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Old 03.02.2014, 09:16
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No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Hello,

Just wondering if anyone else faced my situation. (Note: while asking here I contacted a court in the UK for further info).

I divorced many years ago and now for about 3-4 years ago my daughter, with the mother agreement, lives with me. Then moved to Switzerland, again all agreed, got the mother's consent letter for the daughter to live here.

Well, the Swiss immigration looked at the divorce papers and on it it says my daughter was living with the mother at time of divorce. They said they cannot give a permit to her at the moment... Since we always agreed on kids residence questions, their is indeed no residence order in force.

Is there something specific you are aware of I should do ? Indeed solicitors can help, but they are not free . And if it is just to point me to a form to fill in, rather ask the community and anyone who went through this

Thanks for any advice,

pit
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Old 05.02.2014, 09:48
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Did you show them the consent letter?
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Old 05.02.2014, 10:54
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

I had no official residence (UK divorce) and just had a letter of consent that stated that we agreed that my daughter would live with me. Someone translated it into German and sent the translation and original to the permit people and it was no issue.
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Old 05.02.2014, 11:31
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Well, it sounds as if you'd need to check with a Swiss lawyer, but you might need to go back to the UK court and get some kind of official document which says she's living with you now. That would be my guess, but a Swiss lawyer is the only one who'll know for sure.
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Old 07.02.2014, 10:55
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Thank you for the replies.

I am still waiting for the UK court answer.

In the meantime I sent some more documents, such as UK Child Tax Credits since couple of last years, child benefits, also giving again the mother Consent letter.

... the Immigration officer rejected them all.

I even provided the courts certificate saying they will not decide or enforce anything for the kids (since with the mother we have always been in an agreement concerning children residence questions). Also rejected..

Seems like the mother authorisation does not matter. The officer wants to see written clearly, by nobody else than a court, that I have custody (interestingly "custody", in my understanding, does not exists in the UK family legislation on children arrangements, they call it "residence"). I hope it won't become the next issue if I ever get a document proving it.

pit
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Old 07.02.2014, 12:00
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

I went through all this some years ago in Bern.

You don't make it clear where you divorced and under which law.

You need to apply to the Vormundschaftsbehörden (where you were living when divorced) or are living now, for the Sorgerecht.

I think a quick call to these people will tell you where to go, & what to do http://www.scheidungskonvention.ch/

Kontakt Telefonisch erreichen Sie uns unter folgenden Nummern:
Basel und Baselland : 061 270 83 33
Übrige Kantone : 0800 00 44 00

divortis GmbH
Zentrum für Scheidungsberatung
Aeschenvorstadt 67
4010 Basel
info@scheidungskonvention.ch


Note: this has nothing to do with payments to the mother: it is about who is legally responsible for the child.
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Old 07.02.2014, 18:17
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Quote:
Sbrinz:
You don't make it clear where you divorced and under which law.

I divorced in the UK

I will try to call the number you provide with

Thx
pit
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Old 06.05.2014, 09:33
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Note: I divorced in the UK and all documentation in from the court there.

A solicitor in the UK told me the only document I can apply for is a residence order. So I applied.

After a slow correspondance withthe court in the UK where I divorced, I eventually received a letter telling me that since my daughter lives with me in Switzerland, it is out of the court juridiction and it says to seek a court where I live (Basel).

I am contacting a solicitor here to see what I can do.

At this rythm I will deal with a little girl kicked out of the country, and is what stresses me a bit. She is integrating the country, learn the language, likely sacrifice a school year to better succeed, and one morning I will be forced to get her back to the UK... where she does not want to go.

I hope it does not happen

pit
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Old 08.12.2014, 11:45
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Hello,

If it can help anyone a day in the same position as me in Basel. Please let me share with you how after more than a year of jumping between administrations I resolved my issue.

What was the issue in a nutshell: Let say my divorce a long time ago has been pretty peaceful in the UK and thus not really any paperwork or decisions is taken by courts in regards of kids. If parents agree and plan looks reasonable, the judge do not get involved with arrangements.

So, when I moved to Switzerland, I entered a difficult situation to prove the migration office I have got custody for my child. And one of the difficult part is because there is not even a legal definition for custody in the UK.

Long short story to resolve the issue:
After a half-million letters here and there, I was introduced to the GGG-Basel.

1. They called the migration office (they know them and know who to contact there, seems it has its importance)
2. We all agreed together, in writing, that if I get a confirmation from a UK Solicitor, through a stamped letter, that I had in the UK the equivalent of a custody in Switzerland...
3... my daughter will get her B permit

And that's it. In 2-3 weeks problem gone. So my message, talk to GGG Basel for such situation !

pit
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Old 17.12.2014, 06:41
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Re: No permit granted yet for daughter... (EU UK)

Quote:
View Post
Hello,

If it can help anyone a day in the same position as me in Basel. Please let me share with you how after more than a year of jumping between administrations I resolved my issue.

What was the issue in a nutshell: Let say my divorce a long time ago has been pretty peaceful in the UK and thus not really any paperwork or decisions is taken by courts in regards of kids. If parents agree and plan looks reasonable, the judge do not get involved with arrangements.

So, when I moved to Switzerland, I entered a difficult situation to prove the migration office I have got custody for my child. And one of the difficult part is because there is not even a legal definition for custody in the UK.

In the USA (where every state has its own practice and only some states' divorce decrees are unconditionally honoured in the UK for remarriage eligibility -- don't know why, but my clients' NY divorce was OK; some others aren't), it's fairly easy to get a decree amended as to custody of children. Some local judges will sign anything you put before them. (Well, my Belgian law professor told me that's not unknown in Belgium too.)

Long short story to resolve the issue:
After a half-million letters here and there, I was introduced to the GGG-Basel.

1. They called the migration office (they know them and know who to contact there, seems it has its importance)
2. We all agreed together, in writing, that if I get a confirmation from a UK Solicitor, through a stamped letter, that I had in the UK the equivalent of a custody in Switzerland...
3... my daughter will get her B permit

And that's it. In 2-3 weeks problem gone. So my message, talk to GGG Basel for such situation !

pit
Thank you for submitting that.

Similar anomalies are common in cross-border moves, and they are often resolved pragmatically as in your case where the UK simply doesn't issue a document expected in a civil law country.

Here there is the added fact of the child's "habitual residence" rights under The Hague child abduction convention (last 6 months with other parent's consent).

A couple of other comparable documentation cases: for marriage a U.K. Register Office will issue a "banns" letter of eligibility to marry. But as this doesn't exist in the USA American fiancés can use an informal Embassy certification of a self-declaration.

Casual boating licenses don't exist in the UK. My friends take a lesson on the Thames and carry a letter certifying they've been "taught" to sail.
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