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Old 01.06.2013, 08:46
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Taking a break from RAV

Hi

I have been on the RAV a few months and am kind of tired of all the paperwork and meetings and wondering if ill get called to sit in some class all day. We also just had a baby, my wife is home and I kind of want a break. Finally I would like to go to a non EU country where I come from and speak the language and see if my luck is better there. When my wife returns to work this wont be possible.

So, I really want to just take a planned break from the RAV. Take off and not have to answer any questions for a while. I can afford a few months on my own and if i get a job in the meantime im happy. I'm going to keep looking for work after maybe one month of just rest.

A few questions

1 why does everybody I ask who is also at the RAV tell me I should be crazy to go off? Honestly, the 400 days don't go away as I understand it and its only a few months. If I get a job and then I miss the money from those few months so what. Then I have a job and I'm happy. I would be pleased to trade six months benefits for a job offer thank you.

2 what do I really need to get back on? As I said I'll keep looking just in a different country and a bit in Switzerland if something looks really good.

I have been given the idea that for some reason the RAV officer will make it hard for me to get off and hard for me to get back on. But I just want a mental break from social assistance. Perhaps this is hard also for them to comprehend. I'm not used the dole since we dont have it where i come from and I think it's a mental block in my search. So I want to try without

Am I crazy? Is this really a stupid move I will regret?
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Old 01.06.2013, 13:06
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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I have been on the RAV a few months and am kind of tired of all the paperwork and meetings and wondering if ill get called to sit in some class all day.
So there was one form to fill at the RAV and one for the payment office on registration and then there is a form to be submitted to each of them every month... On top of this there may be a monthly meeting with your advisor and of course you need to be able respond to them within 24 hours, if they call you. Am I missing something How are you going to cope with a job if this is all too much for you?

Of course you can sign off, but don't expect to get much when you try to go back on it.
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Old 01.06.2013, 13:40
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Of course you can sign off, but don't expect to get much when you try to go back on it.
Not true, you can take unused days at any time during the rahemnfrist. It's EXACTLY what happens if you get a job & become unemployed again during a rahemnmfrist.
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Old 01.06.2013, 13:56
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

Unused days are unlikely to add up to a few months. I would think you risk losing your permit if you're out of the country for too long. A week or two of accrued leave is one thing, several months where you're not applying for jobs in Switzerland is totally different. You can afford a few months on your own, but what about your wife? If you're not applying for jobs here the RAV payments will be reduced or stopped I believe.
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Old 01.06.2013, 14:12
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Not true, you can take unused days at any time during the rahemnfrist. It's EXACTLY what happens if you get a job & become unemployed again during a rahemnmfrist.
That is not the same thing at all, if you sign off to take up employment and it falls through through no fault of your own, then you take up where you left off. But if you simply walk away, then you have failed to comply with the unemployment rules in that you have made yourself unavailable for work and that will cost you!
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Old 01.06.2013, 15:11
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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That is not the same thing at all, if you sign off to take up employment and it falls through through no fault of your own, then you take up where you left off. But if you simply walk away, then you have failed to comply with the unemployment rules in that you have made yourself unavailable for work and that will cost you!
You can sign off for any reason at any time (including illness over 30 days which is not covered) & then return, remember the maximum benefit is 400 days in 2 years which is about 520 working days.

It will only 'cost him' for the months he is away, as you say when he is away & not actively seeking work so not entitled to anything for those days.
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Old 01.06.2013, 15:17
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Unused days are unlikely to add up to a few months. I would think you risk losing your permit if you're out of the country for too long. A week or two of accrued leave is one thing, several months where you're not applying for jobs in Switzerland is totally different. You can afford a few months on your own, but what about your wife? If you're not applying for jobs here the RAV payments will be reduced or stopped I believe.
Unused days could be anything up to 400.......it depends on how many days the OP has used up, it could easily be several months. (Edit now I understand, your talking about holiday days, I am talking about benefit days)

Clearly all RAV benefits will cease, if the OP is not available & looking for work, if that suits the OP then why not?
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Old 01.06.2013, 22:17
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

thanks everybody for the comments. Some are very helpful.

To be clear. I propose to do the following.

