English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Permits/visas/government (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/)
-   -   Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification (https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/235765-spouse-eu-citizen-who-non-eu-reunification.html)

bge0 19.06.2015 14:12

Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Hello,

I know this question has been asked a lot. But we are in a slight dilemma.
I am an Italian citizen who has really never lived in Italy and have an American wife.

We jointly applied for our permits (under reunification) about 4 months ago. We decided to come to Geneva to tour around Europe for a while before I start working. Due to some delays I only JUST got my B permit. However, when talking to the cantonal office they stated that my wife's permit would take a 'few more months'. My wife came here with her US passport (as a tourist) expecting our paperwork to be done.

At this point what are our options? Would she have to leave the country? Could I get dual apartments in France and Switzerland and have her stay there?

Thanks.

Medea Fleecestealer 19.06.2015 14:23

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bge0 (Post 2407241)
Hello,

I know this question has been asked a lot. But we are in a slight dilemma.
I am an Italian citizen who has really never lived in Italy and have an American wife.

We jointly applied for our permits (under reunification) about 4 months ago. We decided to come to Geneva to tour around Europe for a while before I start working. Due to some delays I only JUST got my B permit. However, when talking to the cantonal office they stated that my wife's permit would take a 'few more months'. My wife came here with her US passport (as a tourist) expecting our paperwork to be done.

At this point what are our options? Would she have to leave the country? Could I get dual apartments in France and Switzerland and have her stay there?

Thanks.

At this point what are our options?
Hope that it gets sorted out quickly. Or go to the UK for a while until her permit is ready. The UK isn't in the Schengen area.

Would she have to leave the country?
Yes. If you're coming here from the States then she needs a Type D visa to enter Switzerland long term legally anyway and she has to apply for that in the States.

Could I get dual apartments in France and Switzerland and have her stay there?
No, because her status as a tourist applies to the whole of the Schengen area and not just Switzerland. So she's only allowed to stay in the Schengen area for 3 months max.

bge0 19.06.2015 14:40

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
So if she leaves to goto the UK (I have family she can stay with there) then she can come back when the permit is ready?

Medea Fleecestealer 19.06.2015 15:56

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Yes. Because the UK isn't part of the Schengen Area she can stay up to 3 months here as a tourist and then go to the UK for another 3 months as a tourist. She might also be able to apply for the Type D visa at the Swiss embassy there. Worth checking on and obviously not as expensive as having to fly back to the States to apply and wait for it there.

bge0 19.06.2015 16:01

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2407307)
Yes. Because the UK isn't part of the Schengen Area she can stay up to 3 months here as a tourist and then go to the UK for another 3 months as a tourist. She might also be able to apply for the Type D visa at the Swiss embassy there. Worth checking on and obviously not as expensive as having to fly back to the States to apply and wait for it there.

Thank you very much! I will update this thread with the results of this endeavor !

jhm3 19.06.2015 16:21

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2407307)
Yes. Because the UK isn't part of the Schengen Area she can stay up to 3 months here as a tourist and then go to the UK for another 3 months as a tourist. She might also be able to apply for the Type D visa at the Swiss embassy there. Worth checking on and obviously not as expensive as having to fly back to the States to apply and wait for it there.

Indeed, and visitors to the UK can stay there for up to six months (rather than three, as in Schengen), which hopefully is way more than enough time for the permit to come through ...

Medea Fleecestealer 19.06.2015 16:22

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Yes, please do because it's always useful to have people's actual experiences when dealing with the various cantons/communes in Switzerland. They do vary in how they deal with these things. :)

Medea Fleecestealer 19.06.2015 16:40

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jhm3 (Post 2407319)
Indeed, and visitors to the UK can stay there for up to six months (rather than three, as in Schengen), which hopefully is way more than enough time for the permit to come through ...

Guess the State Department hasn't updated their info then. :p

http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...d-kingdom.html

jhm3 19.06.2015 16:51

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2407335)
Guess the State Department hasn't updated their info then. :p

http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...d-kingdom.html

No, it would seem not!

From the UK immigration authorities:

"A visitor is a person who is coming to the UK, usually for up to six months, for a temporary purpose, for example as a tourist, to visit friends or family or to carry out a business activity....

"A non-visa national [e.g., a US citizen] may apply for a visit visa, but is not required to unless
they are:
(a) visiting the UK to marry or to form a civil partnership, or to give notice
of this; or
(b) seeking to visit the UK for more than 6 months...."

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...v_final_v2.pdf

bge0 19.06.2015 17:07

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
@Medea Fleecestealer , regarding the stay in France: can she not become a resident (of France) through my EU citizenship? Or would I also have to live in France to accomplish this? Thus my question of the two apartments.

jhm3 19.06.2015 17:24

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bge0 (Post 2407347)
can she not become a resident (of France) through my EU citizenship?

No, I wouldn't think so (unless you would be living in France with her); her free movement/residence rights in France and the rest of the EU only exist in conjunction with your right as an EU citizen to be accompanied by your family members.

