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Old 11.05.2013, 11:10
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Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

Hello,

I wonder if anyone can advice me. I have been the victim of credit card fraud. I think I know where it happened because I only used the card in one store and they took the card inside their office, so they had time to photocopy the card. I found it strange at the time and then my worst fear happened. Anyway, my bank will return the charged amounts ( up to 1900 Euros) if the police will issue a paper certifying that I filed a complaint.

Well this is the problem. They donīt want to issue any paper. When I insisted they asked that the bank should send the request sirectly, which they did immediately, and still they sent to my bank only an email without any stamp or official looking paper or letterhead. Only an email signed with the name of the police offcier who attended me.

I will not go into the details of my filing the complain at the police. They made me read my rights and said that until they did research they cannot say that I didntīt do it myself. So basically I am guilty unless it is found otherwise.

So what else can I do to receive an officially stamped document so that my bank will stop the payment of the amounts and I will end the fraud problem? can I complain somewhere without the need to use a lawyer or dennounce the police?

Thank you very much for any advice.
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Old 11.05.2013, 11:51
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

The bank should act upon the email sent by the police.

When my apartment was broken into a couple of years ago I reported it to the police who typed it up on their computer and then waited for me to leave.

I asked if they were going to give or post me a copy and they said no, they'd send it directly to the insurance company.

Whatever they did, it worked fine, and the insurance company (Generali) paid up quickly without fuss.
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Old 11.05.2013, 11:56
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

Forget the police, when you dispute a credit card transaction your bank has to prove it was you otherwise they can't make you liable for it, so send a written letter to your bank disputing the transaction and asking them to remove it from your statement.
If your bank doesn't do that then contact the banking ombudsman:
http://www.bankingombudsman.ch/en/contact/address
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Old 11.05.2013, 12:13
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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The bank should act upon the email sent by the police.

When my apartment was broken into a couple of years ago I reported it to the police who typed it up on their computer and then waited for me to leave.

I asked if they were going to give or post me a copy and they said no, they'd send it directly to the insurance company.

Whatever they did, it worked fine, and the insurance company (Generali) paid up quickly without fuss.
Thanks for your answer.

Yes This seems to be the usual police procedure, only the police official didnīt answer to my bank on the name of the police office, just sent an Email and as an Emial, it was not signed or stamped or anything so my bank says whoīs this woman? and why donīt they give you a certifiaction of the complain in person?

Anyway, if I get it, the bank will send the document to the Visa card company and then the insurance will pay the fraud, not me. So I need to follow the insurance procedure if I get the police to cooperate. But, how?
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Old 11.05.2013, 12:14
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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Forget the police, when you dispute a credit card transaction your bank has to prove it was you otherwise they can't make you liable for it, so send a written letter to your bank disputing the transaction and asking them to remove it from your statement.
If your bank doesn't do that then contact the banking ombudsman:
http://www.bankingombudsman.ch/en/contact/address

Thank you, I will try that too.
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Old 11.05.2013, 12:16
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

See if you can get the bank to chase the police officer or provide some sort of form that the policeman needs to fill out.

Is it a swiss bank that you are dealing with ? Different countries have different systems, so the policeman is probably "what is the bank thinking?" and the bank is probably "what is the policeman thinking?".
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Old 11.05.2013, 13:38
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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just sent an Email and as an Emial, it was not signed or stamped or anything so my bank says whoīs this woman? and why donīt they give you a certifiaction of the complain in person?
Surely the email was sent from an official address, rather than gmail or something. If they don't like it then they can take it up with the police.

As far as I can see, you've done your bit. They need to refund you or prove that you are defrauding them.
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Old 11.05.2013, 15:16
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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See if you can get the bank to chase the police officer or provide some sort of form that the policeman needs to fill out.

Is it a swiss bank that you are dealing with ? Different countries have different systems, so the policeman is probably "what is the bank thinking?" and the bank is probably "what is the policeman thinking?".

Thank you for this message.
Yes, it is that kind of situation. Itīs a bank in Spain that doesnīt understand the swiss policies. And the swiss police that wonders why the banks needs a complaint document to start a process. In any case they donīt trust each other nor me.
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Old 11.05.2013, 17:43
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

I had a situation like this, although it was with a French credit card. The solution was simple -- I crossed the border and made the complaint in France.

In your case, it might be worth calling a police station in Spain and seeing if they will take the report over the telephone.

It's important to remember that the purpose of your complaint is not necessarily to track down the fraudsters. While the fraud may have happened in Switzerland, there's just as big a chance that it happened halfway around the world, and the source of your credit card data wasn't the credit card itself, but some data that sits in some system somewhere that was stolen.

The reason they insist on a police report is that 1) it is an official document and 2) declaring a false crime is a big crime in itself. Insisting that you always get a crime reference is the bank's way of reducing false claims.

I was surprised to have to do it in France, as this was not the procedure in the US or UK (where the bank simply sends you a form to sign, stating that you did not make the charges). But it seems it was very much the local way of doing things -- I made the report and was out of the police station in five minutes.

