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Old 08.09.2014, 17:57
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Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

Hi all, I have an issue relating to immigration into Switzerland and was wondering if the collective knowledge of the English Forum can help!

I'm English will shortly begin a new job in Geneva, I will live just over the border in France so believe that I will shortly be granted either a B or G permit. Thats the easy bit!

I am engaged to a Chinese woman who I would obviously like to bring with me, will this be possible? I've tried to find info elsewhere but there doesn't seem to be any info relating to a 'mix' of EU and non-EU citizens.

Should it be relevant, my fiancé works for a Chinese import company who will open a branch in Geneva accommodate her. So she will have work but it will very much be on a 'one man band' type basis and there are certainly no plans to employ anyone else for this office.

I apologise if there is another thread covering the issues raised here but I'm really stumped and getting stressed out by it all!!
Thanks for your help in advance!!
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  #2  
Old 08.09.2014, 18:57
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

Not sure how this would work for non-EU. I guess she will need permission from France to reside there. Might be easier to get married before you move.

You will get a G permit.
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Old 08.09.2014, 19:21
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

You'll get a G permit if you continue to reside in France so I guess their immigration laws will be the ones that apply for your fiance.

However, I wouldn't count on her company just opening up an office for her. Under Swiss rules, said company would have to prove they can't find a Swiss, EU national or someone else already living here who could do the job they want her to do.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...zulassung.html

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...ensablauf.html

And that is for people who are going to reside in Switzerland. I'm not sure what they'd have to do for someone who would be living outside its borders.

The best thing would be for her company to contact the immigration office and employment office for Geneva and see what they advise.

Office cantonal de la population et des migrations (OCPM)
Service Étrangers et Confédérés
Rte de Chancy 88
1213 Onex
tél. : 022 546 48 88

Office cantonal de l’inspection et des relations du travail
Service de la main-d’œuvre étrangère
5, rue David-Dufour
Case postale 64
1211 Genève 8
tél. : 022 388 74 00
fax : 022 388 74 11
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  #4  
Old 09.09.2014, 11:13
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

You will definitely not get a B permit, but a G. A B is a residence/work permit for Switzerland. You won't reside in Switzerland, hence you get a G permit for border-commuters, only for work purposes, but will not be allowed to reside in Switzerland.

It is up to France to decide whether your non-EU gf can reside there.

She will not get a G permit to work in Switzerland. For non-EU border-commuters, a Switzerland-based company would have to go through the same process as for any non-EU citizen, i.e. need to prove that your gf is a specialist in a certain field and that there are no Swiss/EU/EFTA candidates for the specific job she's being considered for. This is not the case for about 95% of all jobs. And even if the company did prove all that, in the case of a border-commuter, an additional criterion is that he/she needs to have lived in the French border zone (! not just France, but the border zone) for an extended period of time (at least half a year, afaik, might be more). Clearly, this is not the case. Best bet is to look for a job in France, provided of course she will even get the respective permit - I have no idea about immigration laws in France.

If you both want to work, the easiest option is to get married and move to Switzerland.
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Old 09.09.2014, 11:27
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

Even if you do get married, the fact that you live in France will not give her the right to work in Switzerland.

Neither can her company just open an office in Geneva for her to work in. They could probably open it in France, again assuming you were married (or PAC'd), then she could work in the office in France.

The situation is much more complicated that you seem to understand.

Maybe it's best to break it down in small bits.
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Old 09.09.2014, 11:36
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

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You will definitely not get a B permit, but a G. A B is a residence/work permit for Switzerland. You won't reside in Switzerland, hence you get a G permit for border-commuters, only for work purposes, but will not be allowed to reside in Switzerland.

It is up to France to decide whether your non-EU gf can reside there.

She will not get a G permit to work in Switzerland. For non-EU border-commuters, a Switzerland-based company would have to go through the same process as for any non-EU citizen, i.e. need to prove that your gf is a specialist in a certain field and that there are no Swiss/EU/EFTA candidates for the specific job she's being considered for. This is not the case for about 95% of all jobs. And even if the company did prove all that, in the case of a border-commuter, an additional criterion is that he/she needs to have lived in the French border zone (! not just France, but the border zone) for an extended period of time (at least half a year, afaik, might be more). Clearly, this is not the case. Best bet is to look for a job in France, provided of course she will even get the respective permit - I have no idea about immigration laws in France.

If you both want to work, the easiest option is to get married and move to Switzerland.
Since you are English and will live in France, EU immigration law will apply. EU has a unified regulation with regard to family reunion.

An EU citizen living in another EU country (other than his home country) is entitled to bring his spouse (whatever nationality). The spouse will get a 5-year permit of the guest country with working right and derogation of the EU-priority in the job market, and after 5 years it will be upgraded to the permanent residence card of the guest country.

