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08.07.2014, 13:54
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Zurich Unterland
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | I know some will think I'm just tauting for business, which I am truly not as this is not my field of expertise at all! BUT there seems to either be: a) more to the story, which I understand can't and shouldn't all be posted online in a public forum or b) an error on behalf of the authorities..
It is my simplistic understanding that the "Krankenkassenprämienverbilligung" (contribution to your mandatory healthcare) is NOT qualified as "Sozialhilfe" or social benefits. Receiving social benefits can affect your permit status but the Swiss Federal Court did rule that the "prämienverbilligung" doesn't apply.. "Ergänzungsleistungen und Krankenkassenprämienverbilligungen fallen ausländerrechtlich nicht unter den Begriff der Sozialhilfe (BGE 135 II 265 E. 3.7)" - Weisung und Erläuterungen zum Ausländerrecht, Bundesamt für Migration. Good luck.. I hope you find a resolution, but it does seem like this may be a case to ask an expert.. | | | | | My German is not *that* good that I`m able to understand *everything* - I take it that what is being discussed here is that little contribution to Krankenkasse payments that the government pays? (About Sfr100 per month) ?
Perhaps my story can shed some light in this dark tunnel the OP is going thru?....... Substitute me(granny) for his young and beautiful girlfriend, and the story boils down to the same thing - maybe?
I live here on a B permit. Originally it was to live with my son and his family to care for their children, for which I received a token salary. We received this form. My son - who studies every last minute script before accepting/declining/signing anything, and has excellent German/Swissgerman (and good enough salary not requiring subsidization) - accepted this contribution (on my behalf).
When I questioned this acceptance - he said it is because I do not earn "enough" according to the Swiss authorities. They offer, we accept.
After 5 years I had to go thru the whole regmarole again with Migrationsampt, and required a statement from Gemeinde that I had never asked for/received any Social Help. The Krankenkasse premium donation was never mentioned. I received my next B permit.
Now I`m married to my Swiss man. I do not work (well I work, but not in the formal sense  I`m a housewife) and husband also receives this "donation" to my Krankenkasse premiums. It most definitely is not classified as any form of social help. It`s a "top up" for those earning below a certain figure, is my understanding of the situation.
Another thing - not everyone at the Migrationsampt are super intelligent.
The last time I was there I seemed to have a Lehrling who needed to phone her boss before answering any of my questions. Perhaps the OP needs to make an appointment with someone in higher authority there to discuss their problem?
Last edited by smoky; 08.07.2014 at 13:55.
Reason: typo
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08.07.2014, 13:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wallis
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | However, as long is the case of the lady is question is still being reviewed, her Aufenthalt is rechtmässig. The OP and she can go ahead and get married. The devil is in the details here though - I have no idea which documents the Zivilstadtamt will need from her and how long it will take to get them. | | | | | She will need;
Passport
Birth cert (less than 6 mths old)
Swiss residence permit
Wohnsitzbestätigung
The last two may be an issue!
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08.07.2014, 14:04
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Zurich
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | She will need;
Passport
Birth cert (less than 6 mths old)
Swiss residence permit
Wohnsitzbestätigung
The last two may be an issue! | | | | | Swiss residence permit - with a bit of luck one can get a letter from the Migrationsamt confirming the residency status (which is positive unless the final decision (on the appeal) is negative)
Wohnsitzbestätigung - don't see why (done online)
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08.07.2014, 14:05
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
Folks, we are throwing around a truck load of German terms in this thread. Would you kindly provide a translation, to help those members that don't speak German? I'm not saying only use English (as the German terms are relevant), but odds are your translations might be more useful than my Google Translate hacks.  Thanks. | The following 3 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post: | | 
08.07.2014, 14:34
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Somewhere in SG
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | My German is not *that* good that I`m able to understand *everything* - I take it that what is being discussed here is that little contribution to Krankenkasse payments that the government pays? (About Sfr100 per month) ?
Perhaps my story can shed some light in this dark tunnel the OP is going thru?....... Substitute me(granny) for his young and beautiful girlfriend, and the story boils down to the same thing - maybe?
