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Old 11.09.2013, 10:57
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Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal request

I am non-eu (US citzen) on unemployment (RAV).
Received a letter from immigration stating that my B permit will not be renewed. The letter asks for a response in the next 10 days as to my appeal. The letter sites the laws of the alien act and their reasoning for not renewing my permit.

The letter sites Art. 30, 33, 62, 96. Which can be found here for those who are interested: http://www.bdm.bs.ch/dms/bdm/downloa.../142_20_de.pdf

My understanding is that it boils down to:
*my permit was tied to my job and that my job is over that I don't have a reason to be here
*interest in integration, applying for jobs outside Switzerland, the majority of my life has been spent outside of Switzerland

I wasn't expecting this as it seems most B permits get renewed as long as you still qualify for RAV. I am having trouble finding a similar case of needing to write an appeal letter.

I did come across this from the immigration website: "In practice, an annual permit is normally renewed as long as its holder is able to draw a daily allowance from the unemployment insurance. In such cases, however, the holder is not actually entitled to a renewal of the permit."
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...willigung.html

I am looking for help/advice on:
*Has anyone had to write an appeal letter in a similar situation?
*Has anyone changed their visa type in this case B to L?
*Is it worth it to consult an immigration lawyer now or after their decision? (Advice is all over the board on this).

Please let me know if you have any help, advice, similar experience, or resource suggestions.
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Old 11.09.2013, 11:49
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

It might help if you provide some facts like how long employed and how long RAV benefits last. If your benefits are about to run out, there is likely not much ground to stand on. It is my understanding that when no longer on RAV, there is no justificaiton for permit. On the other hand, if unemployment benefits are expected to last a year or more, then RAV should renew permit.

You might also want to so some self-relfection on what your job prospects are here and reason for wanting to stay. If indeed in a specalised field with limited employers there may be greener pastures elsewhere and better to move on before you are out of the job market for a long time. Generally the longer you are unemployed the harder to get back in the job market.
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Old 11.09.2013, 16:05
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

To the best of my knowledge, the best you can do now is get yourself over to a professional, who would look at your dossier and draft an appeal for you (not a letter, but a proper document in German). Situations like yours are dealt with on case-by-case basis. However, if your permit was indeed tied to your employer, there might be no grounds to appeal. Good luck.
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Old 11.09.2013, 19:17
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

You wouldn't be able to change the permit type to enable you to stay. Changing from a B to an L wouldn't be possible, you're still without a job so as far as the authorities are concerned there's no reason to give you a permit of any type.

Evaluate your job prospects and then decide if it's worth the expense of hiring a professional to handle your appeal.
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Old 11.09.2013, 19:52
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

boston617, is the timeframe within which you are to leave the country, should you choose not to appeal, stated in the letter which you received?
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Old 12.09.2013, 12:29
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

In answer to the questions:
1. Timeframe: The letter gives no timeframe or amounts specified outside of date of they need a letter, it says: you will be asked to leave in sometime (not specified) and if you do not write an appeal you will be charged a fine (no amount specified). Seems they are giving themselves room to deal with things on a case-by-case basis.
2. Permit tied to job: yes my permit says with gainful employment, but all other information I was reading seemed to say that if you were on unemployment insurance that you would get your permit renewed unless you had committed a crime. Including the excert I included from the federal website on permits
3. RAV: I have 1 year left of RAV
4. Profressional help: The immigration office did give me some more help and sent me a link to this group which is free and I have made an appt. with them:
http://www.auslaenderberatung-basel.ch/Englisch.html
This group seems to handle a lot of issues for foreigners, shame had not come across it before.
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Old 12.09.2013, 14:40
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

Thank you very much for taking time to post the answers and I really hope things work out for you.
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Old 24.09.2013, 19:24
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

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Thank you very much for taking time to post the answers and I really hope things work out for you.
In such case, what's if you try to enroll in a college to have the residence permit renewed ?

If you have to leave before the end of RAV-supported period, would you receive the remaining in a lump sump ?

what does the RAV Consultant suggest ?
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Old 24.09.2013, 19:55
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

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If you have to leave before the end of RAV-supported period, would you receive the remaining in a lump sump ?

what does the RAV Consultant suggest ?
No a lump sum will not be paid out if you leave the country, you have to be actively looking for work each & every month a payout is made.

A RAV consultant may not be helpful as it's their job to reduce any claim on the insurance.
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Old 19.11.2013, 19:16
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

Hi All,

I also received a letter from the Migrationsamt stating that my application to have me B Permit renewed has been rejected. I am non-EU (Australian) and have been living in Switzerland for the past 6 years. I became unemployed as of the end of October of this year. I am already registered with the appropriate authorities. (i.e. RAV and ALK).

