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  #381  
Old 31.08.2020, 14:04
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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If that matters, I'm in Kreis Dietikon.
Give your Swiss citizenship back. Now. It is Bezirk Dietikon.
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  #382  
Old 31.08.2020, 14:44
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Also in the suburbs of Zurich: I had my interview with the municipality end of January, and was approved and published mid-late February: in this sense, I'm about 1 month ahead of you.

I've also had a long wait and last Thursday I got an invoice from the Kanton to pay fee for cantonal citizenship. So, if things go according to similar timeline, you might get your notification in about 3-4 weeks.

If that matters, I'm in Kreis Dietikon.

Thank you. That means there is still hope will continue to wait ---
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  #383  
Old 31.08.2020, 16:00
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

The responsible cantonal department for Zurich is here (German)

https://www.zh.ch/de/direktion-der-j...ml#-1864346150

It seems the department head is a vacant position, and nobody is responsible for M or W (which affects me )
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  #384  
Old 08.09.2020, 15:48
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

Finally some movement

April 2019: Gathered all documents, cost around 250chf
5.May 2019: Sent all papers to Kt. ZH
July 2019: received letter requesting additional document (son on application)
August 2019: Letter from Kt.ZH saying dossier sent the Gemeinde
September 2019: Letter from Gemeinde requesting one original language certificate.
October 2019: Letter stating knowledge test is prerequisite for interview and they had enrolled me for the exam. Bill for 180chf paid and learning guides /sample test received.
13 December 2019: Knowledge test completed under exam conditions
27 December 2019: Letter stating test passed (92/100), invite to be sent re town interview
13 August 2020:Letter received informing me that, due to COVID, the town to decide based on the documents/application alone.
08 September 2020: Informed that town will grant me "Gemeindebürgerrecht" (30 days after publication), bill for 500chf
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Old 08.09.2020, 17:14
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if the "attestation de domicile" that is required for the naturalisation application in the canton Vaud also states the type of permit (B,L or C) that the periods of stay were under.

I had an L permit for 6 months (job search) and a few months without any physical permit while the work permit application process was taking place.

I don't think that these periods count for the 10 year stay requirement, though there is no mention of this on the Vaud naturalisation website, just that proof of stay for 10 years needs to be submitted with the application.

thanks
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  #386  
Old 08.09.2020, 17:32
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Finally some movement

April 2019: Gathered all documents, cost around 250chf
5.May 2019: Sent all papers to Kt. ZH
July 2019: received letter requesting additional document (son on application)
August 2019: Letter from Kt.ZH saying dossier sent the Gemeinde
September 2019: Letter from Gemeinde requesting one original language certificate.
October 2019: Letter stating knowledge test is prerequisite for interview and they had enrolled me for the exam. Bill for 180chf paid and learning guides /sample test received.
13 December 2019: Knowledge test completed under exam conditions
27 December 2019: Letter stating test passed (92/100), invite to be sent re town interview
13 August 2020:Letter received informing me that, due to COVID, the town to decide based on the documents/application alone.
08 September 2020: Informed that town will grant me "Gemeindebürgerrecht" (30 days after publication), bill for 500chf
Congratulations. Glad it finally came through!
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  #387  
Old 08.09.2020, 22:29
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Hello everyone,

I was wondering if the "attestation de domicile" that is required for the naturalisation application in the canton Vaud also states the type of permit (B,L or C) that the periods of stay were under.

I had an L permit for 6 months (job search) and a few months without any physical permit while the work permit application process was taking place.

I don't think that these periods count for the 10 year stay requirement, though there is no mention of this on the Vaud naturalisation website, just that proof of stay for 10 years needs to be submitted with the application.

thanks
You can find out yourself for a fee of 35.-

https://www.lausanne.ch/prestations/...residence.html
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  #388  
Old 10.09.2020, 09:09
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

I am planning to apply for Swiss citizenship in 2 years time in Zurich. If I buy a property would it count as a positive? Showing integration?

On the other hand if the property is outside Canton Zurich, would it turn a positive into a negative i.e. "Oh! Zurich not good enough for you"
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  #389  
Old 10.09.2020, 10:41
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I am planning to apply for Swiss citizenship in 2 years time in Zurich. If I buy a property would it count as a positive? Showing integration?