I live here on a B permit. Originally it was to live with my son and his family to care for their children, for which I received a token salary. We received this form. My son - who studies every last minute script before accepting/declining/signing anything, and has excellent German/Swissgerman (and good enough salary not requiring subsidization) - accepted this contribution (on my behalf).
When I questioned this acceptance - he said it is because I do not earn "enough" according to the Swiss authorities. They offer, we accept.
After 5 years I had to go thru the whole regmarole again with Migrationsampt, and required a statement from Gemeinde that I had never asked for/received any Social Help. The Krankenkasse premium donation was never mentioned. I received my next B permit.
Now I`m married to my Swiss man. I do not work (well I work, but not in the formal sense I`m a housewife) and husband also receives this "donation" to my Krankenkasse premiums. It most definitely is not classified as any form of social help. It`s a "top up" for those earning below a certain figure, is my understanding of the situation.
Another thing - not everyone at the Migrationsampt are super intelligent.
The last time I was there I seemed to have a Lehrling who needed to phone her boss before answering any of my questions. Perhaps the OP needs to make an appointment with someone in higher authority there to discuss their problem? | | | | |
So are you saying any housewife with no other income can get this payment towards insurance or is it dependent on your husband's income as well? I would think it must be the latter - is your husband retired?
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08.07.2014, 14:41
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | So are you saying any housewife with no other income can get this payment towards insurance or is it dependent on your husband's income as well? I would think it must be the latter. | | | | | It depends on the total family income.
My wife got subsidized healthcare until we got married, about CHF 300/month.
Tom
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08.07.2014, 15:04
| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | So are you saying any housewife with no other income can get this payment towards insurance or is it dependent on your husband's income as well? I would think it must be the latter - is your husband retired? | | | | | Same question. I'm sure this would only apply if you are not a house owner and if your OH has a low income. Otherwise every housewife/husband would be claiming it. When we came here I had 0 income, but was not elegible due to OH's pension (and the fact we are house owners, I expect).
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08.07.2014, 18:34
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
An EU citizen does not need visa permit to stay up to 90 days.
If she is already employed for more than 11 hours a week - what she needs is a work permit. If she has a company, organisation as an employer, they will apply for her work permit. After the referendum things would change but are not applicable yet.
Secondly, if you have a registered wedding, you being a Swiss will automatically entitle her to live here and eventually work.
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08.07.2014, 18:52
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: out n about - it's summer!
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
So what else qualifies as social help for permit renewal?
Subsidised childcare, exemption from fire taxes due to one parent family, RAV payments, (unemployment benefit) IV payments (disability insurance benefit)?
It might be a good idea to nail this one for once and for all ...
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08.07.2014, 19:41
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
I applied for for the Health Insurance subsidy (PhD income supporting a wife and child) but was denied due to still studying. I didn't quite understand the thinking behind it but didn't follow up. Almost glad I didn't now, although Neuchatel doesn't seem to do as many checks when going from a B permit to a C permit as other cantons do.
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08.07.2014, 19:44
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | Subsidised childcare, exemption from fire taxes due to one parent family, RAV payments, (unemployment benefit) IV payments (disability insurance benefit)? | | | | | RAV and IV, certainly not.
What are fire taxes?
Childcare, probably.
Tom
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08.07.2014, 21:28
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Winti
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | RAV and IV, certainly not. 
What are fire taxes? 
Childcare, probably.
Tom | | | | | Damm, I always assumed that subvention for childcare was like the childcare portion of the UK child tax credit. You know, an encouragement to work that balanced out in the end for the tax-man rather than a hand-out. You know, because if you don't have childcare, you can't work.... I assumed (to put in in ComDem speak) it made me a striver not a skiver.
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08.07.2014, 23:32
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Aachen
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
Pheh. What a story. I wish you the best of luck.
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08.07.2014, 23:41
| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | So what else qualifies as social help for permit renewal?
Subsidised childcare, exemption from fire taxes due to one parent family, RAV payments, (unemployment benefit) IV payments (disability insurance benefit)?
