Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12.07.2013, 10:43
diamondscan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 281
Groaned at 12 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 110 Times in 65 Posts
diamondscan has become a little unpopulardiamondscan has become a little unpopular
Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Hi all,

I was living in Zürich where the nice people at the Stadthaus told me that I could probably already start my naturalisation application this year because this year I am 3 years married to a Swiss and 5 years in Switzerland and obviously the last 12 months in Switzerland too. They even recommended that I might apply a couple months early because the processing time is so long.

But we juuust moved slightly outside of Zürich city into the Bülach municipality and my Gemeindehaus has informed me that in order to apply I must first be in my town for one complete year. (He also said something about how I must wait totally 3 years, totally 5 years and this extra one year in the town is good for me to prove that I'm really not in a sham marriage, not that he doubts that...)

Is this BS? I mean, I guess I could wait another year, but considering that the whole process is probably 1-2 years, I'd really rather start it sooner because we might think about moving in 2.5-3 years and I'd like to have the passport well before we think about moving.

I thought I read on an old thread that one initially applies for naturalisation directly to the BFM. I also thought that being married to Swiss means the naturalisation is not on the Kantonal level (and we didn't even move Kantons... just towns/municipality). So I don't get where this arbitrary "one year in one town" rule comes from.

Help? Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12.07.2013, 11:05
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,092
Groaned at 2,420 Times in 1,761 Posts
Thanked 39,100 Times in 18,438 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

You apply at your local commune, the heimatort of your spouse is the place that does all the work, but the conditions are federal, and not dependent on either the local commune or the heimatort of your spouse.

Don't know where this one year rule is coming from.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12.07.2013, 11:22
diamondscan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 281
Groaned at 12 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 110 Times in 65 Posts
diamondscan has become a little unpopulardiamondscan has become a little unpopular
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

So if this guy randomly decides I need to be living in the town for a whole year, I can be held up because he won't help me/let me apply?

I'm debating calling him back, but I don't want to sound really pushy. I've just had so much trouble getting the right permits in the past because everybody you call has a different answer about where and how to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.07.2013, 12:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
I'm debating calling him back
If you want to be Swiss one day, you don't call him back for anything else than listening to what he says. It doesn't matter where laws come from, what matters is solely how they apply. At the Gemeindehaus, they might have a flyer or some written documentation on that, their website might describe the steps to take. People have different ways to explain things, if it's unclear with one person, find other sources for the same thing.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
This user groans at Faltrad for this post:
  #5  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:12
diamondscan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 281
Groaned at 12 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 110 Times in 65 Posts
diamondscan has become a little unpopulardiamondscan has become a little unpopular
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
If you want to be Swiss one day, you don't call him back for anything else than listening to what he says. It doesn't matter where laws come from, what matters is solely how they apply.
People with Swiss spouses go through facilitated naturalisation on a federal level, without cantonal requirements that you need if you are applying for standard naturalisation. On the BFM website, they mention the 3 years, 5 years and one year living in Switzerland. It does not specify anywhere that there are any cantonal or municipal requirements. Stadthaus Zürich had also confirmed there are no cantonal requirements for this type of naturalisation. My local town website only says to contact this guy about naturalisation. This is the first I have ever heard of municipal requirements, so I wondered if anyone else on EF applying for facilitated naturalisation could shed some light on this.

Maybe you just do not have any experience following the advice of a Gemeinde or city, only to be told from immigration later that you should have applied directly on the federal level. I have had clerks in Kreisbüros and Stadthauses tell me false information and I have been reprimanded by the BFM for not knowing what I am supposed to do when I've followed the advice from my Gemeindehaus.

I am not so stupid to believe they are all correct even when they contradict one another.

It would be a pity to believe something is a law just because some worker got confused what are the differences between facilitated and normal naturalisation.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

I was living in Zürich where the nice people at the Stadthaus told me that I could probably already start my naturalisation application this year because this year I am 3 years married to a Swiss and 5 years in Switzerland and obviously the last 12 months in Switzerland too. They even recommended that I might apply a couple months early because the processing time is so long.
On a side note and to share my experience, I did that and it did not work.

Married in July 2009, I applied in December 2011 (thinking that 6/8 months head start would help).
All went fine (i.e. confirmation that the process was triggered in December, received the first communication/requests in January 2010, etc.) but, in July 2012 I have been requested to resubmit all documents related to my wedding i.e. familienausweis, signature from the wife confirming we are still married etc.

