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  #21  
Old 20.11.2014, 16:28
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

Also another question for anybody who might be able to answer. Could the Gemeinde itself be responsible for the yes or no answer? Or is the process absolutley fixed and standard?
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  #22  
Old 20.11.2014, 18:06
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

Started this in August in ktn Zürich as my 5 year B was up in Oct, and certified A2 German is required. I have an A1 cert, and did the meeting in German with the odd bit of English, but it doesn't matter... they wanted to see the certificate for A2, and my wife actually has a C, but that didn't matter either. So no, the Gemiende has no say.

We were moving to Zug anyway, so was told to apply stop the application and reapply in Zug as Zürich could not guaranteed to comple the renwal process before our move date (they'd only had the file for 2.5 months). So we did, and Zug wanted a B1 certificate for a C permit, so they processed me another 5 year B, turned it round in 4 working days, and all I have to do is go back with CHF 25 and a B1 cert and they will give me a C.
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  #23  
Old 21.11.2014, 11:26
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

Just to throw another anecdote out there:

I have a C permit, granted in SZ granted in ZH many years ago before the language requirement. We moved to SZ shortly thereafter, transferred the permit. When I inquired about a possible move back to ZH I was told that to transfer a C permit I'd need to submit the documents required for a new application, including a language certificate. Were I to move into ZH without the language cert I might get downgraded to a B.

Now we all know that YMMV by the phase of the moon and the whim of the bureaucrat....



.

Last edited by meloncollie; 01.12.2014 at 22:04. Reason: Corrected order of events.
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  #24  
Old 21.11.2014, 12:48
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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Just to throw another anecdote out there:

I have a C permit, granted in SZ many years ago before the language requirement. When I inquired about a possible move to ZH I was told that to transfer a C permit I'd need to submit the documents required for a new application, including a language certificate. Were I to move into ZH without the language cert I might get downgraded to a B.

Now we all know that YMMV by the phase of the moon and the whim of the bureaucrat...
Are you EU or non-EU?

If you are non-EU, then they can ask you for language certificate if they want, and in theory they can downgrade you to B if you do not meet the requirement. This is because non-EU C permit is issued by a canton and is valid only inside that canton (of course you can work anywhere in Switzerland, but the right of residence is in the canton). When you change canton of residence you essentially ask for another C permit in the new canton. And since it is a new permit application, the new canton has the right to enforce their own requirement which is effective on the day of new application.

If you are EU, then they cannot downgrade your permit in changing canton. Because EU C (or even B) permits are valid all over Switzerland (it is also written clearly on the permit itself). When you change canton you do not ask for a new permit (they will probably take away you permit for a while anyway because the printed address needs to be changed, but you get back the same permit). However, when the 5-year validity runs out, during the renewal the new canton can ask for language certificate.
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  #25  
Old 23.11.2014, 23:39
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Thanks TheSpouse. I am drafting up a nice letter to the Gemeinde, crossing my fingers and hoping the Filz gets me thru this one . I am willing to take a language test just don't want to rush into it since I can communicate fairly well in German on a day to day basis.
You will receive a letter from the Migration office after you send in that usual B permit renewal form and write in the Remarks filed of the form that you would like to get a C permit as you've been here for a 5 years as an American. On that letter, it'll specify all the documents which you need to submit. That list should be (for Canton Zurich):
- debt letter (showing that you have no debt)
- social help letter (showing that you've never received social benefits)
- German certificate (A2 level is required for Canton Zurich; you might have heard otherwise as whether or not one needs this certificate depends on the nationality, but you will have to as an American, I'm afraid.)
- Employment contract

I sent in mine as requested and wrote a cover letter nicely in German and received my C permit in one week! The whole process from when I submitted my renewal form until when the C arrived took less than 1 month!

Good luck!

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Also another question for anybody who might be able to answer. Could the Gemeinde itself be responsible for the yes or no answer? Or is the process absolutley fixed and standard?
Gemeinde has no say. All they do is forward your renewal form to the Migration office. That's what my Gemeinde told me anyway.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.11.2014 at 12:51. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #26  
Old 24.11.2014, 01:53
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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- debt letter (showing that you have no debt)
- social help letter (showing that you've never received social benefits)
More specifically, a copy of each of those from each city you've lived in the last three years.

In my case the letter from the Migrationsamt said that I only needed the social help letter from the city of Zürich (it explicitly "send a copy of this letter to this address, and send us the confirmation that you will receive in the mail", and no mention of getting the same confirmation from other cities)... but once I sent them that, they requested a confirmation from other cities as well.
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  #27  
Old 24.11.2014, 12:36
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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Are you EU or non-EU?

If you are non-EU, then they can ask you for language certificate if they want, and in theory they can downgrade you to B if you do not meet the requirement. This is because non-EU C permit is issued by a canton and is valid only inside that canton (of course you can work anywhere in Switzerland, but the right of residence is in the canton). When you change canton of residence you essentially ask for another C permit in the new canton. And since it is a new permit application, the new canton has the right to enforce their own requirement which is effective on the day of new application.
I'm non-EU, so live in a state of perpetual uncertainty.
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  #28  
Old 24.11.2014, 15:18
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

Hi Ed,

You have to explicitly mention that you would like a C permit to the Geminde.

They might call you in for a german test if you don't have a B1 level german language certificate as proof. Luckily for me, they did not call me in for a test as my german is rudimentary and involves finger pointing and using the word "das" very often.

