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View Poll Results: Stay or Move -- Any benefit for Naturalisation to stay longer?
Continue living in same Commune in canton GE 15 93.75%
Move to canton VD, if you want 1 6.25%
Don't know/Can't say 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 24.08.2014, 21:02
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Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

Hi, this is our first message on this Forum. Thanks to everyone who has provided so many helpful experiences and advises previously in this Forum which we have learnt a lot already by reading!

We are trying to decide if staying longer in our Commune (in GE canton) will benefit us in any way when we eventually apply for naturalisation in some years.

As background, my wife and I are both non-EU citizens, and both of us (along with our two children) recently acquired our permit C after 10 years of stay in GE (and always in the same Commune). Now that we have our C permits we plan that at some point in the future (after 3 years) we would apply for naturalisation. We are not ready to apply yet due to other reasons.

Our previous B permits (which we had for 10 years) were always tied to canton GE by my employer (which is also based in GE) and this prevented us from moving to canton VD where house rents are lower. Now that we have our C permits we understand we can move and live freely to another canton (e.g. canton VD).

We have a choice now to either -- continue living in our current Commune in GE canton until naturalisation (but keep paying higher rent for residence in GE) Or move to Canton VD (cheaper rent/potentially buy own residence in VD).

We wonder though if continued and longer stay (e.g. 13 years = past 10 + another 3) in our current Commune may have a more favourable bearing on our eventual naturalisation application? Or will this be irrelevant so long we would be staying in any Commune/Canton continuously for the 3 years prior to naturalisation application?

We understand that at least 2-3 years of continuous stay in the same commune and same canton is a requirement for naturalisation application in both cantons GE and VD. Regardless of whether we we move or stay we expect we will fulfil this condition prior to application in 3 years time.

Of course we understand that there will be multiple factors related to social integration, etc. that will affect naturalisation but we are right now trying to having to make a decision on moving or staying which is a essentially a continuity decision.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
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  #2  
Old 24.08.2014, 21:22
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

Put it this way. Your neighbours have known you for 10+ years while any new ones if you move for a much shorter time. Who do you think is going to look more favourably on your application?

However, it seems your information is incorrect. Geneva only requires you to be resident in the canton for a minimum of 2 years, while Vaud requires a minimum of 5 years in the canton and 1 to 5 years in the commune. So if you move to Vaud you'd have to wait another 5 years before you could apply.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...tzfristen.html
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Old 24.08.2014, 21:26
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

given the time it takes for the process, you might want to stay put and at the same time get the application process going already.
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Old 24.08.2014, 21:46
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

For large communes like Lausanne it won't really matter if you know your neighbors or not. For small villages it's possible it will matter.

Last edited by miniMia; 24.08.2014 at 23:42. Reason: updated info per flyboy's post.
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Old 24.08.2014, 22:06
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

3 years residency requirement in canton de Vaud and the communal residency can't be more than that of the canton, maximum 3 years.

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...nce-en-suisse/

http://www.rsv.vd.ch/dire-cocoon/rsv...difiante=false

Article 8 and 10 of the above link.
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Old 24.08.2014, 22:23
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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3 years residency requirement in canton de Vaud and the communal residency can't be more than that of the canton, maximum 3 years.

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...nce-en-suisse/

http://www.rsv.vd.ch/dire-cocoon/rsv...difiante=false

Article 8 and 10 of the above link.
Mm, I find it odd that the Federal website should be so wrong.
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Old 25.08.2014, 23:37
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

Thanks all for your comments. So seems like tenure for qualification of naturalization is similar between cantons GE and VD.

Any reason to believe that naturalization process may be easier eventually in canton GE vs. canton VD (or vice-versa)?

Again, thanks!
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Old 26.08.2014, 00:35
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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Thanks all for your comments. So seems like tenure for qualification of naturalization is similar between cantons GE and VD.

Any reason to believe that naturalization process may be easier eventually in canton GE vs. canton VD (or vice-versa)?

Again, thanks!
Not sure about ease. They are probably the same. But you should look at how long the processing time is in VD vs GE. Rumor has it it's quite long and backed up in GE.
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Old 26.08.2014, 00:41
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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So seems like tenure for qualification of naturalization is similar between cantons GE and VD.


How are they similar? GE requires 2 years residence and VD 5 years residence!
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Old 26.08.2014, 07:44
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

Flyboy suggests above that the residency requirement in canton VD is 3 years. Hence my conclusion that it is similar to the 2 years in canton GE.