The following from the French consulates in the US on visa requirements for "American family members of European passport holders" is relevant:

"Please note that you do not need any visa to enter and live in France for longer than 3 months if :
"You hold a valid U.S. passport;
"And you are the legal spouse (acte de mariage/French marriage certificate) or child (under 18y.o.) of a citizen of the above listed [European] countries;
"And you are accompanying your spouse / parent who is also moving to France.
"However, you will have to apply for the residence permit ("carte de séjour pour membre de famille d’un ressortissant européen") within 2 months of entry into France, at the Préfecture of city of residence. Note that it is always advisable to contact the Préfecture BEFORE leaving the U.S., in order to get a complete list of documents to provide to apply for such permit."

http://www.consulfrance-atlanta.org/...hp?article2735

bge0 19.06.2015 18:40

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Thank you, this makes sense regarding that. One follow up question though:

Would not leaving cause an issue with the acquisition of the residence permit? I.e. what if she had left through France for example? They wouldn't be able to track that right?

HeatherM 19.06.2015 19:07

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Hi,

I was thinking that your wife may not have a paper permit, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's not registered as a resident. I'm Canadian and moved here with my British husband in 2005, so it was also the case of me needing a familial regroupment permit courtesy of having an EU spouse. Although it took a few months for me to get my physical permit, I was considered a resident of Switzerland from the day I got off the plane. For 17.- CHF I got a printed attestation from the commune confirming my residency status, and with this I could sort out all sorts of administrative things and also travel outside the country. It was legally equivalent to a permit, only it was a piece of A4 paper instead of a little booklet with my photo in it.

Perhaps it would be worth clarifying whether it is your wife's residency status that will take a few months to sort out, or if the the delay is just for the official permis. At least in Vaud, it's not unusual for permits to take months to arrive after their start date. My last renewal took almost half a year.

If you can confirm her residency status, hopefully she can stay here with you and she won't have to worry about all this France/England nonsense.

H.

Atenea 19.06.2015 19:56

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherM (Post 2407407)
Hi,

I was thinking that your wife may not have a paper permit, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's not registered as a resident. I'm Canadian and moved here with my British husband in 2005, so it was also the case of me needing a familial regroupment permit courtesy of having an EU spouse. Although it took a few months for me to get my physical permit, I was considered a resident of Switzerland from the day I got off the plane. For 17.- CHF I got a printed attestation from the commune confirming my residency status, and with this I could sort out all sorts of administrative things and also travel outside the country. It was legally equivalent to a permit, only it was a piece of A4 paper instead of a little booklet with my photo in it.

Perhaps it would be worth clarifying whether it is your wife's residency status that will take a few months to sort out, or if the the delay is just for the official permis. At least in Vaud, it's not unusual for permits to take months to arrive after their start date. My last renewal took almost half a year.

If you can confirm her residency status, hopefully she can stay here with you and she won't have to worry about all this France/England nonsense.

H.

I agree. If the OP's wife applied for the permit upon arrival in Switzerland, I believe that she should be able to stay in Switzerland until the permit is issued, which may take several months. At least this is what happened with me in Vaud. I am from Argentina, married to EU national and the permit took five months to arrive but I was not required to return home during such period. I also got the attestation from the commune.

bge0 19.06.2015 20:41

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
We actually applied before coming to Switzerland. I hope that this is the case for her permit! Thank you all!

Atenea 19.06.2015 21:36

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bge0 (Post 2407441)
We actually applied before coming to Switzerland. I hope that this is the case for her permit! Thank you all!

I am not entirely sure, but if you applied before coming I believe that the situation may be different.

Bucentaure 19.06.2015 21:39

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
If OP earns enough, and if the apartment fits with the minimum requirements for foreigners in CH (dependent upon the canton),


OP's wife has every right to stay legally in CH, being married to an EU citizen. EUs are priviledged.


If Geneva authorities need more time in issuing a permit is irrelevant.

bge0 19.06.2015 22:32

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
This should be fine: I am currently earning 60k CHF and am staying in a house with a family friend.

vydriduch 20.06.2015 01:50

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bge0 (Post 2407241)
At this point what are our options? Would she have to leave the country?

Do feel free to ask the cantonal migration authority, they are in charge. Provided she has registered as a resident at your address, there is likely nothing to worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucentaure (Post 2407459)
If OP earns enough, and if the apartment fits with the minimum requirements for foreigners in CH (dependent upon the canton), OP's wife has every right to stay

The above is indeed sufficient, but not necessary.

It is sufficient that the OP be employed. They do not have to earn "enough".

The apartment should satisfy the minimum requirements for Swiss in CH.

More specifically:
A person who has the right of residence and is a national of a Contracting Party is entitled to be joined by the members of his family. An employed person must possess housing for his family which is regarded as of normal standard for national employed persons in the region where he is employed, but this provision may not lead to discrimination between national employed persons and employed persons from the other Contracting Party.

Agreement on the free movement of persons, Annex I, Article 3
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02002A0430%2801%29-20120401


Island Monkey 20.06.2015 01:57

Re: Spouse of an EU citizen (who is non-EU) reunification
 
Has your wife's permit been approved, D-visa issued and you are now just waiting a few months for the permit to be issued?

OR

Has her permit not been approved and D visa not issued yet?

If the later she may need to return home to pick up the D visa, it is issued where it was applied for (The U.S.?), then enter Switzerland properly.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:12.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0