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-   -   Renewal of permit denied - what now? (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/212734-renewal-permit-denied-what-now.html)

porsch1909 07.07.2014 17:00

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 2193294)
You write that you already stated "on her visa renewal form" that you will get married next year and that February 2014 her visa expired. I never heard that a British citizen needs a visa for Switzerland?

It's obviously just a translation issue. The OP has already said he's Swiss and thus not a native English speaker and we all know he means permit so why press on the issue?

Guest 07.07.2014 17:10

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frankieboy (Post 2193254)
Obviously she does generate an income but she was offered Prämienverbilligung [premium reduction] so she took it

Which is why she has been refused a permit...

If you are from the EU you can get a permit and stay here as long as you can support yourself, or have someone supporting you...

Apparently she can't support herself, otherwise she wouldn't have needed Prämienverbilligung.

She can visit 90 days in any 180 without a permit.

You can apply again for another permit...

Or maybe the appeal will be successful.

Maybe she just visits until you get married?

gurahamu89 07.07.2014 17:10

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Just a quick note, as an expat, you will no doubt be expected to be able to support yourself fully. As you and your girlfriend are not yet married, you are not legally linked together. If they gave her a permit and then you split up (not saying it will or anything like that - but if you did split), then the government would have a lot of hassle dealing with it - and ergo would no doubt have to support a single woman who is unmarried and not a national of their country.

You see the dilemma here? If your girlfriend has had no reliable job for the last years of her B permit, has taken welfare help, and basically is relying on you when you're not married - there is absolutely no legal stability for them to base the decision on, as there isn't the best history to back up the application.

The best thing she could do if they do withdraw her permit is to go back to her homeland for just 1 month (you go with her and make a holiday of it if possible), then she would be allowed to come back for another three months to find a job or work temp while also looking for permanent. The moment your partner can prove she doesn't need help any longer from anybody (that she can stand on her own two feet), I have no doubt the swiss authorities in Luzern would hand her a new B permit and eventually a C permit.

You could either do the above, or simply just move your marriage forward - when you're married they can't refuse a B permit because of family reconciliation clauses within international laws. It will then become accepted that you should support your wife, and your income will then be counted too.


Whatever happens, I wish you good luck and hope you come out of all this standing!

sinbad 07.07.2014 17:29

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
maybe she is a british muslim/

frankieboy 07.07.2014 17:32

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Thanks for all the advices so far guys.

No, she's not muslim. Her family are english protestant.

Island Monkey 07.07.2014 17:36

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
The best think for her to do is get a job, if that's possible.

Medea Fleecestealer 07.07.2014 17:37

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
I think it's more that she's not been earning enough, although the health issue certainly didn't help. But as a self-employed person she's got to be able to earn enough to live on. If she hasn't been doing that I'm not surprised the permit has been denied.

Another way out of it of course, is for her to find a full time job here, then there would be no problem.

MissCosmopol 07.07.2014 17:44

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Am I the only one appalled at the fact that someone from the immigration authorities have told OP that getting married would be a very "suspicious move" given the "news"?! :mad::confused:What an ass. The relationship described is totally legitimate and the comment as OP recounts it insinuates that the couple are frauds, planning a scam marriage.

Besides that… I'm out of bounds here on the legal aspect of your girlfriends stay here, but I'd probably give up fighting the Swiss system, go to England and have a civil ceremony, come back married and have your "real" wedding as planned in 2015.

I'm EU and this sounds pretty scary to me.

frankieboy 07.07.2014 17:54

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MissCosmopol (Post 2193339)
Am I the only one appalled at the fact that someone from the immigration authorities have told OP that getting married would be a very "suspicious move" given the "news"?! :mad::confused:What an ass. The relationship described is totally legitimate and the comment as OP recounts it insinuates that the couple are frauds, planning a scam marriage.

Besides that… I'm out of bounds here on the legal aspect of your girlfriends stay here, but I'd probably give up fighting the Swiss system, go to England and have a civil ceremony, come back married and have your "real" wedding as planned in 2015.

I'm EU and this sounds pretty scary to me.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

We were also appalled that the immigration would say such a thing. We have made a life together and love each other very much. A wedding has been on the cards now for a long time.

My girlfriend has tried very hard in Switzerland to make her career work, so it's for sure not from a lack of trying. As I said, her line of work is seasonal, sometimes she's earning quite a bit and at other times she isn't.

We are very much considering just going to Gretna Green in Scotland or something and getting married.

Island Monkey 07.07.2014 17:58

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frankieboy (Post 2193349)
We are very much considering just going to Gretna Green in Scotland or something and getting married.

There is a residence requirement to getting married in the UK. Gretna is not as easy as it once was! Easiest is Gibraltar, no residence requirement and hardly any documentation needed! I considered it when the authorities here were making my life difficult! Good luck!

martin959 07.07.2014 18:04

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2193335)
I think it's more that she's not been earning enough, although the health issue certainly didn't help. But as a self-employed person she's got to be able to earn enough to live on. If she hasn't been doing that I'm not surprised the permit has been denied.