On the other hand if the property is outside Canton Zurich, would it turn a positive into a negative i.e. "Oh! Zurich not good enough for you"
Property/wealth is not relevant to integration, however the amount of tax you pay can play a roll. Language, knowledge, character and behaviour are more important.

If anything, property outside Zurich could be considered more as "as soon as he gets the passport he will move away and stop paying us tax".
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  #390  
Old 10.09.2020, 14:22
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I am planning to apply for Swiss citizenship in 2 years time in Zurich. If I buy a property would it count as a positive? Showing integration?

On the other hand if the property is outside Canton Zurich, would it turn a positive into a negative i.e. "Oh! Zurich not good enough for you"
They will check if you are integrated in Switzerland, as part of it, they will confirm if you can pay your own bills in the city that you live. They are not interested if you pay rent or have 1 or more properties; therefore, the place of your property should not play any role.
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  #391  
Old 10.09.2020, 15:06
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Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

Folks
Wondering if someone would have experience from Rheinfelden or Mohlin which they could share. Many thanks.... :-)
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  #392  
Old 10.09.2020, 15:22
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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They will check if you are integrated in Switzerland, as part of it, they will confirm if you can pay your own bills in the city that you live. They are not interested if you pay rent or have 1 or more properties; therefore, the place of your property should not play any role.
In big cities like Geneva and Zürich I would agree. But the smaller the town, the greater detail they will go into, including reviewing your tax returns and perhaps asking what clubs you belong to. Because the town that accepts your citizenship becomes your "heimatsort" (home town), and historically accepted responsibility for you, even for social security costs. (I'm not sure if this is still the case).
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  #393  
Old 10.09.2020, 15:59
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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...the town that accepts your citizenship becomes your "heimatsort" (home town), and historically accepted responsibility for you, even for social security costs. (I'm not sure if this is still the case).
I might be reading your post incorrectly, so please jump in if I'm on the wrong track. The first bit is definitely true for normal naturalization - the municipality where you naturalize becomes your place of origin.

The second bit, I'm not sure. I thought it was your town of residence that is responsible for any kind of social help. That's why you have to provide proof of no social help from the local office when you're applying. If you naturalize in Zurich and later move to Luzern, it's Luzern that would pay social help. I think.
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  #394  
Old 10.09.2020, 20:41
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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You can find out yourself for a fee of 35.-

https://www.lausanne.ch/prestations/...residence.html
Thanks haha, guess that's the best way to go!
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  #395  
Old 10.09.2020, 22:30
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I am planning to apply for Swiss citizenship in 2 years time in Zurich. If I buy a property would it count as a positive? Showing integration
There's technically no such question on the application form not on the 'declaration of integration', though by signing and submitting it, you allow them to search data on you in ~10 institutions (betreibungsamt and such), so the the relevant local authority (Bürgerrechtskommission, Gemeindeparlament or Gemeindeversammlung) will probably have access to this data if they cared.

Probably not out of the question that the topic might come up during discussion in the gemeinde, I doubt they'll ask directly, but you can probably use it to your advantage (better outlook on you staying and paying taxes). My Einbürgerungsgespräch is still in the future, so all of that is just pure speculation.
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  #396  
Old 10.09.2020, 23:02
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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the town that accepts your citizenship becomes your "heimatsort" (home town), and historically accepted responsibility for you, even for social security costs. (I'm not sure if this is still the case).
Historical. But has only been fully abolished on 8. April 2017
AS 2015 319 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/official...n/2015/319.pdf
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  #397  
Old 10.09.2020, 23:27
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I am planning to apply for Swiss citizenship in 2 years time in Zurich. If I buy a property would it count as a positive? Showing integration?

On the other hand if the property is outside Canton Zurich, would it turn a positive into a negative i.e. "Oh! Zurich not good enough for you"
Would that property also be your official place of residence ?

If yes I would check for any effects that may have on your naturalization as a change of Gemeinde could possibly reset the counter as far as Gemeinde requirements are concerned .

On the other hand owning property is not an impediment . I own property both in Spain and in Hungary (and they know this ) and so far this has not been held against me and I’m at the Bund level having both city and canton of Zürich approval .

