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Old 09.07.2014, 09:28
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Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

Hello everyone. I've been living in Switzerland for almost 5 years (October will be the 5th year). I was married to a Swiss citizen for 4 of these years (we were divorced early this year). I have a job here as an English Montessori teacher at 60%. I live with my boyfriend (an Engineer, Italian citizen with Permit B).

My Permit B is up for renewal in October, I received a letter from immigration saying that I have to write a letter saying why I should stay in Switzerland and why I can't return to the US and then they will decide if they will renew my permit. My lawyer is writing the letter to immigration.

Anyway, my situation is that I'm 6 weeks pregnant with my boyfriend's child. My lawyer isn't convinced that this is enough to keep me here. Also, like mentioned before I have a job here. In my mind, how could anyone tear a family apart?

Has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?
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Old 09.07.2014, 09:39
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

Yes, the quick way would be to marry your boyfriend. But he could also apply for a concubine permit for you. He needs a place big enough for all of you to live (I assume you have that already) and he has to agree to be financially responsible for you for 5 years.

There seems to be a lot of this going on since the recent vote to curb immigration. Here's just the latest thread.

Renewal of permit denied - what now?

Here's Vaud's info on concubinage. I expect the other cantons will have similar rules.

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/
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Old 09.07.2014, 10:58
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

I imagine the reason is your income @ 60% is not sufficient for yourself and your baby to live here, so they want to make sure you can either be on your own here without government help or leave the country.

I think going with a lawyer is not the best thing to do.
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Old 09.07.2014, 11:08
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

Very, very difficult to get a concubine permit for a non-EU.
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Old 09.07.2014, 11:15
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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I imagine the reason is your income @ 60% is not sufficient for yourself and your baby to live here
OP is 6 weeks pregnant… I doubt authorities know about any baby yet…
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Old 09.07.2014, 11:15
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

I'm just confused on why it is even an option to take me and my baby away from the baby's father?

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Old 09.07.2014, 11:30
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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I'm just confused on why it is even an option to take me and my baby away from the baby's father?

Maybe because:

- he is not supporting you and the baby financially in a legal way
- the don't know if the father would like you and the baby to stay here and him to be the one who will insure your stay here doesn't fall back to the government?

I think it's very clear.
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Old 09.07.2014, 11:31
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

Because you're not in an official relationship, i.e. married. If they don't think you can afford to look after yourself and the baby (forget the father in this) then your permit won't be renewed. Harsh, but that's the way it is. Unless by marriage or the concubine application you can get him included in the equation, it's you alone they're interested in.
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Old 09.07.2014, 12:13
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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Hello everyone. I've been living in Switzerland for almost 5 years (October will be the 5th year). I was married to a Swiss citizen for 4 of these years (we were divorced early this year). I have a job here as an English Montessori teacher at 60%. I live with my boyfriend (an Engineer, Italian citizen with Permit B).

My Permit B is up for renewal in October, I received a letter from immigration saying that I have to write a letter saying why I should stay in Switzerland and why I can't return to the US and then they will decide if they will renew my permit. My lawyer is writing the letter to immigration.

Anyway, my situation is that I'm 6 weeks pregnant with my boyfriend's child. My lawyer isn't convinced that this is enough to keep me here. Also, like mentioned before I have a job here. In my mind, how could anyone tear a family apart?

Has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?
Is your job enough to support yourself financially? Do you speak good local language? I mean, if you were married to Swiss citizen for >3 years before the divorce and your integration is successful (both socially and financially) they cannot deny your permit renewal according to the law (140.20 LEtr, art. 50). This right has nothing to do with your current situation with your bf. I think your lawyer already know this.
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Old 09.07.2014, 12:51
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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Maybe because:

- he is not supporting you and the baby financially in a legal way
- the don't know if the father would like you and the baby to stay here and him to be the one who will insure your stay here doesn't fall back to the government?

I think it's very clear.
Clearly if they are living together he is in a way helping to support her as her bills are half of what they would if she lived alone. We don't actually know if working 60% is enough for her to support herself as she didn't say how much she makes.

Most importantly, the father is legally responsible financial for this baby whether he wants to be or not.

