We have a rather peculiar situation which seems absurd from the point of view of a citizen of a normal western country but seems to be rapidly going out of control in CH.

Last year we had a family emergency (my father was sick) and we had to travel back to Au on short notice. We asked for permission to take the kids out school for a few weeks so we can visit him - seemed like a reasonable request. Nevertheless the request was rejected ??? I had no choice but to go anyway since I cant leave the kids here by themselves and I needed to take care of my family abroad (also the kids got a last chance to see their grandfather).

The schulsecreteriat threatened us with large fines (they said something like 5kchf per kid, we have 2 kids). So I just de-registered them and left the country. After 6 weeks we returned once my family emergency was settled. The kids visa were cancelled and we had to pay to have them redone.

Unfortunately the guy from the schulsecreteriat seemed to be especially annoyed that we didn't do what he commanded and escalated the matter to the police. We now have a summons to appear before the police (like common criminals!) for going to our homeland.

My reasoning is that technically the kids were not resident in ch so there is simply no jurisdiction but IANAL :-(. It just seems a bit ridiculous to me and frankly I feel like my civil rights have been trampled - I need to ask permission from some bureaucrat if I can go visit my sick father? this is ridiculous.

Anyway it seems the situation is starting to get out of hand - I am strongly considering getting legal representation moving forward but I know its going to be expensive - on the other hand it seems like the the most that would happen is this (heavy) fine but maybe its going to work out cheaper than the legal costs?

Anyone else experience such craziness? Any advice for a good lawyer that can at least tell me if I have any ground here?

In some ways I am resolved this to be just the cost of doing business in CH - but the sheer injustice makes me quite angry. I kind of thought of CH as a reasonable country with reasonable civil rights.

Missing school for 6 weeks, is a very long time, one or two weeks is acceptable for this type of emergency, but 6 weeks......

Yeah I guess that is why they did not want to give permission. Nevertheless it should not matter since they were residing in another country and therefore was frankly none of the Swiss business. If we stayed longer they would have had to go to school in Aus anyway.

Rule number 1 in CH: Nobody (authorities included) appreciate to be outsmarted by law bypassers.

Your case is very week, but if you want to rise costs, go for it and meet the authorities in front of the judge.

Not talking about the very embarrassing Situation for your kids. Are you aware that they have to face teachers and classmates still for years coming?


Well, you could have left. It's just that your children couldn't, by law.

I feel for you; and yes, also for me, family is before the law;

but if you willingly risk to break it, just admit it and pay.

When you came to Switzerland, you did it probably for your higher salary, so you should have put it into account in outweighing other big disadvantages (e.g. a distance from a very far away place).


P.S. Try to handle the case with "Continental wisdom" (Forget everything you learned in Australia), not against the school your Kids will be pupils of, but together with them.

Your only chance.

What do you mean, "like" common criminals? You were advised of the law, chose to try to find a way around it, and were caught out.

Nothing about your situation reflects your subject line. Having chosen to remove your children from Switzerland, I'd say you were lucky that they're actually letting you bring them back in.

You tried to circumvent the law, and were caught out.

Behave like an adult and accept the consequences.

Tom

I guess this is what it boils down to - the attitude towards personal freedom, decision making and what is reasonable. In Aus this is not so black and white. My sister had to travel too and she just told her children's teacher the same thing - they received work they could do and it was totally not a problem. I guess Aus is more progressive about schooling in general with distance education as an option (e.g. if you work in the mines or on cattle stations).

I am not sure what it has to do with the kids - they are back in school and are not affected by it. Its basically all about money here - its obviously not even about the welfare of the children or even a deterrent. If this happened again tomorrow I would still do it again - I will just have to budget for it a bit better.

Im not entirely sure that its a European thing though - lots of people I spoke to were really surprised to hear about the harshness and stubbornness of the Swiss decision to what seems to a reasonable person to be a reasonable request.

I even spoke to many Swiss people who had no problem taking their kids out, even to go on holidays camping on a road trip for 3 months. Either its an anti-foreigner thing or it depends a lot on the Gemenide.

One thing seems to me to be the case - the law in CH is very strict (to the extreme of oppressive at times) with a lot of wiggle room provided to the authorities. This means that the overall effect is an inconsistently applied law which really depends on the individual bureaucrat and their mood of the day. If you get a nice guy in your Gemeinde they can approve it, but if not you have no choice but to break the law and therefore pay for it. If you make enough money to not flinch at the fine its just the cost of doing business and you move on. One law for the rich, one law for the Swiss another for the expat.

I found references in the forum for other people who apparently went through the same process of getting a summons to speak with the police over fines for not registering in time etc. Does anyone know what is the process? Is this something that I must have a lawyer for? Common wisdom is to never speak to police without a lawyer for fear of "anything you may say will be used against you". Is this reasonable here? Can I maintain my right to silence? Do I even have one?

You have to accept that you are not in Australia. With all the stress and pain that this acceptance carries with it.

About "I even spoke to many Swiss people who had no problem taking their kids out, even to go on holidays camping on a road trip for 3 months. " I find this very surprising; I do not know any Swiss people who had such success without heavy fines but I have only been here 20 years.

I agree with the poster who said "you are lucky your kids were allowed to resume school"

Of course OP's children have the right and the duty to attend school, independently from any question of what their father did.

Anyway they got lucky that the case is not penal, because otherwise not only would the visa not have been granted, but also the family's permits revoked, I guess. If I understand it right, we are not there yet.