The letter cited Art 33 and Art 63 as grounds for non-renewal of my B Permit. In short, my B Permit was originally granted for the reason of employment (In my case, my B Permit was not tied to a particular employer, as I have since switched employers and Canton). As I am now unemployed, I do not fulfill the above criterion.

I was asked by the Migrationsamt, to write a letter to appeal their decision not to renew my B Permit.

The information posted by boston617 and the others has been very helpful.

I have already contacted the organisation in Basel, who have referred me onto the folllowing organisation within the City of Zürich:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...sh.secure.html

Does anyone else have first-hand experience in writing a successful letter of appeal to have their B Permit extended? Would you be able to offer some advice on what information to include, or to whom I should seek advice from?

I speak Goethe B2-level German, am a masters degree qualified engineer and have been employed for almost the entire 6 years (except for several months a couple of years ago, after being made redundant) that I have lived in Switzerland.

Any advice would be highly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
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Old 19.11.2013, 21:35
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

I'm so sorry you are in this situation. I have nothing smart to add... you do hear on the forum that EU people have no problem with immigration while receiving RAV payments, while non-EU people seem to run into problems of their (one-year!) permits not being extended. The two-tier system at work again.

This will not help you now, but did you consider applying for early C permit when you had a job and you were here for more than 5 years? With your knowledge of German, it seems like you would have been likely to get it.
Do you think you might get a job in your remaining time? Best of luck, this sounds like a really hard situation to face.
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Old 19.11.2013, 22:14
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

I'm in a similar situation - non-EU (Russian) on unemployment pay. I didn't get my warning letter yet, but I'm expecting it any day and I don't see my permit renewed anyhow.
Although I find the idea mentioned by asiah in a previous post excellent - to enroll for education which will allow to get a student visa while probably still qualifying for unemployment pay. Looks like a solution to me.
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Old 20.11.2013, 00:30
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Hi Liquidpaper,

Thank you for your comments.

According to the Migrationsamt in Zürich, as a non-EU, I would only be able to apply for a C Permit after living in Switzerland for 10 years. - Otherwise the only other options would be to marry a Swiss or as Duncheg has suggested, enrol in further education.

I have interviewed for 3 positions in Switzerland and 3 positions overseas (as a back-up) in the past month. I may be fortunate enough to receive a job offer in Switzerland in the near future. The Migrationsamt may also respond positively to my letter of appeal, if I am lucky.

Hi Duncheg,

Not all non-EU persons that become unemployed will automatically be prevented from having their B Permit renewed. I have known several non-EUs that have had their B Permits renewed while being unemployed. You may end up being one of the lucky ones.

Further study may also be an option to stay in the country. Maybe someone else has had first-hand experience going down this path?

I hope it works out for you! All the best!

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.08.2014 at 18:17. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 20.11.2013, 08:19
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

It sounds like there is so e sort of standard procedure about visa renewals and unemployment, and a process where you have to 'show cause' why they should renew your permit apehe on unemployment benefits.

I would imagine they would also look at it differently if you have children or a spouse who is also integrated and working...

Personally, if my husband lost his job and was unable to find something else within 6 months, I would take a very long and hard look at other options.

At the end of the day the b permit for non-eu is not permanent residency, and I guess the appeals process is a chance for you to argue that you are really determined to integrate and be working I Switzerland, and paying taxes, all the way to retirement and beyond...and find a job, whatever it takes...

Good luck with your job search.

As for the integration support and information for foreigners, we were invite to an information evening when we first arrived in Switzerland, and it was very valuable, and they even made allowances and our three children were included and given something to do whilst we attended them seminar, and the we were given a walking tour of the town and a huge package of helpful information, so I certainly think they make a big effort and the social services structure is quite comprehensive when you need it.
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Old 20.11.2013, 17:19
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

JAA, I recalled some additional info that might be of some use. I don't remember where it came from but here it is. I understood that if the person is not on unemployment pay and has some savings, then he or she has better chances.
BTW, did you try to address to a lawyer or fiduciary that deals with permits? They should know better than us, mere mortals.
In my case, I'm already selling my stuff and the idea that my permit will be renewed kind of scares me
I've been unemployed since April this year and I've got almost 0 chance to find something here due to my specialization. Good chance to get married though I didn't mention it in my previous post, but several people already told me that I'm well integrated (speak French, play in a local football team) but what would I get eventually if I stay for another year unemployed?
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Old 22.11.2013, 23:20
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

Hi Duncheg,

I am taking it up with a lawyer that is based in Zürich.

