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Old 18.11.2013, 14:25
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Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

Definition of "worker"

Transitional provisions in new member states
See the green ones in the graph.

As an EU citizen you can stay for an unlimited time in Switzerland - at least in theory in the broadest sense.

Maybe it's a naive question I could not figure out by search. Can a self sufficient (foreign income, self employed, just want to spend money in CH) EU citizen just come and set up shop in Switzerland, eg. be a tax and healthcare resident? After all, it's a country with a nice tax and healthcare system so it sounds like a reasonable idea but I don't know if you can just simply do it.
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Old 18.11.2013, 14:43
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

Yes, assuming you are no Bulgarian or Romanian.

You need to register at the commune/municipality of residence. Show them your rental contract/proof of address, Passport/ID card, photo, proof of sufficient income/sufficient funds to support yourself and proof of medical insurance. If you don't have it yet you have three months to sort it out or they will assign on to you.

Then you need to take your business plan to the AVS/AHV(?) office and get them to approve your self employed status, get your AVS number and pay your contributions.

With the quota thing, you may get an L permit instead of a 5 yr B.

If you search EF and ask the oracle you will get all the info you need and more.

PS, why am I looking at the green graph exactly?
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Old 18.11.2013, 14:52
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Yes, assuming you are no Bulgarian or Romanian.

?
Not quite true, MiniMia. I know at least two cases who (relatively recently) did this, but of course we are talking about a lot of money.
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Old 18.11.2013, 14:59
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Not quite true, MiniMia. I know at least two cases who (relatively recently) did this, but of course we are talking about a lot of money.
I didn't say they couldn't come. It's just they don't have the option of free movement, ie just turning up. Don't shoot the messenger.

Bulgarian, Romanians and Croatians (who are often forgotten to be mentioned) need to check out the regs for themselves on the official sites.
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Old 18.11.2013, 15:27
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Definition of "worker"

Transitional provisions in new member states
See the green ones in the graph.

As an EU citizen you can stay for an unlimited time in Switzerland - at least in theory in the broadest sense.

Maybe it's a naive question I could not figure out by search. Can a self sufficient (foreign income, self employed, just want to spend money in CH) EU citizen just come and set up shop in Switzerland, eg. be a tax and healthcare resident? After all, it's a country with a nice tax and healthcare system so it sounds like a reasonable idea but I don't know if you can just simply do it.
No, like everything else in Switzerland you need approval. If you want to be self-employed here you'll need to convince the authorities that your business idea is viable and have enough financial funding to keep you going for a while. Here's a couple of links:

https://www.ch.ch/en/becoming-self-employed/

http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00614...x.html?lang=en

For foreign income/retirement, etc, again you'll need to prove to the authorities that your funds are sufficient for you not to be a drain on the Swiss social services.

But yes, if you can meet the requirements then there's nothing to stop you as an EU national moving here to live as a resident of Switzerland.

Free movement applies to all EU citizens if they're wealthy enough not to have to work here miniMia:

Bulgaria and Romania

Protocol II on extending the free movement agreement to Romania and Bulgaria (EU-2) took force on June 1, 2009. Employees and service providers from these countries will initially be subject to interim provisions, however.
Switzerland has decided to continue restrictions on citizens from Romania or Bulgaria until 2016 at the latest. Thus, citizens from these countries are facing restricted access to the Swiss labor market and are subject to special quotas. Domestic workforce can be given precedence over Romanian and Bulgarian citizens, and salary and work conditions may be checked by the authorities. The same holds for service providers doing business in certain sectors.
When staying in Switzerland without gainful activity (students, pensioners, etc.) and in matters of family reunion, citizens of all EU and EFTA states enjoy the same rights.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...rumaenien.html
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Old 18.11.2013, 15:47
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

Personal experience from a week ago.
We are moving to Switzerland in 2014.
After reading so much on internet and forums (SUPER CONFUSED) I rang the Swiss Embassy in London:
I asked them: We want to move to Switzerland.
Embassy: What passport do you have?
Me: British
Embassy: You can move to Switzerland.(Free Movement of Persons Switzerland – EU/EFTA)
Me: I find it difficult to get a job from UK, will the local visa permit be problem. Embassy: You should prove to local authorities you financial situation.
Me; When I mentioned to the Embassy worker that we are selling a house in UK and will have some savings with us.
Embassy: On the bases of savings you will get the local permit. You are going to be fine.
I then rang "Office de la population - Geneve" and they confirmed this.
It was a relief to me.
There is lots of wrong advice out there on the internet.

This is the law.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch//content/bf...z-eu-efta.html

Free Movement of Persons Switzerland – EU/EFTA

On June 21 1999, the European Union and Switzerland signed seven bilateral agreements including the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons, which came into force on 1 June 2002. The right of free movement is complemented by the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, by the right to buy property, and by the coordination of social security systems. The same rules also apply to citizens of EFTA member states.

