012, 01:32
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

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Remember people in he UK having to pay different poll tax rates even though they were on the same streets, not having access to certain cancer drugs or having to send their children to a school miles away because of their post code or catchment area?

Happens in the UK too. Just sayin'
Yes but people there don't blindly accept that as the way things should be. Not the point anyway. That is not the discussion I wanted to have.

All I trying to find out was the facts, whether I got bad advice from my agent (I did) and whether I could make that case (apparently not). That is all there is to it, really. But I am getting grief for even asking the question, LOL..
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Old 13.10.2012, 12:37
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Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood. 85 Francs, please.

I just wanted to post the outcome of my visit to the Kreisburo. The lady there was really helpful. Apparently the bill was because the authorities thought I hadn't registered at all (I had). After producing my permit, and explaining the temporary nature of my accommodation, she quickly got rid of the charge, and even 'pre-de-registered' me from Zürich and gave me a letter for my new Gemeinde. So I saved another visit for that at the end of the month. Total cost: 0 CHF. Total time spent: 5 mins.

I think if you can show you are not deliberately messing up the system, and are presentable, they can be quite pragmatic.
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