If you can't find a friendly Spanish police station to give you the report, perhaps you can go back to the Swiss police station, explain the situation ("I realize that this isn't normal for Switzerland, but my Spanish credit card company is insisting on something on paper before they will refund my charges"). Take along someone who speaks the local language if you don't.
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Old 11.05.2013, 18:00
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

PS - it seems you're not the first person to have the problem. Here's another thread that might be helpful:

How do you report Credit Card Fraud to the Swiss Police?
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Old 12.05.2013, 09:59
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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I had a situation like this, although it was with a French credit card. The solution was simple -- I crossed the border and made the complaint in France.

In your case, it might be worth calling a police station in Spain and seeing if they will take the report over the telephone.

It's important to remember that the purpose of your complaint is not necessarily to track down the fraudsters. While the fraud may have happened in Switzerland, there's just as big a chance that it happened halfway around the world, and the source of your credit card data wasn't the credit card itself, but some data that sits in some system somewhere that was stolen.

The reason they insist on a police report is that 1) it is an official document and 2) declaring a false crime is a big crime in itself. Insisting that you always get a crime reference is the bank's way of reducing false claims.

I was surprised to have to do it in France, as this was not the procedure in the US or UK (where the bank simply sends you a form to sign, stating that you did not make the charges). But it seems it was very much the local way of doing things -- I made the report and was out of the police station in five minutes.

If you can't find a friendly Spanish police station to give you the report, perhaps you can go back to the Swiss police station, explain the situation ("I realize that this isn't normal for Switzerland, but my Spanish credit card company is insisting on something on paper before they will refund my charges"). Take along someone who speaks the local language if you don't.

Thank you I will try to call the spanish police of my home town.
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Old 12.05.2013, 10:19
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

Yes, the concept of "denuncia" isnt really known north of the alps. Nor the concept of "unless it has a huge stamp and a signature from someone with a fancy looking title it aint real".

I feel for you and as others have suggested, your best bet is probably to do the denuncia in Spain. Or take a day trip to Italy and do it there.
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Old 14.05.2013, 12:55
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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Yes, the concept of "denuncia" isnt really known north of the alps. Nor the concept of "unless it has a huge stamp and a signature from someone with a fancy looking title it aint real".

I feel for you and as others have suggested, your best bet is probably to do the denuncia in Spain. Or take a day trip to Italy and do it there.

Going to Italy is a great Idea... Thank you.
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Old 14.05.2013, 13:06
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

i had misuse on my CC - i called the crard issuer said the items were not made by me, they sent me a template letter to fill in the details of the transactions and a declaration they were fraudulent and that was it.

I and the CC company can trace the point where the card was copied, but police... dont bother.
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Old 14.05.2013, 14:06
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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I and the CC company can trace the point where the card was copied, but police... dont bother.
rob1, I think you've missed the point here. This isn't a Swiss credit card, it's a Spanish credit card. In Spain (as in France), the credit card companies insist on a police report before they'll refund any fraudulent charges.

It's highly unlikely that the police will do any investigation, but filing the report is part of the official procedure. My suspicion is that it cuts down on people making false claims of fraudulent charges, but it may also have to do with the accounting treatment (eg, writing off theft is treated differently than writing off uncollectable debt).

In any case, no report = no reimbursement.
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Old 14.05.2013, 14:27
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

i read the whole lot before a reply.. mine wasnt a swiss card either
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Old 17.05.2013, 12:43
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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rob1, I think you've missed the point here. This isn't a Swiss credit card, it's a Spanish credit card. In Spain (as in France), the credit card companies insist on a police report before they'll refund any fraudulent charges.

It's highly unlikely that the police will do any investigation, but filing the report is part of the official procedure. My suspicion is that it cuts down on people making false claims of fraudulent charges, but it may also have to do with the accounting treatment (eg, writing off theft is treated differently than writing off uncollectable debt).

In any case, no report = no reimbursement.

Yes, you got it...
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Old 17.05.2013, 12:47
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

I have written to the spanish consulate to see if I can make a complaint there and receive a document to fax my bank. I await their answer. I am also considering the possibility to go to Italy for a day to a friend's house and do the complaint at the police there in case the consulate or embassy doens't work out.

Thank you everyone for your support and good advice.
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Old 17.05.2013, 13:00
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

Unless the fraud took place in Italy, or you are domiciled there, you won't be able to make a complaint there.

Tom
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Old 17.05.2013, 13:46
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Re: Police wonīt cooperate in credit card fraud

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Unless the fraud took place in Italy, or you are domiciled there, you won't be able to make a complaint there.

Tom
Indeed.

My thoughts:

1) you may be dealing with an officer who thinks all foreigners are thieves.

2) if the crime was outside of CH - and I am not sure if it wasn't based on your initial post, then the CH police will not want to be involved. My experience of this, was when I thought something had been stolen (my passport in France), I only realised when back in CH and so went to the police to get a report to in turn get a replacement. Was basically told "no, as lost in France, you need to get French police report". However, I argued about this being unreasonable (i.e. how can I go back to France to get a report without a passport) and they relented. But I had to push.

However, my lesson was learnt, and when I had a laptop and bag stolen in Barcelona, I went straight to the police to get my Spanish police report!
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