Hi I just got a letter from the SEM in Bern. They send to me a letter whit 4 statements that said in general that I have committed NO crimes in my country nor In Swiss also that I have being paying my taxes in the country I live. I have to Sign the letter and print the date and re send it via our embassy back to SEM.
Can anyone comment on this? Any Idea if my proses is ending soon and God willing whit a positive outcome. Has anyone got this letter and then have being turn down…
Any comment will be highly appreciated.
Artu.

Good news! Just some patience now! Good luck!

Hi Teres,


The article you cited concerns third-generation residents (i.e., third-generation immigrants already living in Switzerland). I believe the grandmother route to simplified naturalization was closed with the passing of the new Swiss Citizenship Act effective January 1st, 2018 (English translation here: https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...0000/141.0.pdf ). However, the ordinary naturalization route remains open (and it is down to 10 years of residency under the new law).

On a personal note: if you are divorced with a son, with your former spouse living in the U.S., you may want to consider both legal custody issues and, depending on the circumstances, the benefit of your son being able to see both his parents.

Best of luck,
salutant

Hi again Teres,


In this official article from swissinfo.ch, there is a clear confirmation that simplified (facilitated) naturalization based on a Swiss grandmother is no longer available under the new law:

"From January 1, 2018, it will no longer be enough to have a Swiss grandmother or great-grandmother to qualify for a Swiss passport. The country’s new citizenship law has more stringent criteria for applicants living abroad."

Well, I'd like to add my name to the list of new Swiss! I received the letter a couple of days ago...roughly 14 months from date of interview. Facilitated from outside Switzerland.

Thanks to all those who contribute to this forum as it's been a huge help.

FS

Congratulations!

Congratulations! Very good news indeed.

Congratulations!

HI everybody
After 23 months of paper work, interview, written exam, re learning German, translations, legalizations, multiple trips to Switzerland etc etc , Me and my 3 kids got finally Our Roter Pass… many thanks for all the comments in this forum, it help me a lot mainly in keeping me on track and having an Idea of time line, and what to expect in this long long process, thank God ended whit a positive outcome.

Congrats

Congratulations - and well done! The process indeed involves a bit of effort, so remember to thank yourself for the positive outcome too

Does anyone know how important "references from Swiss who are in Switzerland" is? My mother's family all moved away or passed away a long time ago, no family left there. I'll be applying under the "born to a mother pre-1985 and missed the asylum cut off period in 1985/1986".

While I visit fairly often to work from one of our offices there, everyone I work with is an expat...there are no Swiss citizens that I know there, which is odd, but true. I've had a few of their wives who are Swiss volunteer to be a reference, but I don't know many of them very well, don't speak French around them, and would feel weird and wrong using them.

I don't excel extraordinarily in any of the other requirements, so it has me worried that not having this particular one will be a major detriment for my application.

It is a “requirement” ... you have to provide them!

Lots more cowbell, the references are a requirement and is the SEM’s way of verifying that you have indeed spent the required time in Switzerland, how well you speak a national language, your interest in the Swiss way of life, and of course verify that you have strong enough contacts with Swissies to get them to write letters of support in the first place!

From the rest of your post, it does seem like you should focus on your language skills first. Speaking a national language makes socializing with other Swiss people easier - and I gather you already spend significant time in Switzerland, so traversing the language barrier would be of great help.

Best of luck!

The forms do say they aren't mandatory requirements, and that if you excel in one, you can potentially be deficit in another.

I spend time in German speaking areas, but French is the language I speak (lower intermediate, A2-ish), so there is little to opportunity to speak it when I'm there. The Swiss are also notoriously hard to meet as a "foreigner" and get to know in my experience, which has made it hard in the past.

I've tried in Geneva and once people find out you are not from Switzerland, that's usually it for continued conversation or getting to know each other. Expats seem to be no problem, but that doesn't help here due to not being 'swiss citizens in switzerland'

In deciding on any application for Swiss citizenship, the authorities will check the formal requirments, but also the circumstances and the likelihood that the applicant can or will demonstrate some degree of integration, of Swissness, of acculturalisation.

