Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.01.2014, 20:28
Geneva1203's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Geneva1203 has no particular reputation at present
B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Hello,

I am a non-EU citizen, here in Geneva on a B permit since 2012. After serving the company for 16 months, I was made redundant. I have registered for chomage. However, my worry is whether my B permit, which ends by the end of April, could be extended by the Office Cantonal de la Population et des Migrations. Is there anyone who has been in such a situation and got an extension or do you know anyone regarding the same, would be a great help please. Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.01.2014, 23:01
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 5,602
Groaned at 33 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 5,201 Times in 2,492 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

My understanding is that if you are entitled to unemployment insurance, they will renew your permit.

However, the best thing you can do is to start looking for a new job, and get onto the unemployment system as quickly as possible and start jumping through their hoops.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24.01.2014, 11:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vaud
Posts: 506
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 332 Times in 217 Posts
slingb is considered knowledgeableslingb is considered knowledgeableslingb is considered knowledgeable
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

It will be extended until when the unemployment time ends. Then you have to leave. Unless, if in the meanwhile you have found another job, but note that as non-EU the Swiss will need to approve the new job (just as they did for the last one you had).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03.02.2014, 11:58
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 244
Groaned at 64 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 68 Posts
MarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthy
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

I am in the same situation and my B-Permit expires end of March 2014.
I was employed for over 2 years with the last company.
I also registered for Unemployment benefits as from January 2014.

Today I received a letter from the Arbeitslosenkasse asking me
to renew my B-Permit before they will possibly start paying me
unemployment benefits.
They also mention that they hope I am still not unemployed
when my permit expires.

Sounds fishy?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17.03.2014, 18:37
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pfäffikon, SZ
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
7anan has no particular reputation at present
I am in the same position : contract ended end of Feb, permit expired march 6th, rejestererd with RAV in jan and today i receive a letter from Kasse asking me to renew to start paying me.

I have asked for renew in jan and received letter from my canton (Schwyz) that they do not feel like renewing my permit since it is tied to work and currently i am not working. they asked me however some questions ( related to integration, german mastery and goal of staying in Switzerland like immigration type questions) to help them study my case before giving a final decision. So now i feel like my case is in the air and do nt know what to do with the arbeitloskasse?

do i tell them i submitted the renew and still under process? would this make them pay me, or are they going to wait till the decision is taken?

do the authorities prefer that you say you want to stay for ever or only temporary ( couple more yrs, I am already in Switzerland 4 yrs now 2.5 in lausanne and 1.5 in Schwyz) for work?

my real intention in temporary stay for work but do not know for how long, it depends on career opportunities.

would asking RAV to request the renwal help here ? or is it too late now that I submitted the application myself already?

The immigration already knows that I registrerd with RAV in jan but do not know if i was accepted by the arbeitloskasse as i only got their acceptance a week ago after teh immigration have replied to my original request, not sure now being accepted and receivng the insurance would change anything in my case or not, any idea?

any recommendation for a good lawyer who deals with such cases?

thanks for sharing your input

7anan

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.03.2014 at 18:52. Reason: merging and tidying successive posts
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18.03.2014, 10:51
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 929
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 463 Times in 242 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Quote:
View Post
I am in the same position : contract ended end of Feb, permit expired march 6th, rejestererd with RAV in jan and today i receive a letter from Kasse asking me to renew to start paying me.

I have asked for renew in jan and received letter from my canton (Schwyz) that they do not feel like renewing my permit since it is tied to work and currently i am not working. they asked me however some questions ( related to integration, german mastery and goal of staying in Switzerland like immigration type questions) to help them study my case before giving a final decision. So now i feel like my case is in the air and do nt know what to do with the arbeitloskasse?

do i tell them i submitted the renew and still under process? would this make them pay me, or are they going to wait till the decision is taken?

do the authorities prefer that you say you want to stay for ever or only temporary ( couple more yrs, I am already in Switzerland 4 yrs now 2.5 in lausanne and 1.5 in Schwyz) for work?

my real intention in temporary stay for work but do not know for how long, it depends on career opportunities.

would asking RAV to request the renwal help here ? or is it too late now that I submitted the application myself already?