I have had job interviews for companies here in Switzerland, where I am still waiting on feedback. I am also interviewing with companies overseas as back-up.

If there is a high level of likelihood that you will marry a Swiss, then you have got a much better chance of staying here than most.

I am still curious if there is anyone else out there that has had first hand experience being in this situation?
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Old 23.11.2013, 00:40
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Hi All,

I also received a letter from the Migrationsamt stating that my application to have me B Permit renewed has been rejected. I am non-EU (Australian) and have been living in Switzerland for the past 6 years. I became unemployed as of the end of October of this year. I am already registered with the appropriate authorities. (i.e. RAV and ALK).

The letter cited Art 33 and Art 63 as grounds for non-renewal of my B Permit. In short, my B Permit was originally granted for the reason of employment (In my case, my B Permit was not tied to a particular employer, as I have since switched employers and Canton). As I am now unemployed, I do not fulfill the above criterion.

I was asked by the Migrationsamt, to write a letter to appeal their decision not to renew my B Permit.

The information posted by boston617 and the others has been very helpful.

I have already contacted the organisation in Basel, who have referred me onto the folllowing organisation within the City of Zürich:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...sh.secure.html

Does anyone else have first-hand experience in writing a successful letter of appeal to have their B Permit extended? Would you be able to offer some advice on what information to include, or to whom I should seek advice from?

I speak Goethe B2-level German, am a masters degree qualified engineer and have been employed for almost the entire 6 years (except for several months a couple of years ago, after being made redundant) that I have lived in Switzerland.

Any advice would be highly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
hi Jaa, i had visited Infodona and the initial experience I had with them is excelllent. They are very supportive. How did you write the appeal letter ?

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Hi All,

I also received a letter from the Migrationsamt stating that my application to have me B Permit renewed has been rejected. I am non-EU (Australian) and have been living in Switzerland for the past 6 years. I became unemployed as of the end of October of this year. I am already registered with the appropriate authorities. (i.e. RAV and ALK).

The letter cited Art 33 and Art 63 as grounds for non-renewal of my B Permit. In short, my B Permit was originally granted for the reason of employment (In my case, my B Permit was not tied to a particular employer, as I have since switched employers and Canton). As I am now unemployed, I do not fulfill the above criterion.

I was asked by the Migrationsamt, to write a letter to appeal their decision not to renew my B Permit.

The information posted by boston617 and the others has been very helpful.

I have already contacted the organisation in Basel, who have referred me onto the folllowing organisation within the City of Zürich:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...sh.secure.html

Does anyone else have first-hand experience in writing a successful letter of appeal to have their B Permit extended? Would you be able to offer some advice on what information to include, or to whom I should seek advice from?

I speak Goethe B2-level German, am a masters degree qualified engineer and have been employed for almost the entire 6 years (except for several months a couple of years ago, after being made redundant) that I have lived in Switzerland.

Any advice would be highly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Thanks Jaa for the link... well ... i just realise it would need 10posts to be able to see button "thanks" !

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.08.2014 at 18:18. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 23.11.2013, 23:26
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

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Hi Duncheg,
If there is a high level of likelihood that you will marry a Swiss, then you have got a much better chance of staying here than most.
JAA, if only "getting married" or "getting married a Swiss" was my goal... I'd rather work for another year and request an accelerated "C" permit
BTW, got my permit renewal letter yesterday but will go to the migrants office to renounce my permit next week due to the departure mid-December
Wishing you all the luck in your affair! I like your persistence and determination.
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Old 08.12.2013, 18:02
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Sorry for not getting back to you but I had nothing to say as I had heard nothing. Finally heard from migration. Been given 90 days. Would love to hear more about if the lawyer was worth it. Might have to find one in Basel.

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Hi Duncheg,

I am taking it up with a lawyer that is based in Zürich.

I have had job interviews for companies here in Switzerland, where I am still waiting on feedback. I am also interviewing with companies overseas as back-up.

If there is a high level of likelihood that you will marry a Swiss, then you have got a much better chance of staying here than most.

I am still curious if there is anyone else out there that has had first hand experience being in this situation?
Would love to hear if the lawyer was worth it.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.08.2014 at 18:18. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 03.01.2014, 17:42
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Re: Help! B-permit non-eu Unemployed on RAV; permit not renewed letter, appeal reques

Hi boston617,

I ended up not needing to contact a lawyer, as I accepted a job offer from overseas in mid-December.

I therefore submitted a letter to immigration stating that I wished to cancel my B Permit by the end of January, which they have accepted.

Best regards,

JAA
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