With a statements, as you make them, that you could not manage to get to know Swiss people, neither in Geneva:
nor in Zurich:
it seems you rather disqualify yourself, which seems such a pity.

On the other hand, you've had offers:
In this case, I'd recommend that you thank those colleagues' Swiss wives, and take steps towards getting to know them better. Start an email correspondence, or phone or skype, before you get to Switzerland on your next business trip. Ask them whether they speak better English or French, and whether they'd be prepared to converse with you.

Well before arriving, set up appointments with them for dinner, a walk by a lake or river on a weekend afternoon, or a sight-seeing train trip. Ask them to bring along their husbands, as they have time, or to introduce you to other Swiss people, or perhaps you could have brunch with a number of these Swiss wives, or couples, at once.

Arrange for several such social occasions during each of your next few trips.

Since they know that it is about your application for citizenship, ask them specifically to share with you what they think is important for you to learn, as a new potential Swiss citizen, and to teach you about how things work in Switzerland, and what they cherish about life here.

If you actually do spend the time socialising with and learning from them (and anyone else Swiss to whom they may be kind enough to introduce you), then the references will become solid and real, and you'll no longer need to feel "weird and wrong" about it.

Thank you for the well thought out reply doropfiz. While easier said than done for someone who meeting new people doesn't come easily to, it's probably the reasonable path forward.

Although not always true, in general people to whom meeting new people doesn't come easily, fear that those new people will be boring/aggressive/ugly/cruel, etc., or that those new people will judge them as so being.

As soon as there is room for some common ground, though, one can shift the emphasis away from "Will they like me and will I like them?" and focus on the commonalities.

I suggest you try to recall how, exactly, it came about that those colleagues' Swiss wives offered to write references for you. Then, pick up on some part of that interaction, and use their words to reply to them, thanking them, and asking if they'd please find the time to meet for coffee next time you're in Switzerland. Bring them a small, non-ostentatious, disposable gift, such as a prettily wrapped box of cookies from a bakery near where you live. When you meet, tell them about your connection to Switerzland, and ask them whether they and all their family members have always been Swiss, and what they love about Switzerland. Ask them for their advice in getting to know Switzerland. Good luck!

My own naturalisation was so long ago that I don't recall whom I listed. But for my adult children (one minor child was naturalised with me(), more recently we used a distant German-speaking relative (we all speak fluent French), the managing director of the firm that manages our holiday flat in Montreux, the gardener in charge of the garden in our London neighbourhood (and who is registered as living in Switzerland although he lives mostly in London) and a friendly neighbour of ours in Switzerland. I also used the Swiss aunt of my son in law. We'd tried to use the gardener as the "overseas Swiss"; it was the Embassy that got back to us to tell us he could only be counted as Swiss-resident. So I myself served as the "overseas Swiss" for London, and a business contact of my son in the USA served as his overseas Swiss friend there although they'd only just met.

It seems to me this was a counting exercise. Some of the reference letters written for my children were eloquent, and always making the point that they are financially self-sufficient. Others were pro forma, including the one I wrote for my daughter.

There's lots of great advice here about references and I can't add anything, however the language requirement is important. You say you're A2 ish - there is a lot of discussion on here about the minimum requirements and it's written that for facilitated you need A2 written and B1 spoken.

I (with my German-speaking wife's help!) studied all the docs and as far as I'm aware (and please don't ask me to find the references as I can't remember) there's a subtle difference in the rules for facilitated naturalisation from overseas and from within Switzerland. The language requirement within is fixed, but from outside you need to communicate on a day to day level and be understood. That's what I took away from it. Despite that, I sat and passed a B1 exam in French prior to the application, so at least if I wasn't too good on the day I had a piece of paper that said I'd met the required standard.

The Swiss are very big (quite rightly) on people integrating, so even if you don't have that many references, you can at least prove your willingness to integrate in other ways.