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  #21  
Old 04.10.2012, 17:20
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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On a slightly different note:

If a non-EU has a B permit for two years, tied to a particular employer, and later changes employer AS WELL AS CANTON - meaning that the new employer i believe applies for a 'fresh' permit, would the 1st two years of stay count towards the 10/12 years for the 'C'?
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Yes, to both, C and citizenship.

With regards to citizenship pay attention to cantonal/communal requirements on living in the same commune/Canton for a certain amount of the last years, depending upon commune and Canton.


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@ Bucentaure - "however, a very useful thread recently has shown that if one can advertise "good" e.g. normal integration, one could have the C also being a "normal" non-EU after only 5 years" can you please expand a bit more this? Esp the 'advertising' part.
Strangely I don't find it. Either I'm too stupid or not patient enough, or it has been merged with other threads. It was a few weeks ago that I think AliReza came up with a detailed description of how switching a non-EU B towards a C. I think users from non-EU aiming at a C should organise him a party or pay him a good holiday.


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Interesting...

Are these the steps one needs to go through before getting a Swiss passport (I have no intention of doing so myself)?
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Yes. I don't know what comes first. Local Burgerort or Canton's citizenship, however at least one of them, if not both, are given before federal citizenship. As the steps are different and also chronologically one a pre-condition of the other.


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Also, I'm trying to figure out why getting a red passport with a white Swiss army cross on it is so important for some people? Is it more desirable than any other EU passport or US passport for that matter?

Purely out of curiosity...
Advantages can be massive (besides the electoral stuff). From getting a loan to reduced tuition fees, benefits, insurance, property, rent. It can be quite another world, in some fields.
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  #22  
Old 04.10.2012, 17:36
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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I'm trying to figure out why getting a red passport with a white Swiss army cross on it is so important for some people? Is it more desirable than any other EU passport or US passport for that matter?
If you want to live here permanently, and vote, etc., it's desirable!

Tom
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  #23  
Old 04.10.2012, 17:50
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Strangely I don't find it. Either I'm too stupid or not patient enough, or it has been merged with other threads. It was a few weeks ago that I think AliReza came up with a detailed description of how switching a non-EU B towards a C. I think users from non-EU aiming at a C should organise him a party or pay him a good holiday.
I cant find it!
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  #24  
Old 04.10.2012, 18:11
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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I cant find it!
Wasn't so difficult really

Early C Permit for a Non-EU National through VINTA
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  #25  
Old 04.10.2012, 18:28
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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If a non-EU has a B permit for two years, tied to a particular employer, and later changes employer AS WELL AS CANTON - meaning that the new employer i believe applies for a 'fresh' permit, would the 1st two years of stay count towards the 10/12 years for the 'C'?
I can give you first hand information, since I went through this with immigration this week.

Since I am a non-EU citizen, I can not get automatically C permit after 5 years but need to wait 10 years for it. You could try to apply for C permit after 5 years if you prove that you have been successfully integrated.
That process is called "Vorzeitige Erteilung der Niederlassungsbewilligung auf Grund erfolgreicher Integration".

What you MUST have is:
1. unlimited B permit for 5 years (if you initially got B permit limited for 2 years from your employer, those 2 years DO NOT count)
2. no entries in Betreibungs register for last 3 years
3. no entries in Strafregister
4. never took social benefits
5. during the last 5 years you have always been employed
6. you have minimum B1 certificate in one of 3 official languages

I had all that and submitted my application 2 weeks ago.
This Monday I got information that my application is refused!

When I called them and asked why they gave me the reason:
if you have a family, ALL members of family (including kids older than 12 years) must fulfill those conditions.

So, my wife needs now to get B1 certificate and we'll try again next year.

Hope that helps...
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  #26  
Old 04.10.2012, 18:48
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Section 3.4.3.2 of this: http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/...regelung-d.pdf



If you have been student for the last five years, those years do not count towards your eligibility for a C permit unless you subsequently get employed for two years.

PhD students and academic researchers basically get completely screwed in this respect; they pay the full amount of tax and social contributions (and soon, health insurance), but never become eligible for C permits etc.
Academic researchers should be considered employed no ? Also I wonder if the taxes they pay make them eligible for unemployment benefits. PhD's are definitely student status but researchers maybe not ?
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  #27  
Old 04.10.2012, 18:48
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Since I am a non-EU citizen, I can not get automatically C permit after 5 years but need to wait 10 years for it. You could try to apply for C permit after 5 years if you prove that you have been successfully integrated.
That process is called "Vorzeitige Erteilung der Niederlassungsbewilligung auf Grund erfolgreicher Integration".
...
Exactly.

And it was not that thread
But this one here: Migration office, extremely disappointed ( Basel )

(didn't find it neither as it is in the complaints corner).