As a result of EU eastern enlargement on 1 May 2004, the agreement was supplemented by an additional protocol containing provisions for the gradual introduction of the free movement of persons as well in the ten new EU member states. The protocol came into force on 1 April 2006. In a referendum on 8 February 2009, the Swiss electorate approved the continuation of the Free Movement of Persons Agreement after 2009 and Protocol II on extending the Agreement to Romania and Bulgaria. The election result confirms Switzerland’s commitment to the Bilateral II agreements. The protocol came into force on 1 June 2009.

The Free Movement of Persons Agreement and its additional protocol lift restrictions on EU citizens wishing to live or work in Switzerland. The same rules apply to citizens of EFTA states. The citizens of the founding EU states, including Cyprus and Malta (EU-17), and the citizens of EFTA states have enjoyed free movement rights for several years already. The citizens of the EU-8 state were granted the same unrestricted free movement rights on 1 May 2011. The citizens of Bulgaria and Romania will remain subject to restrictions till 31 May 2016 at the latest.

Federal Council invokes safeguard clause for EU-171 and EU-82 states

The Federal Council decided to invoke the safeguard clause contained in the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons. After 1 May 2013, the quota for B-permits (5-year residence permits) will be kept in place for nationals of the EU-8 states and as of 1 of June 2013, quotas will be applied to B-permits for workers from EU-17 states as well. Quotas will apply for one year.

Affected by the quotas are persons with an employment contract valid for one or more than one year or indefinitely wishing to take up employment in Switzerland and therefore applying for a type B residence permit for gainfully employed persons. The same applies to the self-employed persons.

FAQ – Frequently asked questions FAQ – Frequently asked questions
Rundschreiben vom 29. April 2013 (EU-8) Rundschreiben vom 29. April 2013 (EU-8) (this document is not available in English)
Rundschreiben vom 22. Mai 2013 (EU-17) Rundschreiben vom 22. Mai 2013 (EU-17) (this document is not available in English)

1) The EU-17 comprises the western and southern European countries Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, Germany, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Sweden, Spain, and the United Kingdom

2) The EU-8 comprises Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia.
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Old 18.11.2013, 16:54
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

Yes, we know.
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Old 18.11.2013, 17:27
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Yes, we know.
Medea Fleecestealer: I don't doubt that you know.
I read your story and you are correct.
Just wanted to write my personal story in simple English.
This is (internet) advice I got in the past;
"Unfortunately our Federal Council has decided to limit the number of EU nationals who can receive work permits - and you cannot simply move here without one." - Clearly not true. I thank this person for their time, but bad advice is bad advice.
Laws change - I suggest to anyone who need immigration information to contact Swiss Embassy in their country or the local authorities in Switzerland.
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Old 18.11.2013, 17:28
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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here miniMia:
Thanks. I was going to post the link but I had to run out. But since it's so easy to find I'm always surprised other can't seem to locate it.

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There is lots of wrong advice out there on the internet.
What is the wrong information? Didn't I just write that above?
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Old 18.11.2013, 17:33
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

miniMia: I wasn't referring to anything you said.
I received wrong information from someone else - then rang the Embassy and got happy answer. Nothing to do with your comments.
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Old 18.11.2013, 17:44
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

what if you are a UK national and want to move to switzerland, without a job and with no money? do you have the right to do this?

what if you have no job but just enough passive income for rent, bills and food?
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Old 18.11.2013, 17:53
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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what if you are a UK national and want to move to switzerland, without a job and with no money? do you have the right to do this?

what if you have no job but just enough passive income for rent, bills and food?
Off course YES.
Same applies if you are Swiss and want to move to any EU-17 Country.
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:00
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Medea Fleecestealer: I don't doubt that you know.
I read your story and you are correct.
Just wanted to write my personal story in simple English.
This is (internet) advice I got in the past;
"Unfortunately our Federal Council has decided to limit the number of EU nationals who can receive work permits - and you cannot simply move here without one." - Clearly not true. I thank this person for their time, but bad advice is bad advice.
Laws change - I suggest to anyone who need immigration information to contact Swiss Embassy in their country or the local authorities in Switzerland.
Quite right Looking for a job in CH. Here's another one that has given incorrect info which mountains was asking about earlier:

Working in Switzerland without permit

I myself, enquiring of BFM re another potential movee here, found what seems like conflicting info on their website in that question 3 says you must have an employment contract while question 6 says EU nationals can come here to seek work. This is the answer I got back:

"We would like to inform you that both answers, No 3 and No 6, are correct. The difference between these answers are the type of permit.

If you arrive in Switzerland with a contract of employment you will receive either a permit L (short term work permit) or a permit B (work contract for one year or more).

If you travel to our country in order to find a job (job seeker), you will receive a permit that only allows you to stay in Switzerland but not to work.