As Samaire13 pointed out, in your case, your gf (or future spouse) does not have much to do with Switzerland because you will not reside in Switzerland. Finding a job as an non-EU commuter is extremely difficult (if ever possible). On the other hand, it will be much easier for her to find a job in France (if you are married things will be much easier).
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Old 09.09.2014, 14:48
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

Thanks for all the advice everybody. miniMia, believe me there is absolutely no question of me fully understanding the complexities involved. The whole thing is a sodding nightmare!
To clarify the position with relation to Sarah's (my fiancee) work, she is a partner in a company who import wine into China. They will definitely be establishing an office using one of the private financial institutions in Geneva so that is set, but the company is currently not big enough, and has no need for, other employees in this office so they will be unable to gain a visa through the business route (i.e. employing swiss people). For administrative purposes there will also be a company established in France but this will essentially be little more than a shell to minimise paperwork, if that makes any difference.
Does anyone have any more idea about the EU situation or could Happyrobbie give any more details? I take it from all thats been said that it would be necessary for us to be married?
Also, would my work/earnings from Geneva satisfy any financial requirements that the French would have.
Thanks again in advance.
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Old 09.09.2014, 14:58
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

So what is it exactly that this company is trying to do? Sounds a bit dodgy.

Marriage PLUS a move to Switzerland is what would help, but that's about it...
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Old 09.09.2014, 15:09
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

Its not remotely dodgy. As the net closes in on secret wealth funds, lots of the private wealth firms are now expanding into domiciliation of other companies to allow them to avoid tax (think amazon, google or apple) by "living"in Switzerland. In this case, as they import wine, they want a presence in Europe to allow them to reach suppliers in Europe or even the new world more easily. So they're using this facility to open an office. Before anyone objects about the morality of potentially avoiding tax, that is absolutely not the case here. This will cost them a considerable amount of money and their tax liabilities will actually increase.
So I couldn't 'import' her into France then?
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Old 09.09.2014, 15:23
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

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Its not remotely dodgy. As the net closes in on secret wealth funds, lots of the private wealth firms are now expanding into domiciliation of other companies to allow them to avoid tax (think amazon, google or apple) by "living"in Switzerland. In this case, as they import wine, they want a presence in Europe to allow them to reach suppliers in Europe or even the new world more easily. So they're using this facility to open an office. Before anyone objects about the morality of potentially avoiding tax, that is absolutely not the case here. This will cost them a considerable amount of money and their tax liabilities will actually increase.
So I couldn't 'import' her into France then?
OK fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that she needs a work permit to work here, though, and that's what my "dodgy" referred to as I read that they're not planning to "go the visa route". That's not possible. You work here, you need a permit.

Import to France - no, not if she wants to work in Switzerland. See explanation above. Alternative is to find a job in France.
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Old 09.09.2014, 15:49
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

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Thanks for all the advice everybody. miniMia, believe me there is absolutely no question of me fully understanding the complexities involved. The whole thing is a sodding nightmare!
To clarify the position with relation to Sarah's (my fiancee) work, she is a partner in a company who import wine into China. They will definitely be establishing an office using one of the private financial institutions in Geneva so that is set, but the company is currently not big enough, and has no need for, other employees in this office so they will be unable to gain a visa through the business route (i.e. employing swiss people). For administrative purposes there will also be a company established in France but this will essentially be little more than a shell to minimise paperwork, if that makes any difference.
Does anyone have any more idea about the EU situation or could Happyrobbie give any more details? I take it from all thats been said that it would be necessary for us to be married?
Also, would my work/earnings from Geneva satisfy any financial requirements that the French would have.
Thanks again in advance.

Here. Make things easy for both of you. Get married and live IN Switzerland. What do you want to live in France for anyway?
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  #12  
Old 09.09.2014, 15:52
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Re: Non-EU fiance migration to Switzerland query. Help!

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OK fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that she needs a work permit to work here, though, and that's what my "dodgy" referred to as I read that they're not planning to "go the visa route". That's not possible. You work here, you need a permit.

Import to France - no, not if she wants to work in Switzerland. See explanation above. Alternative is to find a job in France.
I agree with Samaire13. Yes, they may be able to set up a company here, but it doesn't come with the right to live/work here for any employees as far as I know. If it's a GmbH or AG then it needs a Swiss resident as a director, which I assume is being taken care of by this financial company. However any other employee - which is what she will be no matter what her status is in the Chinese business - still has to be "hired" under the non-EU hiring rules of which more here at this link:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...gehoerige.html

Basically they've got to prove that only she can sell wine and make new contacts for the business and I can't see that as being specialised enough to disqualify Swiss/EU nationals from the post. Only advantage would be if the job needs written/spoken Mandarin possibly, but even then there may be Swiss/EU candidates who can do that equally well.
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