1. Tell my RAV officer I appreciate the support but that I would like to take some time away from the benefit (not get paid), that I will continue applying to jobs that look very interesting as opportunity arises and spend time with my family (in and outside Switzerland). During this time I would expect to recieve no money an all. But I will still look for jobs because (despite the free money) I actually want to have a career.

2. At some point in the next year I may decide that although I have been looking I could use the income and am ready to be in Switzerland every day and able to comply with all their terms. But hopefully I find a job.

Thats it. No funny business, nothing. Sorry I just don't feel great about taking this money. I feel like i should have to make my own way in the world and work and feel the pressure of that. Having this benefit is (as one person pointed out) as simple as filling in forms. But its much more than that. I just don't feel its right. Who ever said that if I couldnt' get my own bread that the state should provide it for me? If I had that attitude I would just sit on a log and wait to get the gravy train. Young people cant find jobs and I sip espresso at job interviews and get paid for it. Really?

Its a great economic saftey net and I'm grateful for it. But maybe its also taking away some of the fire I need to figure out what to do.

The statements about "not getting much when you go back" or "cost you" make me think that either I am missing some regulation that states I CANNOT go off voluntarily. Or that the part of the brain that might recognize the possibility of not wanting to have a free handout has been removed for those responding.

Therefore, i ask again. Is it technically (and within the rules) that I may voluntarily tell the RAV and the Kasse that I do not want the benefit for a period of time? And that I may go back to it later if I wish to receive up to 400 days of benefit in the two year period?

I know many people who waited months to start taking benefit. They went traveling. How is this different?

My wife and I can both leave Switzerland for several months without affecting any permit issues as she holds a C Permit. So this is not a problem.
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Old 01.06.2013, 22:55
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

Unless you keep your residence here as your permanent address she could lose the right to her C permit as well. Are you planning to keep your place here and pay rent on it? It is possible to ask your commune if your C permit can be put on hold, but the reasons for allowing this are few. If you don't get permission first, that could cause problems when you try to return.

I don't think you'd start again with 400 days on the RAV. You'd pick up where you left off, i.e. how many days you have left now. Not unless you were past the 2 year period and had worked again for another 12 months, then it would start from 400 again. I think that's how it would work, but maybe someone else knows more than me.
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Old 01.06.2013, 23:02
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Unless you keep your residence here as your permanent address she could lose the right to her C permit as well. Are you planning to keep your place here and pay rent on it? It is possible to ask your commune if your C permit can be put on hold, but the reasons for allowing this are few. If you don't get permission first, that could cause problems when you try to return.

I don't think you'd start again with 400 days on the RAV. You'd pick up where you left off, i.e. how many days you have left now. Not unless you were past the 2 year period and had worked again for another 12 months, then it would start from 400 again. I think that's how it would work, but maybe someone else knows more than me.
You can leave for upto 6 months with a C permit, longer needs special permission that is only given for a few very specific reasons.

You pick up where you left off, which due to waiting periods could be up to 400 days if 0 days had been paid out.!

If you worked for 12 months during your first rahemnfrist, you will get a max of 260 days with your next rahemnfrist. You need 18 months to get 400 days.
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Old 01.06.2013, 23:08
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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t

Therefore, i ask again. Is it technically (and within the rules) that I may voluntarily tell the RAV and the Kasse that I do not want the benefit for a period of time? And that I may go back to it later if I wish to receive up to 400 days of benefit in the two year period?

I know many people who waited months to start taking benefit. They went traveling. How is this different?
Yes you can as I have stated.

It's very different, if you don't register it will 'cost you' as insured salary is based on the last 12 or in some cases 6 months income. If you have taken a 3 month break without registering first 3 of those months have ZERO income.
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Old 01.06.2013, 23:51
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Unless you keep your residence here as your permanent address she could lose the right to her C permit as well. Are you planning to keep your place here and pay rent on it? It is possible to ask your commune if your C permit can be put on hold, but the reasons for allowing this are few. If you don't get permission first, that could cause problems when you try to return.
Thanks. My wife is only on maternity leave. Her C permit is good for ten more years. She remains employed and will do so for the foreseeable future (perhaps as I care for the child). We have no intention of giving up the flat, moving or anything else. We would only take a max three months away. The C permit allows I think up to two years if you don't work to be away. But as I said, her company is expecting her back after the maternity.
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Old 01.06.2013, 23:54
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Yes you can as I have stated.

