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Old 02.10.2012, 19:21
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REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed up

My husband and I arrived in Geneva almost 2 weeks ago now, we went to register at the OCP in Geneva and received a temporary attestation de residence that said we would be receiving B permits and the individual who processed our paperwork confirmed that we would be receiving B permits. And what happens? Of course L permits show up in the mail today with "sans activite" for my husband (I am the primary L permit holder "avec activite"). My husband has a standing job offer with a company here and his employer was just waiting for the B permit to come in for him to start working. I have heard this happened to a number of people recently in Vaud and Geneva. The frustrating part is that his employers' immigration lawyer actually called OCP after reviewing the attestation de residence with the temporary B permit status to confirm his employment and there was no pushback from OCP. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I'm guessing there is no way to "argue" the L permit status that we now have but now we must go through the entire L permit conversion process to change it from sans activite to avec activite for him. It is so frustrating that we are told one thing and another thing shows up at the door! Especially when something as important as a standing job offer is conditional on the result... I know a lot about the difficulties that people have had with permits, but its just frustrating when it seems like its going so well and then this happens
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Old 02.10.2012, 19:30
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

There are annualized quotas on B permits, by canton. Coming to Switzerland this late in the year, there are probably no B permits left this year. Also, as Americans, you and your husband have to demonstrate that you have special and unique skills that your employer(s) could not find in the Swiss or EU job market. Regarding your husband's permit- did his potential employer begin the process of obtaining work permissions for him?
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Old 02.10.2012, 19:42
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

Yeah we are aware of the risks and the annual B permit quotas, etc. He originally had the job offer when we weren't married (just engaged) so we advanced our legal marriage so that he could at least have an L permit easily and therefore wouldn't need to surpass the quota restrictions (i.e., both of us working will only count as 1 towards the quota). We are still fairly hopefuly that they will be able to convert his permit because the job is fairly specialized, its just frustrating when you get your hopes up and make plans based on what you're told by authorities because now the employer will need to pay for an immigration lawyer to prepare the application (i.e., more money out of the employers pocket), etc. etc and wait probably a long time to hear the result. Especially with the 3 month "temporary" employment conditions here before converting to a full time employee, we were just hoping to make it as easy as possible for the employer to want to keep him....
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Old 02.10.2012, 19:44
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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There are annualized quotas on B permits, by canton. Coming to Switzerland this late in the year, there are probably no B permits left this year. Also, as Americans, you and your husband have to demonstrate that you have special and unique skills that your employer(s) could not find in the Swiss or EU job market. Regarding your husband's permit- did his potential employer begin the process of obtaining work permissions for him?
I just realized I didn't really answer your question, sorry. Before we were married his employer did start the process under an independent permit but then decided it was too much money and time and hired a Swiss employee instead, but he didn't have the specialized skills necessary, so now that we are married they want to try to hire my husband again because the process theoretically should be a bit easier this time around...
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Old 02.10.2012, 20:07
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

you can apply every 1/4 for B permits, re apply.
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Old 02.10.2012, 20:26
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

I can't believe how much poor information you are getting - both being told you'd get a 'B' and also from this forum...

If your employer can find a 'swiss' person to do the job, then they can't justify employing a foreigner..

Quotas for L's and B's for Non-EU are not the reason why you got an L. You got an L because you are Non-EU and most new Non-EU are on the L's for two years before converting to the B.

Your now-husband's employer can go through the process and get him his own work permission. I was successful in doing this in Canton Zurich and I did feel like it was quicker because I was already 'in country'.

We found ourselves in a similar situation to you when we first arrived. Had we known that I could potentially be unable to work for 2 years, we may not have come at all. On the other hand, I had an 8 month old baby when we arrived, and when I was ready to go to work, I found an employer that could meet the criteria, and it wasn't complicated...I also changed job absolutely the day that my permit changed from an L to a B!
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Old 02.10.2012, 20:47
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

Thank you swisspea, we're hopeful that it will still work, especially because they already tried hiring a Swiss local and it didn't work out because he didn't have the necessary US-related skills...

I guess I'm mainly just venting at all of the misinformation and lack of clarity that we've had so far in this process. It certainly gives me a different perspective on immigration policies in my home country.

The very confusing part to me still is the fact that his future employer's immigration lawyers even contacted the OCP last week and told them that they plan to hire my husband soon given that the attestation de residence stated that he would receive a B permit, and there was no pushback at all... ugh
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:14
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

First, welcome to the forum and congratulations on receiving a permit to move to Switzerland. I feel your pain that your expectations are not being met, but I have to say, this is not the first time that this is going to happen, unfortunately.

For your sanity and that of your husband, you need to learn to go with the flow or you are going to blow your top constantly while you are here. Feel lucky that you got an L permit and reapply for a B as soon as you can, which probably won't be for two years.

Meanwhile, once you get here, send hubby off to his prospective employer's office with his L and THEY might be able to get him his B. Maybe.

In spite of what you may have heard and in spite of what you may have read, it is very difficult to come into this country as a non-EU unless you are very well-connected (read high muckety-muck) in a large, multi-national company. I probably wasn't as politically correct or as sensitive as Swisspea, but the message is the same.

