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Old 25.02.2014, 10:18
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SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

Hi all,
Would you know, by any chance the difference between 'Selbstständigerwerbende' and 'Freelance' when registering with the SVA??
Thanks a lot!
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Old 25.02.2014, 10:21
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Re: SVA: Selbständig oder Freelance ??

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Hi all,
Would you know, by any chance the difference between 'Selbstständigerwerbende' and 'Freelance' when registering with the SVA??
Thanks a lot!
In CH freelance is an employee who works for several companies, possibly as little 1 day a year. So not self employed at all.
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Old 10.11.2015, 15:16
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Re: SVA: Selbständig oder Freelance ??

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In CH freelance is an employee who works for several companies, possibly as little 1 day a year. So not self employed at all.
Do they have to be companies, or can you freelance for individuals? I'm trying to understand what I have to do to work here freelance and the more I read on this site, the less understanding I have.
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Old 10.11.2015, 16:44
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

Freelancers are considered by the AHV to be employees, while self-employed must file and pay their own AHV. The following might help to more fully understand the difference:

Self-employment
In 2010, in Switzerland 569'000 persons self-employed, representing about 13% of the workforce. However, the delineation if anyone is rightfully seen as a self-employed entrepreneur or as an employee is not always easy. For the tax law or the AHV this distinction is central - so are the competent authorities, ie, the tax authorities and the AHV compensation funds that decide who is considered self-employed and who does not. Demarcation criterion is the dependence and subordination to the client. For example, for the AHV only a "genuine self-employed", who should bear its own economic risk, ie who makes major investments, must bear financial costs and losses itself or is not bound by instructions from third parties.

In case of doubt, the authorities go out usually by professional dependence. An example of this are freelancers, which often just a few or even only have a single authority and hardly have to do business investment (eg no own premises for their activities need). For clients, this means that they must settle the AHV amounts for those freelancers because they are classified as employees.

For
tax purposes, it is important what form of independence or which legal form has been chosen. A distinction is whether someone with no company is self-employed (self-employed / freelancers), or with companies or as unincorporated companies (sole proprietorship / Sole proprietorship / sole trader, simple partnership, general partnership or limited partnership).

https://translate.google.de/translat...eit&edit-text=
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Old 10.11.2015, 20:24
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

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Freelancers are considered by the AHV to be employees, while self-employed must file and pay their own AHV. The following might help to more fully understand the difference:

Self-employment
In 2010, in Switzerland 569'000 persons self-employed, representing about 13% of the workforce. However, the delineation if anyone is rightfully seen as a self-employed entrepreneur or as an employee is not always easy. For the tax law or the AHV this distinction is central - so are the competent authorities, ie, the tax authorities and the AHV compensation funds that decide who is considered self-employed and who does not. Demarcation criterion is the dependence and subordination to the client. For example, for the AHV only a "genuine self-employed", who should bear its own economic risk, ie who makes major investments, must bear financial costs and losses itself or is not bound by instructions from third parties.

In case of doubt, the authorities go out usually by professional dependence. An example of this are freelancers, which often just a few or even only have a single authority and hardly have to do business investment (eg no own premises for their activities need). For clients, this means that they must settle the AHV amounts for those freelancers because they are classified as employees.

For
tax purposes, it is important what form of independence or which legal form has been chosen. A distinction is whether someone with no company is self-employed (self-employed / freelancers), or with companies or as unincorporated companies (sole proprietorship / Sole proprietorship / sole trader, simple partnership, general partnership or limited partnership).

https://translate.google.de/translat...eit&edit-text=
Gosh there's a lot there! Taking it a bit at a time, I'd understood that one applied in some way for a permit to be a freelancer and that you needed several clients, presumably so that you didn't fit the profile of an employee for whom the employer is not taking responsibility.

But you are suggesting that if, say, I had 10 clients, they would all be my employers with the responsibilities for them that this would entail.

And I observe that one of the clients I have is a writer with a ms. I'm helping to prepare for publication. It is so that she has to have a formal employer/employee relationship with me? A bit tough on both of us if that's so!
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Old 11.11.2015, 00:10
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

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Gosh there's a lot there! Taking it a bit at a time, I'd understood that one applied in some way for a permit to be a freelancer and that you needed several clients, presumably so that you didn't fit the profile of an employee for whom the employer is not taking responsibility.

But you are suggesting that if, say, I had 10 clients, they would all be my employers with the responsibilities for them that this would entail.

And I observe that one of the clients I have is a writer with a ms. I'm helping to prepare for publication. It is so that she has to have a formal employer/employee relationship with me? A bit tough on both of us if that's so!
The term freelance (freiberuflich) may be used more broadly in English than here.