The thing is that quite every continental European country tries to protect childrens' right, plus intends to put a barrier on human trafficking, not without success. Basic education is far better than in any Anglo-Saxon country, and expat bubbles exist (you are a living proof ), but less than in other places.

I do agree with you that bureaucrats sometimes overreact and overact.
However, consider that a 6-week absence is not just a short time (the law speaking about 2 half-days in a whole year, if I got it right), and depending on the number of your relatives down under, one could justify a "Holiday" for years.

Again, it's the law. Of course sometimes the law can be stressed. But for sure not in the way you try to.

Again here we go, the old question about mistrust towards institutions and authorities.
Yes, authorities sometimes exaggerate. They commit errors, too.
But it's much more unlikely to get killed by authorities in Switzerland than in quite any other country, so ... maybe something doesn't work so terribly bad.

Anyhow, in your case authorities want to protect your children from your bias. And also if I can understand you, they are not completely wrong.

Here I found a similar case of SG of a couple of years ago:

http://www.gerichte.sg.ch/home/diens..._2010_240.html

It is a basic of the law regarding education that it is an offence to deprive a child of their education. This trumps parental rights.

It can also, on the other hand, be used as a stick to beat the authorities over their heads to ensure your child gets a good education.

Yes it does. The Swiss have a different definition from you. Which is better is a matter of opinion.

a friend of mine summarized Switzerland and the Swiss very well which you should consider before any interaction, especially with a bureaucrat "in Switzerland a thing is either mandatory or prohibited"

Just because you don't know anyone personally doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I know a couple of people (actually know them as opposed to know of them) who have done what OP describes. One a six month roadtrip, one an extended holiday (more than two weeks). As OP describes, it is very much dependent on the person you get handling your case and those people often take it as a personal offence if you work around their ruling (not even necessarily do anything illegal). OP did exactly that, found a legal way around it as far as I can tell.

Good luck to you!

I think this is highly unlikely, unless you have some agreement on home schooling during the trip. Just not going to school when the kids are at an age that they have to, I cannot imagine that that would be allowed.
And if the OP has found a legal way is to be debated, it seems some authorities think differently

Well I've been here for over 25 years too and my kids went through the local school system. And although I heard of a few parents seeking long extensions, I can't recall any being granted.

The OP tried to circumvent the law and rightly got caught for it.

Schools don't refuse to let kids out of class for extended periods to be awkward.

Your children have missed a significant period of education. They are going to require special attention to help them catch up, possibly to the detriment of their classmates.

Foreign children are already at a disadvantage in school. Your selfishness has increased that. A 10k fine isn't going to help your children, but at least it might help you realise the world doesn't revolve around you.

As mentioned previously, it appears to be very dependent on the gemeinde / school authorities / petty bureaucrat you encounter when you make your request. if you are on good terms with them, there's a better chance of the request being granted. if they don't like your face - bad luck.

I've seen 2 instances of children being taken out of kindergarten for three months for road trips in our Gemeinde. It might be age-related, though. If your kids are in Kindergarten, the compulsory attendance rule might be less strictly enforced. Historically Kindergarten wasn't compulsory, although it is now.

If only for a couple of weeks, the teacher can supply the material and your kid can keep up on the road. If you go for longer, yes, you have to reach some home schooling agreement. Not ideal and not for every kid but desperate times call for desperate measures and it's not like OP went on an extended holiday but went to look after family.

Downunder, teachers and schools are a lot more accommodating and flexible in that regard and they have a great school system (NZ for example is a breeding ground for groundbreaking educational work and research that has influenced the rest of the education world again and again), nothing to sneer at. I know both systems intimately and value both for different reasons.

Most kids will cope quite well with a situation as described and most teachers should too.

Just a shame for the OP that he resides in Switzerland and not in down under (where everything seems to be better according to some people).
In Oz and NZ home schooling may be common but that is also due to the fact that schools are much more remote. In Switzerland most schools are in easy distance so there is no need for home schooling and therefore it is not as accepted.
I understand the reasons from OP (have been in similar situations) but he also should accept the fact that this is Switzerland and Switzerland has different rules and rulings.

Here's how it breaks down:

1) You have a right to be here, and therefore probably* so do your children. Switzerland can't deny them residency.
*depends on your nationality and permit type.

2) While they are resident in Switzerland, they have the right and the obligation to attend school. The (local, public, non-gymnasium) school can't deny them admission.

3) What the school can do, if it wants to play hardball, is refuse to let them re-enter the same class: argue that they've missed too much of the curriculum and now need to repeat the year. This can be done either now, or at the end of term/end of year.

Note that I don't really see what the police have to do with any of this, so perhaps I'm missing something. But #3 above is definitely an option if the school decides to play it that way.

Having said that, if your children are struggling a bit gradewise in the first place, this may not be altogether a bad idea. (It does happen occasionally at gymnasium level: parents send an academically struggling kid on an Auslandsemester as a way of quietly dropping him back a year without social stigma or a blot on his school record. Of course most Auslandsemester aren't taken for this purpose but it does happen.)


tl;dr - Denying them admission isn't an option for the school; dropping them back a grade is. Depending on their grades the latter could in fact be a blessing in disguise. If you feel it isn't, I'd shut up and pay the fine.

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It wasn't "a couple of weeks" it was 6 WEEKS !!!