It might be a good idea to nail this one for once and for all ... | | | | | Problem is, it might be different for each C/K and even for each area or each Commune/Gemeinde  As said, for instance, here where I live, childcare help is for all, irrespective of income and irrespective as to whether both parents work.
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09.07.2014, 09:44
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Switzerland
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | I'm not sure this is a direct consequence or a coincidence - there's probably always been individual cases where things went differently than they should (or shouldn't) and now they're being blown out of proportion… Officially, there has not been any change yet - after all, they're still discussing how to exactly implement all this...
As of 2011, that has become substantially more difficult… http://origin.swissinfo.ch/eng/forei...marry/31731948 Not sure if this applies to both EU and non-EU citizens, though. | | | | |
Still think this has nothing to do with the recent vote? Strange situation with B Permit Renewal... | 
09.07.2014, 09:56
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: CH
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Yes I do. She's non-EU, that's a different situation and always has been.
Let's agree to disagree. Even if there were individual strange cases specifically with EU citizens, there have always been some of those, but they're just being blown out of proportion now. There are tens of thousands of non-Swiss on various permits in this country, one or two "weird" cases for me are nothing that I would directly and inevitably trace back to that vote and I simply see no pattern here in any way.
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09.07.2014, 11:25
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
Hey guys,
ultimately we want to stay together for life. Our wedding is booked now, it was stressful planning a wedding at such short notice but we seem to be handling it.
Thanks everyone.
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09.07.2014, 11:57
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Zurich Unterland
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | So are you saying any housewife with no other income can get this payment towards insurance or is it dependent on your husband's income as well? I would think it must be the latter - is your husband retired? | | | | | I`m not sure what it depends on, only that it was offered to me.
My son and family with whom I lived were/are house owners.
I asked him last night (bearing in mind this thread) how and why we came by this offer. He said it was after submitting my tax return. It came from the tax office of the Gemeinde.
It came freely in the first few years, and thereafter he had to request it. Depends on the efficiency of the guy in charge, apparently. Efficiency seems to have suffered with new intakes of younger staff - or the new staff are going by the fine print "escape" clauses (?).
Offers of this type of financial assistance is being slowly withdrawn - due to the vast numbers of foreigners swamping the country. Before, it was affordable, now it`s becoming out of control - so we are not expecting this contribution to my krankenkasse to be continued for long.
The financial belts are being tightened, same as in squeezing more housing into smaller land parcels, with shorter boundaries, and more highrises.
I have not been married long enough to find out for sure if husband will receive this or not - got to wait for our next tax return. And find out what level of salary qualifies for it.
(Sorry, I jumped the gun on my previous post stating that O/H receives it! Its not yet a given fact) The general feeling is that it could continue - but has to be asked for - if we in fact do qualify. Salary is not quite up to the EF standard of Sfr120,000
.........................
As to the OP`s problem - it would seem that girlfriend could be a victim of the new financial mind-set. I too could have been deported when my child-care services were no longer required by family here. Lucky for me, I graduated to "wife" status. (Ohne Zwang!  )
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25.09.2014, 11:51
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Luzern
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now?
Hi,
just wanted to let you all know that me and my wife have been married for nearly 2 months now.
Unfortunately, she still hasn't received her new permit, although the marriage was put through the swiss system and I have all the swiss documents about the marriage. I wrote to the Migration twice, including a copy of the marriage certificate...but nothing!
It is very annoying how slow they are to be honest! Anyone else knows what we could do about that? Thanks.
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25.09.2014, 11:56
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wallis
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| | Re: Renewal of permit denied - what now? | Quote: | |  | | | Hi,
just wanted to let you all know that me and my wife have been married for nearly 2 months now.
Unfortunately, she still hasn't received her new permit, although the marriage was put through the swiss system and I have all the swiss documents about the marriage. I wrote to the Migration twice, including a copy of the marriage certificate...but nothing!
It is very annoying how slow they are to be honest! Anyone else knows what we could do about that? Thanks. | | | | | Why have you written to migration?
When I married my Swiss husband, we just took my paper work to our gemeinde (in person) and applied for my permit. I had it in a week.
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