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  #641  
Old 02.02.2021, 17:56
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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+1 on this... our ball got delayed ~8months due to this Zivilstandsregister, and this was before Covid.
However, I do believe this Zivilstandsregister is very much dependent on the applicants' documents. In our case, it got delayed because they need "authenticated" birth certificate for my 2 kids not born in CH. And authentication can only be done by the Swiss Embassy in the country of birth.
What was their country of birth?

I had to order a birth certificate from the UK (these things have an expiry date apparently) and what they sent me back was a photocopy of a hand-filled in form (with a spelling error that fortunately nobody has ever noticed, or at least not commented on), with I think a stamp of authentification. So not really a high quality of document but the Zivilstandsregister accepted it and I got the confirmation within weeks.
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  #642  
Old 02.02.2021, 17:56
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Awesome, and good luck! Zivilregister is also important, you can't get the ball rolling without it.

Oh, and you say "switch" from blue to red? Only worth doing if you are a US citizen keen to ditch dual-taxation If you are an Australian or Canadian, you'll have to keep/renew the blue one in order to return home (no doubt you'd want to keep any of these!)
SEM called, they'd like to discuss the definition of "home" with you
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  #643  
Old 02.02.2021, 18:40
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Awesome, and good luck! Zivilregister is also important, you can't get the ball rolling without it.
I guess we need to have our kids' birth certificates (we have the original ones) apostilled by the Swiss embassy in their country of birth, then?
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  #644  
Old 02.02.2021, 20:12
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I guess we need to have our kids' birth certificates (we have the original ones) apostilled by the Swiss embassy in their country of birth, then?
Only the respective competent authority can put an apostille on a document.
Who the competent authority is depends on who has issued the document. In some countries it is a single centralized authority in others it goes all the way down to state level, like Switzerland or the USA. This means for example for a birth certificate from a commune in the canton Zurich, only the canton Zurich can put the appropriate apostille on it.

The competent authorities are listed here:
https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/...ities1/?cid=41

The embassy can only check and verify the authenticity of the document. This is normally only needed in situations and countries where the document is, from the Swiss pint of view, of questionable provenance and also in case were the document is from a country which is not a member of the Hague Convention. A birth certificate for example from Germany might not even need an apostille. Never the less get one, as it is simpler to get it, even if not needed, than to order all anew if it is needed.
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  #645  
Old 02.02.2021, 20:32
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Only the respective competent authority can put an apostille on a document.
Yes, I understand. By apostilled I meant that after it's "verified by the local authorities" (via some sort of legalisation), the Swiss embassy must apostille it (meaning that they verify the local government verification, and stamp that as well). Thus the document gets the issuing government's legalisation, and on top of it an extra one from the foreign embassy.
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  #646  
Old 03.02.2021, 03:52
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Yes, I understand. By apostilled I meant that after it's "verified by the local authorities" (via some sort of legalisation), the Swiss embassy must apostille it (meaning that they verify the local government verification, and stamp that as well). Thus the document gets the issuing government's legalisation, and on top of it an extra one from the foreign embassy.
The "some sort of legalisation" is the apostille. An apostille is a very specific term and form of legalisation.
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  #647  
Old 03.02.2021, 13:02
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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The "some sort of legalisation" is the apostille. An apostille is a very specific term and form of legalisation.
That's only true for states participating in the Hague (Apostille) Convention. For all other states it must be certified by the state by some local means and then the consulate of the document's intended destination country (in this case Switzerland) performs another round of verification (which is also not called an apostille ).
I heard that for some Hague convention signatory states Switzerland sometimes requires consular re-certification of apostilles issued there even though it technically shouldn't (e.g. in India).
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  #648  
Old 03.02.2021, 16:12
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+1 on this... our ball got delayed ~8months due to this Zivilstandsregister, and this was before Covid.
However, I do believe this Zivilstandsregister is very much dependent on the applicants' documents. In our case, it got delayed because they need "authenticated" birth certificate for my 2 kids not born in CH. And authentication can only be done by the Swiss Embassy in the country of birth.

I just went through the "Zivilstandsregister" procedure for my child (I have a separate thread about it) and was very worried about such an outcome. In Covid times, with EU documents (no apostille needed, no translations, as it was on an "international form" according to the Vienna convention on civil status documents) it took about a month.


