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Old 25.07.2013, 18:18
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Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

My potential employer in Ticino is working on preparing a formal open-ended job offer along with the B permit application. I'd really like to get the B permit, though, instead of getting an L permit which seems to happen if the quotas have been hit.

Some posts on EF seem to indicate that almost all non-EU just get the L permit by default to start out with even if they have the open-ended contract and apply for the B - is this the case?

I've seen references to quotas being renewed per-quarter, so would it be worth waiting to submit the application when a new quarter starts?

Is Ticino more likely to have room in the quota compared to the larger cantons with greater numbers of international businesses?

Assuming the company can prove the need for non-EU, I get the feeling from reading EF posts that a permit of some sort (either B or L) will be provided - is this the case or are there actually significant numbers of complete rejections?
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Old 25.07.2013, 18:23
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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My potential employer in Ticino is working on preparing a formal open-ended job offer along with the B permit application. I'd really like to get the B permit, though, instead of getting an L permit which seems to happen if the quotas have been hit.

Some posts on EF seem to indicate that almost all non-EU just get the L permit by default to start out with even if they have the open-ended contract and apply for the B - is this the case?

I've seen references to quotas being renewed per-quarter, so would it be worth waiting to submit the application when a new quarter starts?

Is Ticino more likely to have room in the quota compared to the larger cantons with greater numbers of international businesses?

Assuming the company can prove the need for non-EU, I get the feeling from reading EF posts that a permit of some sort (either B or L) will be provided - is this the case or are there actually significant numbers of complete rejections?
Do you have a spouse you are bringing with you? Their ability to work seems to be the main advantage of the B over the L for non-EU.

You also hear about some mobile phone companies not giving contracts for L (they wouldn't for us, but now we're paying less with pre-pay anyway), or credit card companies not giving credit cards (the first one wouldn't for us, but the second did).

Generally, a company won't go through the trouble of the permit process unless they think they can get through it and bring you in.

Most everything I've heard about quotas/timing seems to be third-hand. All the Americans I've known (in Canton Zurich) who have entered this year have gotten L permits, regardless of when they entered.
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Old 25.07.2013, 18:42
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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Do you have a spouse you are bringing with you? Their ability to work seems to be the main advantage of the B over the L for non-EU.
Yes, I am bringing a spouse ...and in addition to the possible rent/credit card/phone issues with the L, I'd also prefer to not have my employer have to prove again in 2 years that they need me to have a B permit. I'm also concerned about the potential for L permits to not be renewed in the future if there continues to be increasing tightening of non-EU permits. Finally, if we continue to fall in love with the country which seems very possible, we like the idea of being able to get the C permit sooner instead of having to wait through the 2 extra years of an L-permit.

It certainly isn't too much of a problem, but I figured it would be worth investigating if there was anything we could do to help our chances of receiving a B permit immediately.

Thank you very much for the info!
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Old 25.07.2013, 19:38
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

I found this on the bfm.admin website about the EU-25 quotas:

"For EU-8 nationals the quota for residence permit (type B permit) is 545. Contingents will be released every three months on the following dates: 1 May 2013, 1 August 2013, 1 November 2013 and 1 February 2014.

For EU-17 nationals the quota for residence permit (type B permit) is 13 428. Contingents will be released every three months on the following dates: 1 June 2013, 1 September 2013, 1 December 2013 and 1 March 2014."

There's no allocation of permits canton by canton, it's first come, first served.

What the figure is for non-EU's I have no idea though. What I also don't know is what effect, if any, bringing in quotas for EU-17 nationals has on the non-EU side of things. Does it mean there are more permits available for non-EU's, the same as before, or less? Are the figures mentioned per quarter or for the year?
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Old 25.07.2013, 22:09
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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What the figure is for non-EU's I have no idea though. What I also don't know is what effect, if any, bringing in quotas for EU-17 nationals has on the non-EU side of things. Does it mean there are more permits available for non-EU's, the same as before, or less?
Right - It would be interesting to know the answers to these kinds of questions.

Thank you for the numbers and the information about quotas not being distributed to cantons!
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Old 25.07.2013, 22:20
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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Yes, I am bringing a spouse ...and in addition to the possible rent/credit card/phone issues with the L, I'd also prefer to not have my employer have to prove again in 2 years that they need me to have a B permit. I'm also concerned about the potential for L permits to not be renewed in the future if there continues to be increasing tightening of non-EU permits.

It certainly isn't too much of a problem, but I figured it would be worth investigating if there was anything we could do to help our chances of receiving a B permit immediately.