The immigration already knows that I registrerd with RAV in jan but do not know if i was accepted by the arbeitloskasse as i only got their acceptance a week ago after teh immigration have replied to my original request, not sure now being accepted and receivng the insurance would change anything in my case or not, any idea?

any recommendation for a good lawyer who deals with such cases?

thanks for sharing your input

7anan
When did you receive the letter from the canton, and when is the deadline of your response? Your previous permit was expired from 6 March, and now it seems quite late.

And also, you should read carefully the letter. Read the title, it can be one of the two cases.

1. They need more information from you before they make the decision.

2. They have a pre-decision that is not to renew your permit, but they want to listen to your personal argument before the final decision is made. (This letter will be sent as a registered mail which requires your signature)

In either case, you have 30 days to reply. The second case is worse than the first, which means that unless you have a very, very strong valid reason to stay in Switzerland, they won't change the pre-decision.

I think in the response (of course it should be written in German) you should mention several points:
1. Your intention of staying in Switzerland. Your personal interests in staying in this country. It is not necessarily to specify clearly that you want to stay here "forever" or not. Put more emphasis on the importance of your stay with regard to your career development, etc...
2. Your integration level (e.g. language skills)
3. Your effort of job hunting recently, and why you think your job hunt will be promising.
4. Your current financial situation (preferably with some proof from the bank, etc) to show that you can support yourself.
5. Your personal link to Switzerland, if any (e.g. person important to you).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02.04.2014, 15:36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pfäffikon, SZ
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
7anan has no particular reputation at present
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Thank you happyrobbie for your reply.


Indeed the letter is registered and decision seems pre-taken and wanted me to give my reasons of why I want to stay.


for unpadate, i saw more than one lawyer, non is sure of the response, but also gave more of positive accpetance if i carefuly answer the questions to show my interst in staying. but ofcourse the prime factor would be to have a job.


I am not sure how to view this, but i guess i am preparing me for either case. at least mentally.


So I postponed the reply for a month hoping i can get something meanwhile. I am trying hard and hoping for positive outcome.


I wanted to ask something concerning one of the lawyers i had as i find what he did is not usual/ normal please help me to clear the situation.


when i went for consultancy for this letter, this lawyer told me i will pay per hour ( 370CHF). so the consultancy took around 45 min. and ofcourse he recommended i hire a lawyer ( him ofcourse) to help me answer to increase the chances. so I started asking him questions about his experience with such cases, why i should hire him how would this help my case and what is his approach etc.
this took around another 25 min.
when i was done, he told me that he will charge the full hour. I was not happy for this and replied, the consultancy did nt last 1 hr and i would only pay for the time he used to consult my case, not to discuss his experience etc. he then said , he will not talk more about this and will send me an invoice that if i do not pay will go for collection etc. and asked me to leave.


i receive two days ago a registered mail with his invoice, puting the time as 1h15min for the meeting and charging the full hour rate 370CHF, he also added a 10CHF fee he paid to get my home address which i find strange. and wanted me to pay in 10 days or will go for collection agency.( costing 300CHF extra)


two parts questions:
1- regarding the consultancy time fees:
a-is this normal, he charge full hour even if it took less , and the 15 min makes a difference in the price almost 100chf?
-can i write back stating my disagreement on the time for consultancy and hence charged fees?
b- would my disagreement letter extend the pament time of 10 days to start after adjusment or reaching an agreement rather than the day or invoice receipt, or not?
if not shall I then pay him to avoid the collection fee, and then dispute the amount? would i then have any chance?