This is a bit morbid, I know, but what happens if you die here and you're not registered in their system? How long does it take for survivors to get a death certificate if you first need to get all new birth certificates for the deceased... or is the process a bit faster?

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I guess we need to have our kids' birth certificates (we have the original ones) apostilled by the Swiss embassy in their country of birth, then?

Ask the Zivilstandsamt (civil registry office). They will specify, for your country, what kind of document they need.


For my kid, who was born in one EU country but has citizenship of another, I obtained both birth certificates, as it was easy and fast. I still had to choose which kind of birth certificate I needed, as there are two kinds from the country of citizenship and three kinds from the country of birth. I know entirely too much about all of this.


Call the civil registry office and they will tell you which documents are needed for your specific situation.

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I guess we need to have our kids' birth certificates (we have the original ones) apostilled by the Swiss embassy in their country of birth, then?

You say you have the original ones... they want new originals, less than 6 months old. Which is not a problem if you were born in certain countries, but quite an obstacle in others.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.02.2021 at 20:21. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #649  
Old 04.02.2021, 12:32
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

I followed your advice and I called my local Register. They checked our info in their system and, because our youngest daughter was born here in Switzerland, the whole family is already logged in the Zivilstandsregister, and we don't need to do anything else. I guess I should play the Lotto this week.
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  #650  
Old 04.02.2021, 12:43
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I followed your advice and I called my local Register. They checked our info in their system and, because our youngest daughter was born here in Switzerland, the whole family is already logged in the Zivilstandsregister, and we don't need to do anything else. I guess I should play the Lotto this week.
Great! But get ready to spend a bit of money on formal documents..just about every piece of paper you need from the Gemeinde will cost you 30chf each (except Betreibung certificate...I think this is still a bargain at 17chf :-D) Not sure if you can get these per family.
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  #651  
Old 04.02.2021, 13:57
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

Also, for those concerned, Vaud does away with the official citizenship ceremony until at least end of May.
Meaning there's a strong chance I've been practicing my double Windsor for nothing ...
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Old 04.02.2021, 20:03
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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If you didn't have anything entered in the criminal record, I wouldn't list anything. The key phrase to me (as translated with deepl) is "Liste des Fait(s) reproche(s)" which translates as "List of Chargeable Event(s)."

You can probably order a criminal record extract online to be sure.
Replying to my post here so posterity so that others may benefit. Consistent with replies from forum members I also ended up asking the Service des Naturalisation directly this question. They replied clearly that they are not interested in parking tickets rather only the instances where I may have been arrested by the police or if there was a complaint filed against me.
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  #653  
Old 04.02.2021, 23:48
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Also, for those concerned, Vaud does away with the official citizenship ceremony until at least end of May.
Meaning there's a strong chance I've been practicing my double Windsor for nothing ...
Does anyone have any idea what the final letter would entail if there is no ceremony?
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  #654  
Old 05.02.2021, 09:39
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

I was asked recently what new or different rights or duties would naturalization would allow for in Switzerland that I don’t currently enjoy with my permit C ? I suppose the biggest is the only ones are the right to vote, to elect, to be elected and to serve in the military. What else am I missing ?
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  #655  
Old 05.02.2021, 10:56
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Does anyone have any idea what the final letter would entail if there is no ceremony?
Acte d’origine (Heimatschein), if married a Certificat de famille (Familienausweis) , maybe a new attestation d'établissement (Wohnsitzbestätigung) and maybe a nice citizenship certificate, a nice worded letter in lieu of a speech, and maybe a book about the canton or the commune.
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  #656  
Old 05.02.2021, 11:33
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I was asked recently what new or different rights or duties would naturalization would allow for in Switzerland that I don’t currently enjoy with my permit C ? I suppose the biggest is the only ones are the right to vote, to elect, to be elected and to serve in the military. What else am I missing ?
A permanent right to return and take up residence after being absent for an arbitrary time that also extends to your descendants?
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  #657  
Old 07.02.2021, 01:47
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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just about every piece of paper you need from the Gemeinde will cost you 30chf each (except Betreibung certificate...I think this is still a bargain at 17chf :-D) Not sure if you can get these per family.
IIRC the Bescheiningung from the tax bureau costs 50CHF or maybe even 80CHF (don't remember now exactly). And I needed them from 2 cities (they need to cover the last 5 years).
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  #658  
Old 07.02.2021, 18:12
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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A permanent right to return and take up residence after being absent for an arbitrary time that also extends to your descendants?