Thank you very much for the info!
Granted you get a B permit, it's got to be renewed every year too (or every 2 years, and renewal isn't guaranteed either. If you get the L instead , the only hassle would be the 2 added years wait to get a C. I feel that you're so decided to move here permanently. Who knows, that feeling could change after a year or two? I wish you luck.
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Old 25.07.2013, 22:37
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

Best inform yourself about the US's new FATCA law and how that will affect banking possibilities here. There are lots of threads on the forum about the problems people have been having. And in case you don't know, Americans have to file US tax returns, and possibly pay US tax, no matter where they live in the world. Lots on the forum about dealing with that too.
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Old 26.07.2013, 10:41
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

It is preferable to secure a B permit for the sake of having access to amenities not immediately available to L permit holders. Provided you are gainfully employed by a major company, you should get your B within 2 years.

However, from the point of view of securing a C Permit, no worries. I secured mine after 2 years on an L and 3 years in a B; uninterrupted residence with gainful employment since entry date is what counts (some B Permits, like regular student ones, don't count towards a C by the way).
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Old 26.07.2013, 12:22
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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I feel that you're so decided to move here permanently. Who knows, that feeling could change after a year or two? I wish you luck.
Thank you! Yes things could most certainly change, but I figure there is no harm in understanding the process better if there are small things we could do to put ourselves in a better position. I've been reading everything I can, but it seems that there are still a lot of unknowns about exactly how the quotas work currently (at least, as documented online in English).

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Best inform yourself about the US's new FATCA law
Yes, I have seen those posts and have contacted my representative to complain about the unnecessary burden being placed on expats. This is another reason I figure it wouldn't hurt to have the full B permit instead of being seen as a very temporary L permit holder that might not be worth opening an account for.

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However, from the point of view of securing a C Permit, no worries. I secured mine after 2 years on an L and 3 years in a B; uninterrupted residence with gainful employment since entry date is what counts (some B Permits, like regular student ones, don't count towards a C by the way).
Aha! OK - I can cross this off the list of benefits to getting the B immediately! Thank you!
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Old 26.07.2013, 20:14
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

Not all C permits issued by the canton of Ticino are equal. A key difference between the C permit issued to European citizens and the C permit issued to third-country citizens is point 1 of the PDFs linked below.


In the case of the C permit issued to European citizens the permit is valid throughout Switzerland. "Il permesso di domicilio è valido in tutta la Svizzera."

http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DI/DI_DI...zaCCE-AELS.pdf


In the case of the C permit issued to non-European citizens the permit is valid only in the canton of Ticino. "Il permesso di domicilio è valido unicamente per il territorio del Cantone Ticino."

http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DI/DI_DI...ertenzaCST.pdf


http://www4.ti.ch/di/spop/stranieri/...i-domicilio-c/
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Old 26.07.2013, 20:57
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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Not all C permits issued by the canton of Ticino are equal. A key difference between the C permit issued to European citizens and the C permit issued to third-country citizens is point 1 of the PDFs linked below.


In the case of the C permit issued to European citizens the permit is valid throughout Switzerland. "Il permesso di domicilio è valido in tutta la Svizzera."

http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DI/DI_DI...zaCCE-AELS.pdf


In the case of the C permit issued to non-European citizens the permit is valid only in the canton of Ticino. "Il permesso di domicilio è valido unicamente per il territorio del Cantone Ticino."

http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DI/DI_DI...ertenzaCST.pdf


http://www4.ti.ch/di/spop/stranieri/...i-domicilio-c/


All C Permits are valid for settlement only in their respective cantons (hence that is why it is issued at a cantonal level). In order to move cantons, one would have to deregister from Ticino (effectively cancelling that permit) and reregister in a new Canton in order to receive a new C Permit.

It makes absolutely no sense to suggest that one could settle in Valais with a Ticino C Permit. Ticinese law does not apply to Valais.
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Old 26.07.2013, 21:00
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

Swiss Federal Law (which overrides Ticinese law):

Das Aufenthaltsrecht ist unbeschränkt und darf nicht an Bedingungen geknüpft werden. Das Bundesamt für Migration legt das Datum fest, ab welchem die zuständigen kantonalen Behörden die Niederlassungsbewilligung frühestens erteilen dürfen.

Le droit au séjour est de durée indéterminée; il n’est assorti d’aucune condition. L’Office fédéral des migrations fixe la date à partir de laquelle l’autorité cantonale compétente peut délivrer l’autorisation d’établissement.

Queste persone godono di un diritto di soggiorno illimitato e non vincolato a condizioni. L’Ufficio federale della migrazione fissa la data minima a partire dalla quale le autorità cantonali possono rilasciare il permesso di domicilio.