All the best!
Lisa
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  #29  
Old 25.11.2014, 18:57
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

Hi Sweetpumpkin,

I have not made it to the Gemeinde yet. Will go tomorrow, but I have prepared a letter requesting it and I usually anyway speak German with the staff there. So hopefully that gives me some points . I think I can pass a test but my grammar is not so great and it seems like these tests focus on that
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  #30  
Old 25.11.2014, 20:00
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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Hi Ed,

You have to explicitly mention that you would like a C permit to the Geminde.

They might call you in for a german test if you don't have a B1 level german language certificate as proof. Luckily for me, they did not call me in for a test as my german is rudimentary and involves finger pointing and using the word "das" very often.

All the best!
Lisa
What is your nationality, Lisa, if you don't mind sharing? This would be helpful for other EFers in the future.

OP is American and as far as I'm aware, an A2 level certificate will be required for Canton Zurich.
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  #31  
Old 25.11.2014, 21:34
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

After five years in Switzerland, when my B permit came up for renewal in ZH I asked for a C permit. I was never asked for my German level, although I did speak to all the necessary people/ write all the required letters in German. to be honest I never even realised that you need a certain level of German for a C permit. It took a month or so, but I got my C permit without any trouble.
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  #32  
Old 25.11.2014, 22:12
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

It depends on your nationality as to whether you need a language certificate or not. Theoretically a British national needs one in Zurich now but the requirement was only introduced recently. There are some Eurooean nationalities which have an agreement with Switzerland and those nationals are not required to pass the language test.

This post gives info on which countries don't need a language certificate. In theory all other nationals need at least A2 level German.

New language requirement for EU, C Permit

There are still several cantons which have no language requirements at all for obtaining a C permit for EU nationals. ( Neuchatel being one if them)
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  #33  
Old 25.11.2014, 22:18
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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It depends on your nationality as to whether you need a language certificate or not. Theoretically a British national needs one in Zurich now but the requirement was only introduced recently. There are some Eurooean nationalities which have an agreement with Switzerland and those nationals are not required to pass the language test.
Precisely what I was trying to tell OP! It's really confusing when people simply post their own experience without specifying their nationality and when they went through the process
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  #34  
Old 26.11.2014, 09:32
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

I am American. As with others here, I automatically received a B renewal form after 5 years. I asked for a C application at the Kreisbüro and eventually received the C permit without problems. This was in Stadt Zurich and I was never asked for a language certificate (the conversations were held in German, but by no means perfect German!)
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  #35  
Old 26.11.2014, 09:40
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

We still have B permits after more than 5 years, they gave us B not C last renewal due to unstable employment situation.
Coming up for another renewal next year, will see.
I don't really mind B or C, in fact B is simpler in some ways but we should eventually get C permits.
I think if there is any doubt they just renew B for another year, but probably varies from canton to canton.
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  #36  
Old 26.11.2014, 09:46
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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Hi all,

I know that this year I should be eligible for a C permit. However, today in the mail I received the same old B Permit Verlängerungsgesuch as every other year with no mention of a C. I was hoping I would automatically be offered a C permit but seems no dice.


Ed
Hey there, nothing is automatic here in Switzerland. For every single change and demand, you should do an official request.
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  #37  
Old 26.11.2014, 10:45
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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I am American. As with others here, I automatically received a B renewal form after 5 years. I asked for a C application at the Kreisbüro and eventually received the C permit without problems. This was in Stadt Zurich and I was never asked for a language certificate (the conversations were held in German, but by no means perfect German!)
Nanners, when was this?

The ZH language requirement came into force only a few years ago. (2010? 2012?) If your C permit was granted before then it would make sense that no language certificate was required. But if after 2010 0r 2012... it would be very interesting to know if the cantonal regs are not being applied across the board.
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  #38  
Old 26.11.2014, 11:07
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

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it would be very interesting to know if the cantonal regs are not being applied across the board.
From my dealings with a B renewal in August initially in ktn Zürich but finally in ktn Zug, both were strictly applying the language certificate rules A2 in ZH, B1 in ZG.

As an aside the new rules do seem to be impacting on ZH's ability to turn applications into permits. My wife applied for her B permit renewal (we have no hang ups for B or C) in March 2014. They asked her for an additional form, no language cert and 3 weeks later her C arrived unasked for under the old reg's. I applied in August 2014 under the new regs and I used my wife's form and requirements as a template thinking it would be a breeze... no such luck, and I pulled the plug after 2.5 months. I would recommend folks send the renewal form in as soon as they get them, as in my experience it is taking much longer now.


The OP is unlikely to get anywhere as the Swiss do love their rules, and the rules are Kantonal so the gemeinde has no imput. No A2 cert another B simple really, but sadly not what he wants to hear.

Many of these post are of little value as given the rules change THIS summer. What happened in Geneva or Basel in 2012 is of little use to someone wanting information in Zurich now.
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  #39  
Old 26.11.2014, 12:20
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

What about renewal of existing C permit within Kt. Zurich? Do they now ask for a language certificate.

We moved from BS to ZH in 2010 - we just swapped our C permits for ZH ones. And in 2011 got our 5 yearly renewal with no language requirement.

Looked on the document on the Zurich Migrationsamt website but didn't see anything - sorry if I missed it.
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Old 26.11.2014, 12:28
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Re: Changing my B permit to a C Permit

My understanding, but not definitive knowledge is that your renewal would be subject to the same rules, therefore no cert and you and be issued with a B.

My wife when she swapped her C in ZH for a C in ZG, her renewal date remained the same. I asked why and was told it was not a renewal just a ktn change. So in march 2019 she will likely get a B at renewal... unless she can be bothered to do a test, which is as likely as me out sprinting Usain Bolt
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