Look what Alireza Karimi is writing.
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  #28  
Old 04.10.2012, 18:53
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Actually quite surely.


And 10 years for non-EU C is not so much shorter than 12 years for citizenship. However, please consider that ordinary Einbürgerung can take up to 2 years, which makes 12 years rather result in all in all 14 years, and you must do something in those last 2 years, at least most of us just for a living, and you do need a permit in this period, too. Which can be an odd situation, to the point that a person has already got the Canton's and the commune's citizenship, but is still no Swiss yet.
And yes, most of the teenage years count double (as discussed in some threads in this part of the forum).
i dont think it is 2 yrs anymore ofr the Einburgerung folks are getting it in much less time now.
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  #29  
Old 04.10.2012, 21:59
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Academic researchers should be considered employed no ? Also I wonder if the taxes they pay make them eligible for unemployment benefits. PhD's are definitely student status but researchers maybe not ?
They are considered simultaneously employed AND in further training. Their stay here is regarded as temporary because of the latter.

They pay unemployment insurance, and receive it if they lose their job.

There is practically no legal difference between a PhD and a research position in Switzerland, even though the work and responsibilities are completely different. To be honest, it's a complete anachronism.
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  #30  
Old 04.10.2012, 22:08
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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So it seems that my friends and I are wasting the time doing phd here, since these 3 or 4 years are not gonna be counted for C permit purposes. really screwed!
There's some very good reasons for putting yourself through the 4-6 years of low pay, slowed career development, frustration and graft that a PhD entail.

Getting a work permit certainly isn't one of them.

For future reference: the details of the law referring to permits and citizenship might not be well-known, but it's all publically available and found in just a couple of minutes of Google searching. www.ch.ch and www.admin.ch are both great sites for answering questions.
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  #31  
Old 04.10.2012, 22:34
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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They are considered simultaneously employed AND in further training. Their stay here is regarded as temporary because of the latter.

They pay unemployment insurance, and receive it if they lose their job.

There is practically no legal difference between a PhD and a research position in Switzerland, even though the work and responsibilities are completely different. To be honest, it's a complete anachronism.
So if they get unemployment insurance if they lose the 'job' why are those years not considered for a C permit ? Also, I met a few folks who are non EU PhD's and after finishing are still not sure whether they will get a work permit ?? Strange after so many years of toil no ?
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  #32  
Old 04.10.2012, 22:39
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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So if they get unemployment insurance if they lose the 'job' why are those years not considered for a C permit ?
Very good question. Ask the Swiss Government.

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Also, I met a few folks who are non EU PhD's and after finishing are still not sure whether they will get a work permit ?? Strange after so many years of toil no ?
Now that researchers are going to be made to pay full-price health insurance despite all these other legal disadvantages, I think it's only a matter of time before complaints are registered with the universities and government.

People who contribute fully to the system should be able to benefit from it fully also, on an equal footing.
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  #33  
Old 04.10.2012, 22:41
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

I know US PhD's who got permanent residence right after finishing the degree.
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  #34  
Old 05.10.2012, 12:55
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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What you MUST have is:
1. unlimited B permit for 5 years (if you initially got B permit limited for 2 years from your employer, those 2 years DO NOT count)
2. no entries in Betreibungs register for last 3 years
3. no entries in Strafregister
4. never took social benefits
5. during the last 5 years you have always been employed
6. you have minimum B1 certificate in one of 3 official languages

I had all that and submitted my application 2 weeks ago.
This Monday I got information that my application is refused!

When I called them and asked why they gave me the reason:
if you have a family, ALL members of family (including kids older than 12 years) must fulfill those conditions.

So, my wife needs now to get B1 certificate and we'll try again next year.

Hope that helps...
Great concise reply, with additional details abt the fine print.

Many thanks Nemanjko.

PS Deserves a sticky, I think.
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  #35  
Old 05.10.2012, 13:07
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

The big change was the language requirement they introduced at the end of 2008 and now they want B1 for the whole family so that is the main change.
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  #36  
Old 05.10.2012, 14:01
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Also, I met a few folks who are non EU PhD's and after finishing are still not sure whether they will get a work permit ?? Strange after so many years of toil no ?
Only strange if people go through a PhD merely in order to circumvent immigration legislation, which is exactly what the government is trying to prevent.
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  #37  
Old 05.10.2012, 16:04
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Re: C Permit regulations for non-EUs

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Only strange if people go through a PhD merely in order to circumvent immigration legislation, which is exactly what the government is trying to prevent.
Nobody is doing it just to circumvent. Most feel that with their qualification, work permit should be a breeze if they get a good offer. Its too much time for anybody to do it to circumvent.
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