Okay, so what happens in this situation? Someone from Spain comes here as a job seeker,hoping to teach at an international school. The school turns around and says she needs a permit to work before she can be considered. How can she get a permit to work without a job offer and how can she geta job offer without a work permit?

The answer from the school seems to be incorrect. As an EU-citizen you are allowed to stay in Switzerland as a job seeker for three months.

Once a contract of employment has been signed, the employer (or you) submits to the cantonal labor authority the contract and a request for a work permit (B - long term).

We suggest that you send the links to our FAQ's to the mentioned school. If they need any further information, they are welcome to get contact with us directly:

Link:http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...-efta/faq.html

So it's not a complete surprise that some websites don't query the official source (BFM) before they post the info. It's just laziness.

Phil_MCR, yes if you can support yourself financially then you can move here to job hunt. If you have no job and can't support yourself though, then no, the border control won't let you in. I think the Swiss reckon on around CHF100 a day so about CHF3,000 a month minimum and you'd need to provide financial records showing you have the necessary funding to be allowed in.
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:08
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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what if you are a UK national and want to move to switzerland, without a job and with no money? do you have the right to do this?

what if you have no job but just enough passive income for rent, bills and food?
If you are a UK national and want to look for a job you can come for three months without requesting any type of permit. After that you can get a 3 month job seekers permit which can be extended up to a year.

Check on the commune website for what you need to bring to the commune to register as a job seeker.


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Phil_MCR, yes if you can support yourself financially then you can move here to job hunt. If you have no job and can't support yourself though, then no, the border control won't let you in. I think the Swiss reckon on around CHF100 a day so about CHF3,000 a month minimum and you'd need to provide financial records showing you have the necessary funding to be allowed in.
That's all nice in theory. But it's not just true in practice. As an EU citizen you just turn up (except EU2+1). No border control agent will ask you for proof of income and in most cases you won't even meet a border control agent.
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:13
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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If you are a UK national and want to look for a job you can come for three months without requesting any type of permit. After that you can get a 3 month job seekers permit which can be renewed.

Check on the commune website for what you need to bring to the commune to register as a job seeker.




That's all nice in theory. But it's not just true in practice. As an EU citizen you just turn up. No border control agent will ask you for proof of income and in most cases you won't even meet a border control agent.
miniMia: I agree 100% with you. I thank you for confirming my research in the past week.
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:31
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

what if you have no job, no money and have no intention of getting a job? is it ok to come here just to be homeless; or maybe stay with friends?
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:36
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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what if you have no job, no money and have no intention of getting a job? is it ok to come here just to be homeless; or maybe stay with friends?
Not really. You won't have any money, you won't get any from Switzerland so unless your friends are prepared to support you and let you stay with them, forget it.

Is that still the case miniMia, given the quota limits on B permits? I would have thought they'd be doing more checking of EU's with the restriction currently in place.
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:41
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Not really. You won't have any money, you won't get any from Switzerland so unless your friends are prepared to support you and let you stay with them, forget it.

Is that still the case miniMia, given the quota limits on B permits? I would have thought they'd be doing more checking of EU's with the restriction currently in place.
You will also be required to register and pay health insurance from day one...
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Old 18.11.2013, 18:53
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Not really. You won't have any money, you won't get any from Switzerland so unless your friends are prepared to support you and let you stay with them, forget it.

Is that still the case miniMia, given the quota limits on B permits? I would have thought they'd be doing more checking of EU's with the restriction currently in place.
Lets put it this way;
Can the Swiss ban you? = NO (open border, no checks)
In theory, I will say YES to Phil_MCR, yes, you can be in CH with no money or stay with friends (if you are EU-17 citizen).
It is a mirrored EU law. Any EU-17 citizen can live in any EU-17 country.
The fact that the Swiss authorities require some paperwork and British / German / French authorities don't comes down to the "Swiss being more strict"
This is my opinion anyway.
P.S. I keep saying EU-17 as i'm not sure if all new EU members have all rights, etc.
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Old 18.11.2013, 19:05
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Re: Freedom of movement for workers in the European Union and Switzerland

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Lets put it this way;
Can the Swiss ban you? = NO (open border, no checks)
In theory, I will say YES to Phil_MCR, yes, you can be in CH with no money or stay with friends (if you are EU-17 citizen).
It is a mirrored EU law. Any EU-17 citizen can live in any EU-17 country.
The fact that the Swiss authorities require some paperwork and British / German / French authorities don't comes down to the "Swiss being more strict"
This is my opinion anyway.
P.S. I keep saying EU-17 as i'm not sure if all new EU members have all rights, etc.
Well, sort of. EU-8 and EU-2 were/are under quota limits anyway, but otherwise the rights are the same. Now the EU-17 have a quota limit too until next May 31st there's not much difference. Not sure where Croatia stands at present; I think it's still treated as non-EU because the Free Movement Agreement between the EU and Switzerland hasn't been updated to take them into account yet.
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