Sometimes I think people just want to start off with the most negative possible view they can come up with.
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Old 09.07.2014, 12:57
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

The baby's father and I live together, he is an engineer. He makes enough money to support us finicially even if I didn't work. We have the intention to get married soon. Baby was wanted and planned, he's not going to run off.

My lawyer has included in the letter that my boyfriend and I live together, boyfriend's salary, occupation, etc and that I am pregnant.
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Old 09.07.2014, 12:58
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

And yes, I speak the language (French, I'm in Neuchatel).
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:17
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

I'm not having a negative view, I'm just simply stating the fact that you'll need to prove your financial means and that you have somebody to rely on, so you are not a burden to the government. Living together with somebody doesn't cut it, you'll need to be married or declared that you are together (pay taxes as a couple etc)
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:25
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

Well, I guess it looks like I'm going back to the US to be a single mother.
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:33
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

Not yet. They, I assume, don't know that you're expecting yet. That info may well change things. As miniMia says, the father has a financial responsibilty for the baby so they're going to have to factor that in to their decision.

What custody rights would the bf have here in Switzerland if they're not married? I know divorced couples now share joint custody, but would immigration see a non-married couple as also sharing custody of their child?
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:40
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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Well, I guess it looks like I'm going back to the US to be a single mother.
Bye bye.
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:45
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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Living together with somebody doesn't cut it, you'll need to be married or declared that you are together (pay taxes as a couple etc)
I don't understand why you keep stating that couples can "declare" that they live together and "pay taxes as a couple" without being married when this is not possible. Until you're married you're taxed individually.

Also, "living together with someone" actually does cut it in some circumstances, but I imagine its vastly easier for EU citizens than third country nationals to work things out with a concubinat.

OP, depending on your canton you might be able to arrange for a concubinat until you marry, but the "safe" way would be to "just" marry - it's the only thing that seems to hold universal currency in this country for immigration purposes. From what you describe I don't think you'll have overwhelming trouble staying if you do marry, but no one here can know for sure.

However, what Idefix is describing (besides the above) is generally true, authorities will care first and foremost about assuring that you are not at risk of relying on welfare, and if you're being provided for by others, even partially, they need more than your and his word for it, that is a legally binding contract of responsibilities. Even if you're living together and as such decreasing your individual cost of living, authorities will be interested in knowing exactly how you're getting by on perhaps too meager an income although everything looks "good" on paper (claiming no sozialhilfe, paying bills on time etc), and they need to have legitimate proof that this "system" (your relationship) you're getting by on is reliable beyond words and good intentions, in other words that there is a binding contract of sorts. This is most definitely in their business to know as I'm sure you understand.

Either way, many others are more knowledgeable than I on your situation, but congratulations and good luck, I'm sure everything will work out for your little family!
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:48
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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Most importantly, the father is legally responsible financial for this baby whether he wants to be or not.
Only if they are married, or he declares paternity.

Tom
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:54
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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I'm just confused on why it is even an option to take me and my baby away from the baby's father?

Because you are mixing up topics... it's not about "taking you away" but about the conditions of residency.

Now look the other way around, would it take a baby to automatically allow a foreigner to stay? Then every "foreigners" women should come, make a baby and then are automatically granted to stay in Switzerland...To stay with the "Boyfriend".

Look at it with a more practical approach: your boyfriend also has a permit. Nobody forces you to live here, you can also both come back to the country where you are legally allowed to stay. Problem sorted.

Really? no, because probably you also both want to stay, so in fact that is the topic: you want to stay, despite not having the right to do so.

There's no subjective opinion here, it's a fact. You want to stay you need to match the conditions to be allowed to stay. Trying to get a lawyer to show how unfair, how you should be allowed to stay... will only cost you money and efforts.


And don't feel you're a victim, those conditions are applying to all foreigners. That's how the Swiss have decided. Their terms-
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Old 09.07.2014, 13:58
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Re: Strange situation with B Permit Renewal...

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Only if they are married, or he declares paternity.

Tom
True, especially that the baby won't have any "Swiss nationality" if one of the parents is not Swiss. So for the Swiss, the baby, even born on Swiss ground, kind of does not exists as so, it's just another foreigner.
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