On the other hand I have quite a few positive ticks to my name . Done volunteer work and also involved in several Vereine , having seved on the commitees of two even, so I guess that is good enough as far as Integration goes
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  #398  
Old 11.09.2020, 10:58
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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The second bit, I'm not sure. I thought it was your town of residence that is responsible for any kind of social help. That's why you have to provide proof of no social help from the local office when you're applying. If you naturalize in Zurich and later move to Luzern, it's Luzern that would pay social help. I think.
As pointed out in this post, it's only recently been abolished (which is why I put in the caveat of historical relevance). This is one reason though for many towns having long residency requirements before application.

I just saw the publication of my name on the town website. As this was the first such publication in 10 months, I was joined by 30 others!
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Old 14.09.2020, 23:25
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

"For fun" I browsed through the cantonals (Zurich) laws/docs about naturalization, and found some interesting documents:

1. Geschäftsbericht 2019 Dietikon (my Bezirke, though not my Gemeinde) - https://www.dietikon.ch/_docn/2593517/GB_2019_eVers.pdf - The number of 2019 naturalization applications were 62 - 42 were approved, 11 were postponed, 5 were rejected and 5 applicants didn't show up. I see similar numbers for my Gemeinde, where only ~3% of applications are rejected and ~10% of people don't show up or withdraw their application. Look for Geschäftsbericht for your commune if anyone is interested in that.

2. The Canton wants to implement the new Kantonales Bürgerrechtsgesetz (KBüG), in place of the current Gesetz über das Bürgerrecht and the Verordnung, project: https://www.zh.ch/bin/zhweb/publish/...chtsgesetz.pdf, and here's the output from the consultation process:https://www.vzgv.ch/sites/vzgv.ch/fi...ntar_kbueg.pdf - a short analysis:
  • ~50% of Gemeinden would like to increase the Sprachkompetenz level from the current B1/A2 (oral/writing) to B2/B1 (oral/writing). SVP and 2 communes want to test Schweizer-Deutsch as mandatory (doesn't seem to have much support though)
  • The costs in the range of 800CHF-1500CHF are discussed, currently it's 500CHF max
  • There's proposal by SVP and some communes to increase the number of years in the Gemeinde from 2 to 5, but it doesn't seem to have much support
  • As above, SVP and few Gemeinden postulate to increase the number of years with regard to financial obligations (confirmation from the tax office, and from the Betreibungsamt) from 5 to 10 years, again, not much support for that from the communes

3. The canton wants to go digital with naturalizations - https://www.zh.ch/de/news-uebersicht...verfahren.html - starting with 2022 it should be possible to both apply electronically and check the status of the process on the interwebz (yay).

4. Naturalization manual for the Canton - https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/...ngen_v_2.1.pdf - nothing new, but it clarifies a few things, for example it says that it's ok to send employment confirmation from the employer instead of their specific form, and few other clarifications in this vein

5. A document stating whether the KDE/other-exam and the Grundkentnistest must be taken before or during the naturalization process (per Gemeinde): https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/...ispruefung.pdf. For example for my commune it says that I can (must) take the KDE (though I also have another B1 cert) and Grundkentnistest before (vor) the process, so I did w/o even asking my Gemeinde for an advice. I feel as though many people are unsure about that, ask Geimeinde for a guidance, what makes the process longer.


My current diary

end of July 2020 - passed KDE
August 2020 - gathered docs, gotten permit C (thx to KDE), passed Goethe B1 (not necessary, but I had signed up for it much earlier), passed the Grundkentnistest
beginning of September 2020 - sent everything to the Gemeindeamt and waiting
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  #400  
Old 15.09.2020, 10:49
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

Some interesting points!

My Gemeinde doesn't have a yearly report, at least not an openly published one.

The revised law change also mentioned that many parties would support removing the minimum town residency requirement completely, given it is reduced relevance in the current times. However they stayed in the middle at 2 years. I am not sure if this change will force towns currently requiring more than two years to align.

As we talk a lot about timelines, the following Handbook points are interesting (if a native speaker could confirm):

*8.4.4 Explains that the applicant can expect the application to be processed within a "reasonable" timeframe (?)
*8.4.6 The Federal government will usually issue a "citizenship permit" within 8 months of receiving the documents from the Kanton, and that once returned to the Canton, they will need to decide within 12 months. Time limits for other processing steps are not mentioned.


I mentioned the digital project back here. Agreed it would definitely take the uncertainty out of the process, but an application submitted today would almost certainly be finalised before this is implemented.
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Last edited by litespeed; 15.09.2020 at 11:42. Reason: added the time limits
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