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Old 25.11.2012, 21:09
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downgrade from C to b permit?

hi,

on behalf of a co worker. they were issued a C permit but they dont want it, they are happy with the B due to tax issues.

acc the permit office its not possible to give it back and downgrade and the lady was upset with this request.

she told him his only option is to de register then register again

anyone know different?
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:23
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

There was something about this a few weeks ago, if you do a search. I fail to see any benefit in downgrading to a B (and indeed why give up the benefits of a C?), especially since once you are required to complete a tax return, there's no going back so the "tax issues" will remain
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:33
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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hi,

on behalf of a co worker. they were issued a C permit but they dont want it, they are happy with the B due to tax issues.

acc the permit office its not possible to give it back and downgrade and the lady was upset with this request.

she told him his only option is to de register then register again

anyone know different?
Well, I kind of get the resistance to the idea. From a Swiss perspective, why would or should anyone want to downgrade their permit? There is a clear system here in terms of the permit rules, and there are people very grateful to get the extra security that a C permit provides. I'm not surprised the lady was annoyed with the request, as for someone to want to willingly downgrade to a less secure permit due to tax reasons must seem a little like biting the hand that feeds you.
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:36
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

Ok sorry to ask but what is the difference between C and B permit? I know that with a B you are taxed at source, but otherwise?
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:40
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

person is only here 6 months of the year or less, has multiple properties, dual incomes etc so the source tax fits quite well. he doesnt need c permit security and cant be too bothered with the paperwork aspects.

i can follow the logic.
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:41
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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Ok sorry to ask but what is the difference between C and B permit? I know that with a B you are taxed at source, but otherwise?
depending on kanton there is a higher tax rate with a C permit
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:45
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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depending on kanton there is a higher tax rate with a C permit
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the source tax generally higher, as you can't make all the offsets and deductions that you can when you do the returns yourself?

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Ok sorry to ask but what is the difference between C and B permit? I know that with a B you are taxed at source, but otherwise?
Permits: What the the advantages of a C permit?
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:50
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

in the specific example i know of (not the same case in my original post) source was 15%, with self declaration it was 18%.

the person still put in a tax form under source tax and claimed for 3rd pillar, health insurance, parental support payments etc

now with a C they still claim the same plus everything else possible and the total bill is quite a few K more.
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:54
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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person is only here 6 months of the year or less,
In which case I'd advise strongly against downgrading! If they're not spending most of the year here anyway, why (I imagine the authorities will think, if they get wind of it) should the person have a permit at all? And as I said, once you lose source tax status, you can't go back on it anyway, so the point is moot.
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:56
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

got a link or something about loosing the tax at source status and i can give it to them.

for clarity person is here every other week, not absent for 6 months at a time, they just travel a lot and geminde is fully aware of this
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Old 25.11.2012, 21:57
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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in the specific example i know of (not the same case in my original post) source was 15%, with self declaration it was 18%.
Whilst you may well be correct in that particular case, the way you write that is a bit "scaremongery". It's not so much down to the canton as to the specific Gemeinde. Source tax is intended to be more or less an average of tax rates across the canton so, by definition, some Gemeinden will be higher than source and some will be lower. It's all about where you live - which is usually a matter of choice. Moreover, tax rates can and do change (including going down), and tax is only one aspect of the "value" of where you (choose to) live. It just not as simple as saying "taxes are higher on self declaration than on source tax".
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:02
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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It just not as simple as saying "taxes are higher on self declaration than on source tax".

thats why i didnt say that, because it depends on area. This case is for BS BTW.
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:12
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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in the specific example i know of (not the same case in my original post) source was 15%, with self declaration it was 18%.

the person still put in a tax form under source tax and claimed for 3rd pillar, health insurance, parental support payments etc

now with a C they still claim the same plus everything else possible and the total bill is quite a few K more.
I looked this up for a similar topic recently. At least in canton SZ he should have been making a full declaration anyway give employment was not his only income.

I generally don't contribute to threads where the beneficiary of the advice is not the OP, but since he is potentially evading tax the last 5 years just thought he should beware/ properly advised.
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:15
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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depending on kanton there is a higher tax rate with a C permit
This message obviously came from Uranus ;-)

QS is a blended rate for the canton. Direct tax will be higher or lower depending on you commune and personal tax situation.
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:27
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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This message obviously came from Uranus ;-)

QS is a blended rate for the canton. Direct tax will be higher or lower depending on you commune and personal tax situation.
For us the rate is lower than it was on QS because we live in a low tax commune. Pretty useful as Neuchatel is one of (if not the highest) taxed cantons in Switzerland.
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:39
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

If the reason for downgrading C to B is because of the taxes... then someone has their priorities screwed up.

Maybe it has been mentioned, I only scanned the posts... but there is no requirement for employment with a C, self employment is easier too. You are free to change jobs without requesting and getting permission. You are pretty much as close to being Swiss without being Swiss. You can not vote (in some cantons you can vote in local elections as a B or C permit holder) and you do not have military requirements

My advice, learn to deal with the taxes the way they are. Open a second (or third, or fourth) bank account and have a certain amount automatically deducted from your pay account and use those funds for your taxes. Works great!
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:45
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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If the reason for downgrading C to B is because of the taxes... then someone has their priorities screwed up.

Maybe it has been mentioned, I only scanned the posts... but there is no requirement for employment with a C, self employment is easier too. You are free to change jobs without requesting and getting permission.

person doesnt need permision anyway, doesnt do self employment so no benefit for a C.

not to be rude .... anyway this all going far far far away from the original purpose of the post and original question....

can it be downgraded at the wish of the holder... i m not interested in the ins and out / benefits etc as this is known.

im interested in the " especially since once you are required to complete a tax return, there's no going back so the "tax issues" will remain " statement

Last edited by rob1; 25.11.2012 at 22:57.
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Old 25.11.2012, 22:54
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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im interested in the " especially since once you are required to complete a tax return, there's no going back so the "tax issues" will remain " statement
We were told this here in Neuchatel. Once you stop paying tax at source there is no way to go back to it. Will have to dig out the paperwork we got to get all the details.
You can pay tax at source and complete a tax return though.
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Old 25.11.2012, 23:06
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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We were told this here in Neuchatel. Once you stop paying tax at source there is no way to go back to it. Will have to dig out the paperwork we got to get all the details.
You can pay tax at source and complete a tax return though.
Technically is bullshit by NE tax authorities. QS and direct tax are different systems of taxation, and completing a tax return does not make you the same as being direct taxed. Try leaving NE during the year and trying to pay all you tax for that year in you new canton (which would be the case for direct taxed) and see what they then say.

What they really mean is once you have been asked to complete a return once you will always have to. Even if eg your income just went over 120k once due to a big bonus say. This is covered in the tax regulations.
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Old 25.11.2012, 23:09
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Re: downgrade from C to b permit?

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person doesnt need permision anyway, doesnt do self employment so no benefit for a C.

not to be rude .... anyway this all going far far far away from the original purpose of the post and original question....

can it be downgraded at the wish of the holder... i m not interested in the ins and out / benefits etc as this is known.

im interested in the " especially since once you are required to complete a tax return, there's no going back so the "tax issues" will remain " statement
You are being rude actually. This is not a free advice service it's a chat forum. If that's what you want tell your buddy to go and pay for advice. It's not your thread and if we want to discuss something more interesting than your question we will.
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