Good luck to you both and welcome to Switzerland.
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:19
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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First, welcome to the forum and congratulations on receiving a permit to move to Switzerland. I feel your pain that your expectations are not being met, but I have to say, this is not the first time that this is going to happen, unfortunately.

For your sanity and that of your husband, you need to learn to go with the flow or you are going to blow your top constantly while you are here. Feel lucky that you got an L permit and reapply for a B as soon as you can, which probably won't be for two years.

Meanwhile, once you get here, send hubby off to his prospective employer's office with his L and THEY might be able to get him his B. Maybe.

In spite of what you may have heard and in spite of what you may have read, it is very difficult to come into this country as a non-EU unless you are very well-connected (read high muckety-muck) in a large, multi-national company. I probably wasn't as politically correct or as sensitive as Swisspea, but the message is the same.

Good luck to you both and welcome to Switzerland.
Thank you for the advice, we have been dealing with the Swiss immigration laws for almost a year now, so we're pretty familiar with them and how difficult they are - I'm just frustrated with the misinformation provided by the authorities at this point. Oh well, I appreciate the advice in going with the flow We will only be here for 2 years, so he is going to try to push for a conversion to a working L permit soon, we will keep our fingers crossed and update everyone on how it goes...

I am curious though whether anyone has ever received temrpoary notification of a B permit and then received L permits in the mail and has tried to follow up/push back on it... I'm guessing it won't do any good, but I am curious if anyone out there has has tried...
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:35
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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.
For your sanity and that of your husband, you need to learn to go with the flow or you are going to blow your top constantly while you are here.
This is the best advice you will ever receive; etch these words into your memory.

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The very confusing part to me still is the fact that his future employer's immigration lawyers even contacted the OCP last week and told them that they plan to hire my husband soon given that the attestation de residence stated that he would receive a B permit, and there was no pushback at all... ugh
One thing that you soon learn about Switzerland - 'no push back' is not the same thing as 'yes'. Not by a long shot - in fact, any sort of passive response might be closer to a no. Yes is only yes when it's written, signed and dated by the person who has the authority to decide.

(Seriously - I once ran into a situation where the gov't office said yes, but then came back later saying "so sorry, we have now decided that the person who said yes didn't actually have the authority to do so - so now it's a no". )

Hoping it all works out for you. It usually does, in the end.
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:38
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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We will only be here for 2 years...
And that explains one reason why you would be issued an L...
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:51
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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there was no pushback at all...
What is a "pushback"?

Tom
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:52
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

If you are here for 2 years only it makes no difference if you have L or B.
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:56
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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If you are here for 2 years only it makes no difference if you have L or B.
besides L-holders can't claim VAT back..
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Old 02.10.2012, 21:57
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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What is a "pushback"?

Tom
I think she meant "negative feedback", in other words, she was never lead to believe that a B permit would not be forthcoming. I could be wrong, though, and I don't want to put words in her mouth, but that is how I understood her context.
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Old 02.10.2012, 22:09
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

Yes, you are correct - we were pretty sure we were getting an L permit at the beginning of the process because my contract was 2 years and because we are non-EU but the recent events (attestation de residence stating that B permit would be issued and feedback from immigration lawyer that no negative feedback was provided when she called to authorize my husband to work under what we thought was his forthcoming B permit) are frustrating because we thought we were moving along the path of a B permit

Meloncollie, thanks for the advice on this - this definitely was our first hard lesson in that Swiss mentality I suppose! The frustrating thing is that the attestation de residence was signed with a seal by the individual processing our paperwork, who we had assumed this form could be counted on as an "official" conclusion. Oh well...
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Old 02.10.2012, 22:10
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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If you are here for 2 years only it makes no difference if you have L or B.
It makes no difference to me at all, but a huge difference to my husband
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Old 02.10.2012, 22:20
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

As non-EU, even if you got the B permit, chances are your husband wouldn't have had the right to work anyway on the dependent B he gets. We are Canadian and have been here for almost 2 years automatically on the L, but are hoping to switch to B from the L as my contract is indefinite. But we've been told that hubby will still get the dependent b but will still need a company to sponsor him to work, same as with the L, so really, it doesn't matter. Your hubby will need to have the company apply for a work permit for him - but it does help that he is in the country already rather than applying from abroad, so good luck!
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Old 02.10.2012, 22:22
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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It makes no difference to me at all, but a huge difference to my husband
Well, really, it shouldn't make any difference at all to your husband. If the company that was looking to hire your husband really, really wants him, they will hire him with an L permit. It will make no difference to them. They can "make" a B permit, or an L permit avec emploi happen in a blink of an eye, if they really want to.

You are making yourself stressed about something that hasn't happened yet. BTW, you need to change your location if you are, indeed, already ensconced in this lovely land.
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Old 02.10.2012, 22:30
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Re: REALLY frustrated! Was told we would be receiving B permits and L permits showed

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Well, really, it shouldn't make any difference at all to your husband. If the company that was looking to hire your husband really, really wants him, they will hire him with an L permit. It will make no difference to them. They can "make" a B permit, or an L permit avec emploi happen in a blink of an eye, if they really want to.

You are making yourself stressed about something that hasn't happened yet. BTW, you need to change your location if you are, indeed, already ensconced in this lovely land.
Thank you for the words of encouragement, I appreciate it I am indeed already here, so I will change my location, thanks for reminding me
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