2- regarding the extra cost to get my address:
a- i am obliged to pay it ?
he had my email and tel no. He also took down some info from the letter sent by the canton , which he stated in his invoice, hence he also had my adress noted ( i assume) and if not he could of easily asked me for it before leaving since he knew he will send me the invoice, or could of asked me afterwards via email or tel. he had no reson to resort to the gemeinde to find out my address. now he did i see that he should absorb the cost not me, am i right here?
b- also would not the fact that he used registered mail 8 the other lawyer sent me regular mail and asked me for my address before leaving ) and did not ask me directly for my address implies a no trust and breach of confidence and negligence on his part? I know presuming distrust is not allowed by law and seen negatively. this point also justifies my argument for not being responsible for the fees to get my address.




sorry if it is long but wanted to make sure the situation is clear,


Any one who can help clarify the invoice issue would be great.


Thanks in advance
7anan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02.04.2014, 15:48
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 7,310
Groaned at 210 Times in 168 Posts
Thanked 12,969 Times in 5,329 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

I can't address all your other questions, but on the issue of your lawyer's invoice, I suggest you pay it in full. It will cost you way more to fight it and really, you are arguing over a couple of hundred francs, that's all.

Maybe later, when you've got things sorted out and you have fewer things to worry about, you can go back and challenge him, and ask for a refund of some of the fees. That way, he can't threaten you with the Betriebungsamt. I successfully challenged a lawyer's invoice a good year after paying it and received a refund of almost all of it -- different circumstances, though.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 02.04.2014, 17:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 929
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 463 Times in 242 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Yes, I agree with 22 yards. Pay the invoice in time. You have other things far more important to worry now. If he really starts a Betriebungsamt (poursuite) against you then your permit decision is over immediately.

The first thing you should know is that usually the lawyers charge on every minute that he works on your case, including consultant time, communicating over phones, email, also time spent in studying the laws and past cases if your case is complex... So I would say that it is normal he charges the extra 25 minutes.

But what is not normal about the lawyer is that he sent you the bill in registered mail and just after the first appointment, and you have to pay it in 10 days. This is very, very abnormal. Usually for small individual cases (like yours) a lawyer will send you the bill when the case is closed, or at least only at some milestones (not after every appointment). Also, standard bills are due for 30 days not 10 days. I have a feeling that he is just scared that you will have to leave the country soon so he just wants you to pay asap, and he does not care if you return to him (probably he does not want to see you again).

Last edited by happyrobbie; 02.04.2014 at 17:54.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank happyrobbie for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 03.04.2014, 03:49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 256
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 138 Times in 86 Posts
international has earned the respect of manyinternational has earned the respect of manyinternational has earned the respect of many
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Sending a bill by registered mail is unusual after a first meeting - but as you already openly disputed the bill at the meeting (as far as I understood) he was just covering his bases.

It is up to the service provider how long they would like to ask you to pay, they can ask for advance payment, 5 days, 20 days, legally speaking there is nothing to stop a service provider from giving a shorter time frame to pay than thirty days. And it is not all that unusual either. Independent service providers for example translators etc. often ask for a base fee in advance and as the relationship progresses that can change over time.

Here is some simplified information in German: http://www.conviva-plus.ch/index.php?page=227

I can not be a judge of the lawyers behavior as I was not present, but in legal it is standard to bill time spent with a client during a meeting, also smalltalk etc. because this is time that has been spent and can be billed. Doctors do the same by the way, it goes into the consulting time, as do many other service providers.

Explaining procedural issues of how he can help you for your case is by the way a consult in itself, as it takes knowledge of legal procedure to be able to explain to a client how a procedure may come to pass etc.

That having been said, there are of course more or less reasonable/friendly/polite service providers in every field. I am sorry to hear that the experience was an unpleasant one for you.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03.04.2014, 10:16
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 244
Groaned at 64 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 68 Posts
MarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthy
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

My B permit was renewed.