Another way out of it of course, is for her to find a full time job here, then there would be no problem.

:P Define, "not enough" :P

Less than 100.000 chf per year? :rolleyes:

Jaceq 07.07.2014 18:10

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Not enough is below EF standard (that is 120k / year) ;)

martin959 07.07.2014 18:16

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaceq (Post 2193361)
Not enough is below EF standard (that is 120k / year) ;)

xD if you cant afford the cheapest Ferrari every year, then you are "poor"


And, "shame on you"... :p

3Wishes 07.07.2014 18:24

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martin959 (Post 2193355)
:P Define, "not enough" :P

Less than 100.000 chf per year? :rolleyes:

I realize with your :P you're trying to be funny, but maybe it's not clear to OP how much his girlfriend needs to earn to get approved and stay.

I don't know the rules for self-employed, but for people wanting to bring others as dependents a figure often seen here on EF is 100 CHF/day. Perhaps the girlfriend's irregular income combined with the insurance help has the authorities concerned.

What I don't get is why they would send her a C-permit application, sit on it for 5 months, ask for all sorts of stuff that EU citizens usually don't need to provide, and then deny the app and threaten to deport. :confused: No wonder OP is upset!

frankieboy 07.07.2014 18:34

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 2193371)

What I don't get is why they would send her a C-permit application, sit on it for 5 months, ask for all sorts of stuff that EU citizens usually don't need to provide, and then deny the app and threaten to deport. :confused: No wonder OP is upset!

Thank you!!!!
I wondered that too! I thought "wow they're considering her for an early c permit" and obviously we had to send in a lot of documentation which we provided on time and yet they're still refusing.

Anyway, the letter is off, also stating that we didn't know she wasn't allowed to take the Prämienverbilligung, although they offered it to her. I feel tricked in a way because why offer something when it turns out against you anyway? Maybe it was a sly way for the authorities to get rid of a "foreign" person and still making us pay for all the documents we had to send in.

Medea Fleecestealer 07.07.2014 18:35

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Presumably because when she applied for the original B permit, none of this had come up. As an EU it's usually automatic to transfer to a C so that's why they sent the form. Then did some checking, asked for documents, did more checking and made their decision based on what they found out.

Seasonal work of any kind isn't likely to earn enough to live here full time I wouldn't think. She needs to look at what else she can do and find full time employment. She can always go back to her previous job after she's married.

frankieboy 07.07.2014 19:01

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
I am just absolutely shocked how they can just take away someone's life like that! It's not like she has committed any crime here...I understand about the Prämienverbilligung but they surely could have told us that it would affect her future permit?

It's not like she was on the RAV or Sozialhilfe...I just don't know what to say, I am speechless...

Samaire13 07.07.2014 19:15

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Sorry, but something's off here. Is there something else to the story? Denying a C permit is one thing - that is sort of understandable and even if it weren't, there's no general entitlement to a C, so it may be denied for a variety of reasons. But withdrawing a B permit, from an EU/EFTA citizen who has sufficient fundings to support herself (even if through you), who lives with a Swiss and has been working here for five years, and then even adding that a "marriage would be suspicious" - that is all more than just a little odd. I highly doubt it's just because of that insurance thing, there must be another reason.

If there's really nothing else that you're just not telling us (or she's not telling you?), then I would recommend to inquire further with the migration office (the federal one) as to why this happened etc.

Island Monkey 07.07.2014 19:16

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frankieboy (Post 2193398)
I am just absolutely shocked how they can just take away someone's life like that! It's not like she has committed any crime here...I understand about the Prämienverbilligung but they surely could have told us that it would affect her future permit?

It's not like she was on the RAV or Sozialhilfe...I just don't know what to say, I am speechless...

Welcome to the Aüslander world ;) "you guys" voted to kick us all out recently :msnmad:

…. I have noticed recently, they are really cracking down on permits, questioning things that were never before questioned!

frankieboy 07.07.2014 19:19

Re: Renewel of permit denied - what now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samaire13 (Post 2193407)
Sorry, but something's off here. Is there something else to the story? Denying a C permit is one thing - that is sort of understandable and even if it weren't, there's no general entitlement to a C, so it may be denied for a variety of reasons. But withdrawing a B permit, from an EU/EFTA citizen who has sufficient fundings to support herself (even if through you), who lives with a Swiss and has been working here for five years, and then even adding that a "marriage would be suspicious" - that is all more than just a little odd.

If there's really nothing else that you're just not telling us (or she's not telling you?), then I would recommend to inquire further with the migration office (the federal one) as to why this happened etc.

I swear there is nothing else. Even in their letter they only relied on the article where it says that you're not allowed to take help from the state and blah blah...which obviously i knew, that's why i never told her to go to the RAV or claim social help...I just didn't know she wasn't allowed to claim Prämienverbilligung...so, I sent the appeal letter to the office today and really hope that they re-consider all this. I'm devastated otherwise.


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