There is absolutely no difference between a non-EU and an EU C Permit (except for the credit card format that non-EU citizens get theirs in).
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Old 26.07.2013, 21:25
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

I see that brusch, but I wonder why the difference in the first place. As an EU citizen my permit covers all of Switzerland, but of course if I move from Fribourg canton to another I'd have to register at my new migration office and they would issue a new C permit. Which would be the same procedure for a non-EU. So why the different wording?
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Old 26.07.2013, 21:29
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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I see that brusch, but I wonder why the difference in the first place. As an EU citizen my permit covers all of Switzerland, but of course if I move from Fribourg canton to another I'd have to register at my new migration office and they would issue a new C permit. Which would be the same procedure for a non-EU. So why the different wording?
I honestly have no idea. Settlement (C) Permits are not dealt with in Swiss-EU bilateral agreements (instead they are dealt with in bilateral agreements with individual countries or rules issued by the Swiss government on a country by country basis).
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Old 26.07.2013, 23:02
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

You may find a L permit is quite undesirable. They can actually extend beyond 24 months. We entered on a L permit for a short-term 9-month assignment. When that expired and I was switched to a local contract, my company applied for a B permit and instead, our L permit was renewed. We got to 2 years on the L permit and were sure we'd finally get the B permit, but Swiss government have changed the rules and can extend L for up to 4 years we were told. We had no problems with securing a bank account (even as US citizens), but were unable to get a credit card (had to select pre-paid).
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Old 27.07.2013, 14:03
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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Swiss government have changed the rules and can extend L for up to 4 years we were told.
Ugh - thank you for bringing up that possibility
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Old 30.08.2013, 12:18
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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It is preferable to secure a B permit for the sake of having access to amenities not immediately available to L permit holders. Provided you are gainfully employed by a major company, you should get your B within 2 years.

However, from the point of view of securing a C Permit, no worries. I secured mine after 2 years on an L and 3 years in a B; uninterrupted residence with gainful employment since entry date is what counts (some B Permits, like regular student ones, don't count towards a C by the way).
A B Permit, like a regular student one, does count towards a C permit, if employment through a B Permit is taken up subsequent to the student Permit. Please do not spread misinformation.
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Old 30.08.2013, 14:28
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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I see that brusch, but I wonder why the difference in the first place. As an EU citizen my permit covers all of Switzerland, but of course if I move from Fribourg canton to another I'd have to register at my new migration office and they would issue a new C permit. Which would be the same procedure for a non-EU. So why the different wording?
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I honestly have no idea. Settlement (C) Permits are not dealt with in Swiss-EU bilateral agreements (instead they are dealt with in bilateral agreements with individual countries or rules issued by the Swiss government on a country by country basis).
There is absolutely no difference between EU and non EU permits as far as territorial validity is concerned. I don't know where ticino got their idea that "permits are only valid for ticino" - pushing that to the extreme one could suggest once you travel outside ticino but within Switzerland you are not in possession of a valid swiss residence permit.

True enough, you can't move to another canton with your ticinese permit - as you have to get a new one issued... but suggesting the relocation possibility does not exist for non-EU is preposterous.
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Old 01.09.2013, 14:02
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

Ausländergesetz, Article 34 - Niederlassungsbewilligung

5 Vorübergehende Aufenthalte werden an den ununterbrochenen Aufenthalt in den letzten fünf Jahren nach den Absätzen 2 Buchstabe a und 4 nicht angerechnet. Aufenthalte zur Aus- oder Weiterbildung (Art. 27) werden angerechnet, wenn die betroffene Person nach deren Beendigung während zweier Jahre ununterbrochen im Besitz einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung für einen dauerhaften Aufenthalt war.1


The bold part above says that residence permits for studying (B Permits) are counted towards a C permit if you gain employment in Switzerland for 2 years after the study period.
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Old 22.09.2013, 20:40
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Re: Improving the chances of getting a non-EU B work permit?

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My potential employer in Ticino is working on preparing a formal open-ended job offer along with the B permit application. I'd really like to get the B permit, though, instead of getting an L permit which seems to happen if the quotas have been hit.

Some posts on EF seem to indicate that almost all non-EU just get the L permit by default to start out with even if they have the open-ended contract and apply for the B - is this the case?

I've seen references to quotas being renewed per-quarter, so would it be worth waiting to submit the application when a new quarter starts?

Is Ticino more likely to have room in the quota compared to the larger cantons with greater numbers of international businesses?

Assuming the company can prove the need for non-EU, I get the feeling from reading EF posts that a permit of some sort (either B or L) will be provided - is this the case or are there actually significant numbers of complete rejections?
I got an L permit valid for a year, even though I have an unlimited permanent work contract. My husband and I are in the position where he will now not be able to work until we can get a B permit. This is a problem, obviously. Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about it though.
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