This is of particular relevance if you are non-EU, in which case leaving Switzerland for more than 6-12 months on a C-Permit can endanger your residency.


And for me it will mean no longer standing in the "All other Passports" queue at ZRH passport control
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Old 08.02.2021, 02:43
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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I was asked recently what new or different rights or duties would naturalization would allow for in Switzerland that I don’t currently enjoy with my permit C ? I suppose the biggest is the only ones are the right to vote, to elect, to be elected and to serve in the military. What else am I missing ?
Based on my own country's laws, and assuming CH is not that different, these are probably (speculation warning)

- political rights
- ability to be hired for certain positions: national security related, maybe rocket science (literally, e.g. only US citizens can work at technical positions at SpaceX, maybe the same applies to certain positions at e.g. RUAG)
- greater range of obtainable national security clearances
- greater protections against extradition/deportation
- unconditional ability to return to the country (doesn't depend on peace/war or treaties)
- maybe ability to serve as a jury (does this function exists in CH judicative? It's vestigial in my own EU country, but it still exists there for e.g. divorce cases).
- depending on your original citizenship, visa-free, e-visa or visa-on-arrival access to more destinations
- if married to a non-citizen, the partner can obtain C-permit and citizenship faster (naturalization must happen before the marriage though)
- ability of renounce the original citizenship if desired (read: US citizens and their problems with dual taxation)
- support of one more embassy when abroad
- time/money savings (not sure if this will ever offset naturalization costs) related to permit renewals
- a simplified procedure for obtaining citizenship of another canton/commune
- technical ability to be hired as a member of the papal guard

There might be even more nuanced/informal ones like better chances when renting apartments and maybe being hired at some positions/companies.

Last edited by rjagger; 08.02.2021 at 02:55.
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  #660  
Old 08.02.2021, 10:36
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Re: Normal Naturalisation - applicant diary

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Based on my own country's laws, and assuming CH is not that different, these are probably (speculation warning)
My take on the list as a Swiss citizen:

- political rights.
+ A given. And a shame foreigners on C cannot vote at least on the commune level. Taxation w/o representation?

- ability to be hired for certain positions: national security related, maybe rocket science (literally, e.g. only US citizens can work at technical positions at SpaceX, maybe the same applies to certain positions at e.g. RUAG)
+ In most police forces you must be Swiss. Some Federal position have restrictions, however it looks like RUAG has, in general, no such restrictions. https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetr...airId=20153025
An other institution were nationality is important is the CERN. Usually, only those of the member nations can regularerely work there. Fellowship Research positions however are not restricted.

- greater range of obtainable national security clearances
+I never encountered that outside of the military. Looks like I work in the wrong field.

- greater protections against extradition/deportation
+But not immunity from law enforcement. See Art. 5 - 7 Swiss Criminal Code.. In case of felonies you will be tried and imprisoned in Switzerland.

- unconditional ability to return to the country (doesn't depend on peace/war or treaties)
+Correct.

- maybe ability to serve as a jury (does this function exists in CH judicative? It's vestigial in my own EU country, but it still exists there for e.g. divorce cases).
+No more juries. Has been abolished 2011.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/ch-gesc...ultur/17963628
However you can become a Justice of Peace which acts as the first instance in civil cases.

- depending on your original citizenship, visa-free, e-visa or visa-on-arrival access to more destinations
+ And an ID card which is accepted as a travel ID in most European countries plus a few more. Handy for those like from the UK where no such ID card exists.


- if married to a non-citizen, the partner can obtain C-permit and citizenship faster (naturalization must happen before the marriage though)
- ability of renounce the original citizenship if desired (read: US citizens and their problems with dual taxation)
- support of one more embassy when abroad
+ Do not count on any "support" from a Swiss embassy. The "selber schuld" principle also extends to abroad.

- time/money savings (not sure if this will ever offset naturalization costs) related to permit renewals
+Maybe together with the above mentioned visa free travel.

- a simplified procedure for obtaining citizenship of another canton/commune
+ It actually can be harder to get a second citizenship from another commune as there are no federal regulations and it is mostly up to the commune to set the conditions.

- technical ability to be hired as a member of the papal guard
+ For this you also need to be catholic, male, younger than 30 years old, have never been married, and most importantly have served in the Swiss military. https://schweizergarde.ch/paepstlich...raussetzungen/
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