So to make a long story short, the process is only really triggered when the wedding is reaching the 3 years milestone.
This being said, as soon as I sent those documents, it went fairly quickly (July/August is certainly not the best period to initiate anything) and I am now swiss since 2 months i.e. 9/10 months all in all.
I could have probably saved the 40Chf or so that I had to pay to have all documents re-established.

JvJ
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
People with Swiss spouses go through facilitated naturalisation on a federal level, without cantonal requirements that you need if you are applying for standard naturalisation. On the BFM website, they mention the 3 years, 5 years and one year living in Switzerland. It does not specify anywhere that there are any cantonal or municipal requirements. Stadthaus Zürich had also confirmed there are no cantonal requirements for this type of naturalisation. My local town website only says to contact this guy about naturalisation. This is the first I have ever heard of municipal requirements, so I wondered if anyone else on EF applying for facilitated naturalisation could shed some light on this.
Nope, no local or cantonal requirements, this is only managed at federal level.

Now, the canton and the local commune are being consulted (and can appeal a decision...) which usually result in the police paying you a nice visit and asking if you know the capital of switzerland, the name of the countries bordering switzerland and eventually checking if you have underwears in the "family" wardrobe...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Hello,

The person in the Bülach Gemeinde is talking rubbish. It is nothing to do with them at all. They only have to provide you the stamp that says you have been there for x months. And that you have the stamp from the others in Zürich that you were here for y months. x+y must be greater than 12 months.

Usually this is anyway on your permit and that will do. The whole process is National and you can live and move anywhere in Switzerland you want, when you want as long as your other half moves with you all the time. The only thing you need to prove is that your marriage is successful and that you meet the 5,3,1 minimum requirements. 5 years total in Switzerland, 3 years married and last 12 months in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

I was living in Zürich where the nice people at the Stadthaus told me that I could probably already start my naturalisation application this year because this year I am 3 years married to a Swiss and 5 years in Switzerland and obviously the last 12 months in Switzerland too. They even recommended that I might apply a couple months early because the processing time is so long.

But we juuust moved slightly outside of Zürich city into the Bülach municipality and my Gemeindehaus has informed me that in order to apply I must first be in my town for one complete year. (He also said something about how I must wait totally 3 years, totally 5 years and this extra one year in the town is good for me to prove that I'm really not in a sham marriage, not that he doubts that...)

Is this BS? I mean, I guess I could wait another year, but considering that the whole process is probably 1-2 years, I'd really rather start it sooner because we might think about moving in 2.5-3 years and I'd like to have the passport well before we think about moving.

I thought I read on an old thread that one initially applies for naturalisation directly to the BFM. I also thought that being married to Swiss means the naturalisation is not on the Kantonal level (and we didn't even move Kantons... just towns/municipality). So I don't get where this arbitrary "one year in one town" rule comes from.

Help? Thanks!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Richard for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

No, no no...

The grounds of appeal are strictly limited and the only reason for a visit and it might well happen is to show the marriage is legitimate. Often they go and ask your neighbours!!!

There are no integration requirements. By integration I mean language tests, history tests etc. You need to respect the laws etc and have a good reputation still...


Quote:
View Post

Now, the canton and the local commune are being consulted (and can appeal a decision...) which usually result in the police paying you a nice visit and asking if you know the capital of switzerland, the name of the countries bordering switzerland and eventually checking if you have underwears in the "family" wardrobe...

Last edited by Richard; 12.07.2013 at 13:43. Reason: just clarifying a point
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
The only thing you need to prove is that your marriage is successful and that you meet the 5,3,1 minimum requirements. 5 years total in Switzerland, 3 years married and last 12 months in Switzerland
I second that but your best half must have been Swiss before your wedding (just in case...)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 12.07.2013, 13:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
No, no no...

The grounds of appeal are strictly limited and the only reason for a visit and it might well happen is to show the marriage is legitimate. Often they go and ask your neighbours!!!

There are no integration requirements. By integration I mean language tests, history tests etc. You need to respect the laws etc and have a good reputation still...
Yes... And no...
One of the Federal requirements is the "integration" and to ensure you are well integrated, they ask the local commune to do a quick investigation (and thus the police).
Yes, the grounds of appeal are strickly limited but there is definitely a questionnaire which is filled by the police and returned to the justice departement: Check page 26 for an example of the questionnaire (in French) and especially page 31 for the "integration" part.