Does experience indicate it is in fact 5 not 3 years in canton VD?
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Old 26.08.2014, 12:20
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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Flyboy suggests above that the residency requirement in canton VD is 3 years. Hence my conclusion that it is similar to the 2 years in canton GE.

Does experience indicate it is in fact 5 not 3 years in canton VD?
I would go with the dates on the canton site, not the Federal site. But if you are really worried, give them a call.

Having said that, I voted that you stay where you are since you are already established quite a long time in your current commune.

Plus I don't know why you want to wait 3 years, but I'd also call Geneva and ask how long the naturalization process is taking. It could well be 3 years. So I'd start the process as soon as you can. But that's just my 2 cents.

Good luck whatever you decide.
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Last edited by miniMia; 26.08.2014 at 15:33.
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Old 26.08.2014, 12:43
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

It used to be 5 years in Canton de Vaud before the current cantonal law came into effect in May 2005 which reduced it to 3 years.
And from personal experience, as someone going through the process currently, it's definitely 3 years residency requirement in Vaud. I started the process last July '13 and just waiting on the invitation to the citizenship ceremony now.
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Old 26.08.2014, 14:01
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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Thanks all for your comments. So seems like tenure for qualification of naturalization is similar between cantons GE and VD.

Any reason to believe that naturalization process may be easier eventually in canton GE vs. canton VD (or vice-versa)?

Again, thanks!
Hi,

You ABSOLUTELY want to be well informed before moving cantons!! Swiss naturalization is both Federal and Cantonal - and the time requirement (at least for GE) was that you spend 12 years in the canton where you are applying including at least 2 years in Geneva. Each canton is different but most cantons have some kind of "+ x years in the canton" which can make you have to reset the counters and wait another few years to apply if you move now!

Definitely check on that first. Here's a site where you can enter your canton and see their requirements:
https://www.ch.ch/en/regular-natural...-requirements/

I finished my naturalization process last year. Had lived in Geneva for 12+ years, and am also non EU. Just before I applied, my husband moved to Zurich and I looked into how this would work. Could I apply from there in Geneva? Would I be elegible to apply in Zurich? Turned out I would not only have to wait a few more years to apply in Zurich, and could not apply from Zurich in Geneva, but I would not meet the language requirements at all (I spoke French fluently but not a drop of German). So I decided to stay in Geneva and apply from there. I was told that once the files and papers were submitted and checked and the whole application was in progress, then I could move to another canton. This took about 9-12 months. I went down to talk to them and have them confirm to me that I was allowed to move to Zurich without putting this in any kind of jeapordy and only when they confirmed did I move to Zurich!

I did have to come back to Geneva a few times for the remainder of the process. First time for an interview by their naturalization office. The second time was the "home visit" but I explained that I lived in Zurich now and they were not interested in visiting me here. If it would be the neighboring Canton I'm not sure - they might be willing to come visit you there. This is the normal volunteer committee so I think it would depend on the actual person who is charged with interviewing you. I suggested to my lady that we meet instead in a cafe in my old neighborhood and she was fine with that. And then the third time for the actual swearing in ceremony.

I really looked into this thoroughly and know how important it can be for some! I would advise look at the requirements where you live now vs where you want to move and decide on the best canton for you to apply. I'm sure Vaud is different from Zurich and maybe an extra few years is something you're planning on anyway - who knows, for me that was a no-go. Once you've decided, get in your paperwork and prepare to wait for a long time for the process to complete. It took me 2.5 years start to finish and all of that is time that you can't really control or speed up. But of course you can control getting a beautiful and complete file in to the naturalization office as soon as you meet the criteria. So start up a file and roll up your sleeves for this one!

Good luck!!!

Sara
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Old 26.08.2014, 14:41
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

OP, at the moment you still don't qualify for naturalization: current law requires 12 years residence in CH.

Now, a new federal law was just adopted reducing that to 10 years. When it comes in force, it will be the cantons' turn to transpose it into cantonal law, but I don't know how long that can take.
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Old 26.08.2014, 15:28
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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...Swiss naturalization is both Federal and Cantonal -....
and Communal and the latter is the most important "tier". If no Commune accepts you, then your naturalization will be rejected by the Canton.
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Old 26.08.2014, 16:15
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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and Communal and the latter is the most important "tier". If no Commune accepts you, then your naturalization will be rejected by the Canton.
And communal requirement can be much longer than either federal or canton requirements. Some people on here have stated that various communes in canton Zurich had a residence requirment of 6 years in the commune prior to application, whereas the canton requirement is only 2 years. Personally, I'd stay where you are at least until you've started the ball rolling
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Old 26.08.2014, 17:02
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

OP:

I know both Canton Geneva and Vaud like the palm of my hand and I would suggest you to submit your demand in Geneva.