I requested a letter from Arbeidslosenkasse stating the benefits due to me and
the time period involved.
I submitted this and the RAV registration papers together with the permit renewal form.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03.04.2014, 11:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sion/VS, Fribourg/FR, Bern/BE
Posts: 929
Groaned at 20 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 463 Times in 242 Posts
happyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputationhappyrobbie has an excellent reputation
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Quote:
View Post
My B permit was renewed.

I requested a letter from Arbeidslosenkasse stating the benefits due to me and
the time period involved.
I submitted this and the RAV registration papers together with the permit renewal form.
Thanks for the update. This is useful information, as there seems to be some uncertainty of non-EU B permit renewing in the case of unemployment.

May I ask how long is the time period of unemployment benefit given by Arbeidslosenkasse, and your new permit covers entirely this period?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03.04.2014, 19:21
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 244
Groaned at 64 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 68 Posts
MarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthy
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the update. This is useful information, as there seems to be some uncertainty of non-EU B permit renewing in the case of unemployment.

May I ask how long is the time period of unemployment benefit given by Arbeidslosenkasse, and your new permit covers entirely this period?
The time period of unemployment benefit given by Arbeidslosenkasse was
2 years and it more than covers the permit renewal period.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04.04.2014, 01:00
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pfäffikon, SZ
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
7anan has no particular reputation at present
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Thank you all for your input. I guess then i shall pay the invoice then dispute it later.


This is good news Mark about the renewal for your B permit. So i guess there is some hope for mine to be renwed even without a job contract. As I too have two yrs coverage from the arbeitloskasse which should cover the 1yr usual renwal period.


one quesition mark, were you receiving the unemployment payment while getting your permit renwed? or did the kasse wait till you had it renwed to start paying you?


thanks again and will post again when there is update for my case.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22.01.2015, 23:05
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 244
Groaned at 64 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 121 Times in 68 Posts
MarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthyMarkH is considered unworthy
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

http://blog.kpmg.ch/swiss-immigration-outlook-2015/

Looks like it will become more difficult generally dealing with immigration in 2015.
Including permit extensions.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MarkH for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 25.05.2015, 22:24
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mray has no particular reputation at present
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Dear 7anan, did you get the extension?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20.01.2016, 02:20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pfäffikon, SZ
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
7anan has no particular reputation at present
hi all


appologies for not updating my status earlier.


I did get my permit extended twice to cover for the duration of my RAV . and in both occasions i have been asked several questions on my job hunting activities and why i wanted to extend my permit etc.


I beleive as long as you show real efforts and reasoning of why you want to stay and think you will eventually find a job then it will be considered positive and the permit gets renewed.

another update FU


I just wanted to add there are two points that I beleive also helps in making your file more positive or at least in my case:
- having worked in switzerland for many years, i did work for 4 yrs before going into unemployment
- not having history of social aid assistance and showing that you will not likely resort to it as I only got a 1.5 yr prolongation and not 2 yrs (which my gemeinde staff remarked as not common to have less than a year renewal), as i beleive thier concern is that if you will stay you will have enough income and will not resort to social aid


luckily i did find a job finally at the end and got my permit renwed accordingly for the 3rd time for a full yr as usual.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.08.2016 at 22:20. Reason: merging consecutive replies
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 24.01.2016, 17:06
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fer_n_tati has no particular reputation at present
Re: B Permit extension for non-EU citizen

Your profile states you are canadian. Was there any mention in your process that your extension was tied to specific US/Canada rules?
Thanks,
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chomage, extension, non eu b permit




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EU citizen with L permit engaged to a Non-EU citizen coolgyal Permits/visas/government 3 05.08.2013 22:29
Two steps for non-EU L-permit extension? proudnoldo Permits/visas/government 5 07.07.2012 00:51
Permit for Non EU husband of EU citizen lucern_bound Permits/visas/government 7 23.11.2011 23:35
Non EU-citizen, wife of EU-citizen did not get same permit as husband!!! Marion Permits/visas/government 6 03.05.2007 10:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0