Example of self-employed:
A plumber. Customers call him and he takes his toolbox to a residence or business and fixes the plumbing. An hour later he is at another residence doing the same. Sometimes the phone doesn't ring and he sits in his shop or at home. This plumber works at his own risk and reward and would be considered self-employed by the AHV.

Example of free-lance:
Also a plumber but this plumber works on projects for various plumbing companies, which are organized by them (and not him).
This plumber might be considered free-lance since he floats around working for various employers. He does not bear the risk for a project and would be classified by the AHV as an employee.

This Swiss government web page might also assist you (translated):

https://translate.google.de/translat...Dde&edit-text=
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Old 11.11.2015, 01:07
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

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Gosh there's a lot there! Taking it a bit at a time, I'd understood that one applied in some way for a permit to be a freelancer and that you needed several clients, presumably so that you didn't fit the profile of an employee for whom the employer is not taking responsibility.

But you are suggesting that if, say, I had 10 clients, they would all be my employers with the responsibilities for them that this would entail.

And I observe that one of the clients I have is a writer with a ms. I'm helping to prepare for publication. It is so that she has to have a formal employer/employee relationship with me? A bit tough on both of us if that's so!
I regularly had about 10 employers per year, I was an employee even if only for 1 day.
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Old 11.11.2015, 22:36
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

It's actually not really difficult to get recognized as self-employed if you ae looking to do that. You need roughly 3 customers and intention to see it through (capital invested, website, maybe a rental contract for office space, Business cards, etc.).

It can only become an issue if after a couple of years you still only have a few customers and one is contributing a disproportionate amount to your annual turnover.
Though the risk is really not on the side of the freelancer but on the side of the employer. He is the one that may have to pay AHV on top of the salary.

If you are employing a freelancer request his proof of self-employment from the AHV.
If you are looking to start a company, I would gladly help you get started the best way for your individual situation. There are more options than just self-employment in the sense of the AHV and tax authorities.

Last edited by mirfield; 12.11.2015 at 12:48. Reason: Advertising element removed. Please post in Commercial Marketplace once eligible.
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Old 13.11.2015, 09:53
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

I'm curious how the Swiss distinction between self employment and freelance employee will play out in the 'sharing economy', as this seems to be a growing trend in employment structure.

For instance, is an Uber driver in Switzerland self employed, or a freelance employee?

By their own choice few of the young people I know, those who graduated in the last few years, are in traditional full time employment with one company. Rather they prefer the freedom of taking work here and there while remaining independent. I see this across many industries, and not just in the US and UK, I am starting to see the same mindset among the children of my friends here in Switzerland. Many of this generation seem to reject traditional employment.

(Of course they may change their minds as they grow up, start families, take on mortgages...)

Anyway, just curious as to Swiss employment law and the so-called 'sharing economy'.
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Old 13.11.2015, 10:15
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

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I'm curious how the Swiss distinction between self employment and freelance employee will play out in the 'sharing economy', as this seems to be a growing trend in employment structure.

For instance, is an Uber driver in Switzerland self employed, or a freelance employee?

By their own choice few of the young people I know, those who graduated in the last few years, are in traditional full time employment with one company. Rather they prefer the freedom of taking work here and there while remaining independent. I see this across many industries, and not just in the US and UK, I am starting to see the same mindset among the children of my friends here in Switzerland. Many of this generation seem to reject traditional employment.

(Of course they may change their minds as they grow up, start families, take on mortgages...)

Anyway, just curious as to Swiss employment law and the so-called 'sharing economy'.
An Uber driver will have his own car & insurance for 'taxi' use so fairly clearly taking a risk & self employed. The amount he gets paid depends on what he does & only when he wants to.

Going to work in someones office, for specified hours for the same rate per day, day after day for a fixed contract is just employment.
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Old 01.12.2015, 22:21
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

Hi
A very basic question for the experts Need to register as a freelance for a pretty simply 3 months project (with a company in Spain). CAn anyone help me with the steps i need to take? I have a permit C here
Thanks
Mariana
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Old 20.01.2016, 16:21
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Re: SVA: Selbständig [self-employed] or Freelance ??

Hello,

I also have a question to do with freelancing or being self-employed.

I am currently working one day a week for a small company, and looking for a full-time job at the same time. If/when I get a 100% job, I would like to continue working for the company I'm at now (about 6 t0 8 hours per week) on top of that - but then I will likely be working over the 45 hours per week limit.

Is it possible to "freelance" with my current company, on my own time, while simultaneously working as a full-time employee for the new company? Or do you have to be registered as one or the other?

Alternatively, does anyone know which government body I can go to, to ask questions about the legalities around freelance/self-employed workers?

Thanks in advance!
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