It's very different, if you don't register it will 'cost you' as insured salary is based on the last 12 or in some cases 6 months income. If you have taken a 3 month break without registering first 3 of those months have ZERO income.
Thanks fatmanfilm, very helpful. I think its pretty clear. As I understand it my level is already set and the two years are ticking. And I have (unfortunately) not worked so the level can't be reset. So if I take too much time off I will give up some of the 400. But this is my choice and I can deal with it later.
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Old 02.06.2013, 00:01
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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If you worked for 12 months during your first rahemnfrist, you will get a max of 260 days with your next rahemnfrist. You need 18 months to get 400 days.
Im not sure what you mean here. I have the 400 days, that's clear. Or do you mean that if I take up some sort of work that the whole thing starts over again. Meaning new period of work, new reference salary, etc. I was led to believe that no matter what if I don't have work during that two year period that the daily allowance stays the same, up to 400 days.

It would be a strange incentive for them to restart your "work period" each time you took a job. This would actually be a negative incentive for people to work unless they were going to earn as much as they did before losing their job. IE, their potential benefits would automatically be reduced.

Not sure I explained that correctly.
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Old 02.06.2013, 00:13
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Im not sure what you mean here. I have the 400 days, that's clear. Or do you mean that if I take up some sort of work that the whole thing starts over again. Meaning new period of work, new reference salary, etc. I was led to believe that no matter what if I don't have work during that two year period that the daily allowance stays the same, up to 400 days.

It would be a strange incentive for them to restart your "work period" each time you took a job. This would actually be a negative incentive for people to work unless they were going to earn as much as they did before losing their job. IE, their potential benefits would automatically be reduced.

Not sure I explained that correctly.
It don't restart or recalculate, once it starts it runs for 2 years. However when it's finished if you worked for at least 12 months during the 2 year rahemnfrist you would be entitled to a new rahemnfrist based on the last 12 months....not the last 12 months of working........so if you worked for 12 months from month 1 to month 13 you would be entitled to 260 days, however the new insured salary would be 80% of 1 month decided by 12 = 700 chf a month (max possible)......so 260 days at a rate of 32.40 chf a day if you earned 10500 a month.
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Old 02.06.2013, 00:20
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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It don't restart or recalculate, once it starts it runs for 2 years. However when it's finished if you worked for at least 12 months during the 2 year rahemnfrist you would be entitled to a new rahemnfrist based on the last 12 months....not the last 12 months of working........so if you worked for 12 months from month 1 to month 13 you would be entitled to 260 days, however the new insured salary would be 80% of 1 month decided by 12 = 700 chf a month (max possible)......so 260 days at a rate of 32.40 chf a day if you earned 10500 a month.
Ah, clever and impressive what you know. The incentives are clear.

What if you worked for the last 15 months (as an example) of the first rahemenfrist but not full, so that the benefit topped up to your full benefit. At the end of the first rahemenfrist would the new benefit be calculated on the "total" that you received (earned + benefit) or just the earned.

If its the former then its really possible for people to keep dragging it out. And that doesnt seem to healthy. Again my point of just facing reality and getting creative.
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Old 02.06.2013, 00:42
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Re: Taking a break from RAV

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Ah, clever and impressive what you know. The incentives are clear.

What if you worked for the last 15 months (as an example) of the first rahemenfrist but not full, so that the benefit topped up to your full benefit. At the end of the first rahemenfrist would the new benefit be calculated on the "total" that you received (earned + benefit) or just the earned.

If its the former then its really possible for people to keep dragging it out. And that doesnt seem to healthy. Again my point of just facing reality and getting creative.
You would have earned 260 days based on what you earned over the last 12 months. Benefit is never counted, but unless you were working for less than 80% of your previous salary you wont have received anything in benefits over the last 12 months.

Basically if you don't work & claim money for 260 days or more your out of the system.

By working part time & short contracts & not claiming money, you may well be entitled to future benefits, however you can only get marginally more cash in total if your very lucky with timing (maybe 10%) but in reality you will end up with less money over 4 years than you would have got in the original 2.

The calculations get quite complicated, each month has a different no of days, so I guess in theory you could get a top up on months with 23 days but not on months with 20,21,22 days, so even working for 12 months would not count as 100% working.
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