Please note that rents are not much cheaper in La Côte (in Terre Sainte rents are the same as in Geneva -- if not higher !).

In case you want to move to Canton VD, please submit your demand in Geneva before settling outside Canton GE.

Read Skappler's post: I agree with everything she said.


Advantage of Naturalization in Canton GE:


- Unlike most cantons, there is no general knowledge test in Canton GE (In Vaud you need to pass the Cantonal civics and institution exam. in GE, they expect you to know all these).
- The Process is centralized for the whole canton. No communal interview. The interview is done by the guys at the Service cantonal des naturalisations.
- The authorities in Geneva are known to be the most lenient in CH when it comes to naturalization.

Disadvantage of Naturalization in Canton GE:


- Depending on your income, la taxe de naturalisation might be higher in GE than in VD
- Lengthy naturalization process (*). Mostly because the office is understaffed.

Advantage of Naturalization in Canton VD:

- The naturalization process is usually shorter, depending also in which district you will be living.
- You can keep your Swiss citizenship in case The Republic and Canton of Geneva leaves the Swiss Confederation [rest assured - won't happen anytime soon ]...

Disadvantage of Naturalization in Canton VD:

- Mandatory Cantonal civics and institution exam. They might ask you to name the 7 members of cantonal govt (conseillers d'État vaudois), the 7 members of Federal Council (aka les 7 sages in Romandie), the name of your district's préfet, of your commune's syndic (aka maire in GE/NE...), questsion about Guillaume Tell, généraux Dufour and Guisan, guerre du Sonderbund... They might even ask you how to make Fondue moitié-moitié, la soupe aux pois, papet vaudois... Another typical question is to explain the motto of VD "Liberté et Patrie" seen on their flag...
- 2 x interviews (communal and cantonal)
- The Naturalization commission might not be easy going. Still better than most Swiss-German cantons though.


(*) All in all, it's not easy to estimate the exact length of naturalization process in Geneva. I would say between 1 and 3 years. I personally know two persons who were recently naturalized in Geneva: one Iranian man and one Portuguese man. Both had C permits and have been living in Geneva for more than 12 years. Both are married with children.

The Iranian guy and his family were naturalized after slightly more than 1 year. He was only interviewed by phone (at the end of phone conversation the naturalization officer told him that there is no further interview required). He never had house visit.

The Portuguese family naturalization process took almost 3 years. He and his wife were asked to attend an interview and everything went well, and again no house visit.

Both the Iranian and the Portuguese men had their education in Switzerland: PhD for the former and CFC for the latter. Both are working in Geneva and speak fluent French.

HTH
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Old 26.08.2014, 17:03
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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And communal requirement can be much longer than either federal or canton requirements. Some people on here have stated that various communes in canton Zurich had a residence requirment of 6 years in the commune prior to application, whereas the canton requirement is only 2 years. Personally, I'd stay where you are at least until you've started the ball rolling
Better to check the local law. It can be very different from canton to canton.
For example, in VS, the rule is:
1. You have lived in canton VS for >=5 years totally in your past (not necessarily continuous)
2. In the past three years, you have been living in VS continuously, and in not more than 2 different communes (i.e. you can only move commune once in the past 3 years)
3. Apart from that, communes has no right to establish other requirements.
4. Once your naturalization application gets positive pre-decision from the canton (only application completed and received is not enough), you can move to another canton without the need to restart the whole process.
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Old 26.08.2014, 18:33
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

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OP:

I know both Canton Geneva and Vaud like the palm of my hand and I would suggest you to submit your demand in Geneva.

(snipped)
Excellent post. What about Fribourg? Do you the process there? And do you happen to know if you need both French and German in the bilingual cantons?
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Old 26.08.2014, 18:48
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Re: Naturalisation -- Should we continue staying in Commune/Canton?

As far as I know, and hope, you can use either one for the citizenship, but don't have to have both. I have no plans to get Swiss citizenship, but considering my abyssmal French I wouldn't stand a chance if I had to add German to the mix as well.

Btw, I queried with the FOM the discrepancy and they've just confirmed that their site is wrong - Vaud is 3 years, not 5, and they'll be updating their info.
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