Now, I agree, there is no test as such but a "rating" which help defining your level of integration.

(Btw, the police asked me for the capital of Switzerland, the bordering countries, to name 3 lakes and 5 political parties - my wardrobe was safe though ;-) )
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12.07.2013, 14:52
diamondscan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 281
Groaned at 12 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 110 Times in 65 Posts
diamondscan has become a little unpopulardiamondscan has become a little unpopular
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Thanks both! I was pretty sure that the person in Zürich saying it was OK to apply early would be wrong. (Another reason why you just can't trust that all clerks speak the "law"). The guy in Bülach did say I need to have all documents under 3 months old when I apply which makes sense. And he did say there is no language test or anything although I think it was pretty important that we were conversing in German on the phone.

And yes, husband was Swiss by birth so no problems there. I will anyway wait until 3 and 5 are absolutely fully completed.

JeanValJean, did you apply directly to BFM yourself by requesting the forms on their website?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12.07.2013, 14:57
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,092
Groaned at 2,420 Times in 1,761 Posts
Thanked 39,100 Times in 18,438 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
(Btw, the police asked me for the capital of Switzerland, the bordering countries, to name 3 lakes and 5 political parties - my wardrobe was safe though ;-) )
Can't remeber what I spoke about with the police, other than our (the cop's and mine) asshole neighbor.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12.07.2013, 15:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
JeanValJean, did you apply directly to BFM yourself by requesting the forms on their website?
Nope, through the Gemeinde
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12.07.2013, 15:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
Can't remeber what I spoke about with the police, other than our (the cop's and mine) asshole neighbor.

Tom
Hope you did not figure out that you are nachbar...
But yeah, more chitchat than anything else for sure, nothing violent at all!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12.07.2013, 15:46
diamondscan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 281
Groaned at 12 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 110 Times in 65 Posts
diamondscan has become a little unpopulardiamondscan has become a little unpopular
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
Nope, through the Gemeinde
Darn... then if he wants me to arbitrarily wait I must wait.

I think I'm going to ask the local Gemeindehaus where I work (also in ZH but a different municipality) if they have any different rules or what their take is on it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12.07.2013, 15:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
Darn... then if he wants me to arbitrarily wait I must wait.

I think I'm going to ask the local Gemeindehaus where I work (also in ZH but a different municipality) if they have any different rules or what their take is on it.
Wait, let me re-phrase.
I got the papers in the Gemeinde but sent them myself to the BFM !
So I guess you can also download them in their website...
No issue here (sorry my post was confusing !)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12.07.2013, 15:50
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,092
Groaned at 2,420 Times in 1,761 Posts
Thanked 39,100 Times in 18,438 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
Hope you did not figure out that you are nachbar...
Oh, I knew he lived in the next building, which is why I brought up the subject.

It showed I was integrated!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13.07.2013, 00:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

They did used to ask these kind of dumb questions in best thickest Swiss German but that is a thing of the past. The last three people I know who chose the factilitated naturalization were not even seen by anyone. The spouse was required to sign that they were still living together and married though... And what investigative work they do with the neighbours and the Gemeinde is unknown apart from to the Americans who know everything these days.

Quote:
View Post

(Btw, the police asked me for the capital of Switzerland, the bordering countries, to name 3 lakes and 5 political parties - my wardrobe was safe though ;-) )
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 13.07.2013, 00:38
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,092
Groaned at 2,420 Times in 1,761 Posts
Thanked 39,100 Times in 18,438 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Facilitated naturalisation: Moving town, not canton

Quote:
View Post
The spouse was required to sign that they were still living together and married though...
Not in my case, but we did have two kids born in our village, and attending the local schools.

Language would have been a problem, as neither of us spoke the local language very well (both native English speakers with French as a second language, and crappy German and little Italian). Actually, as far as a Swiss language goes, my French was far better than anything my Swiss wife could speak!

(she was from Tronna and had married a Zurcher)

Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
facilitated, kanton zurich, moving, naturalisation




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Facilitated naturalisation Guest Permits/visas/government 30 31.12.2013 12:54
facilitated naturalisation styjk Permits/visas/government 5 26.09.2012 15:48
Facilitated naturalisation of child Pff..atrick Permits/visas/government 3 02.09.2011 00:12
Divorce and Facilitated Naturalisation maple Family matters/health 3 21.05.2008 04:26
Facilitated Naturalisation - Compulsory Notifications litespeed Permits/visas/government 0 03.02.2007 00:23


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0