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Old 06.10.2015, 14:17
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Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

Hi everyone, just a bit of backstory for people. I currently live in the canton of Geneva and I am undergoing the process of naturalization. In July, the process was suspended as I am at University in the UK and it will resume on my return. Thing is that I have a carte de legitimation, which lasts until the age of 25 and I will be a little over 23 by the time I resume the naturalization process. I have roughly 1 year and 9 months to finish the process, but I know that Geneva is notorious for taking long so I'm not sure if that is enough time (I have already waited 2 years in the process).

My mother works at UNOG and she is also on a carte de legitimation; currently I am financially dependent on her. I have been trying to find ways to potentially extend my time in Switzerland via things like student permits for studies and so on.

I imagine that by the time I need to extend my time, the naturalization process should be nearly over and I might still be considered a dependent of my mother. Is it possible to switch to a resident B permit from a CDL under these circumstances? I am non-EU as well (USA).
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Old 06.10.2015, 15:39
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

If your mother has a carte de legitimation so do you regardless of your age until you reach 25. As you're over 18 you won't be eligible for a non-EU dependent's permit at that point I don't think. So you must either get a job here to get a permit, go to uni to get a student permit or leave the country.

Whether being in the process of naturalisation would halt this I don't know. If it does then I assume you may be granted some sort of temporary permit until a decision is made.

At least you are in the process already so the new naturalisation law changes shouldn't affect you. It's pretty impossible for dependents on a carte de legitimation to get a C permit at the moment which is a requirement under the new law.
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Old 06.10.2015, 15:53
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

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At least you are in the process already so the new naturalisation law changes shouldn't affect you. It's pretty impossible for dependents on a carte de legitimation to get a C permit at the moment which is a requirement under the new law.
Yes, this is the big plus of OP's application.


Much less do I understand how one could gamble this by studying abroad (i.e. putting the process on hold), putting the whole thing at risk.


Chances of getting even a simple L Permit for bloody fresh-from-the-university non-EU citizens are slim. If until then the naturalization process is not finished, bye bye Swiss citizenship for a long time.
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Old 06.10.2015, 16:09
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

Yes, becoming a student would probably be the best option if she can manage it. B permit is guaranteed that way.
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Old 06.10.2015, 22:34
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

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Yes, becoming a student would probably be the best option if she can manage it. B permit is guaranteed that way.
That is what I thought as well. But I asked the people at the cantonal population control office and they said something interesting.

They told me that since I had lived in Geneva since 2004, I could apparently be eligible to apply for a B permit outside of the student visa. They checked my record too, but I am not too sure if they noted that I am American or not. Are there any comments on this?
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Old 07.10.2015, 07:45
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

This is all I found:

"The legitimation card issued by the DFAE does not give its holder any particular rights with respect to continued residence in Switzerland upon termination of his or her official functions. However, for many years the Swiss authorities have followed a practice facilitating the continued residence in Switzerland of international civil servants and their family members in this situation, allowing them to be granted a residence permit or a settlement permit (B or C permit) in certain cases."

http://home.web.cern.ch/cern-people/...ss-nationality

It may depend on your nationality and age. Usually a non-EU national needs a pre-approved job offer where an employer has proven they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job.

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...zulassung.html

My worry would be that if you lose the carte/reach 25 then you may no longer be considered as your mother's dependent and would be expected to stand on your own two feet. In which case the non-EU hiring rule may kick in.

It's certainly worth enquiring about it further though.
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Old 07.10.2015, 11:50
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

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My worry would be that if you lose the carte/reach 25 then you may no longer be considered as your mother's dependent and would be expected to stand on your own two feet.
...
Which means that Idfire needs a permit after age 25, not that she/he would be financially independent or whatever (that would be the Anglo-Saxon view, but has nothing to do with Swiss law and European Continental mentality).


The 2 things are not the same, which might be OP's luck, again.
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Old 07.10.2015, 12:23
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

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My worry would be that if you lose the carte/reach 25 then you may no longer be considered as your mother's dependent and would be expected to stand on your own two feet. In which case the non-EU hiring rule may kick in.
Non-EU nationals can usually only bring children under 18 with them when they move here, for carte de legitimation that's obviously up to 25 years of age. After that I think the Swiss will expect them to be financially independent with a job here or will be looking for them to move back home and start working there. They are adults after all, not children any longer. If there's a reason why they can't work and have to be financially supported by their parents then yes, maybe the authorities would grant a permit. But if they're perfectly capable of working, then that's what the authorities will want to see. She could not continue with the Ci permit so must get a job if she wants to stay here.

But if the permit the cantonal office mentioned is available then it's worth her enquiring more into the requirements, if any, especially if she wants to continue with the naturalisation process once she finishes uni. If it is available without her having to find a job or become a student then that would certainly be the way to go.

Let us know what you find out Idfire10035. It'll be interesting to know if it's possible or not and useful for others in a similar situation.
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Old 07.10.2015, 13:02
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

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Non-EU nationals can usually only bring children under 18 with them when they move here, for carte de legitimation that's obviously up to 25 years of age. After that I think the Swiss will expect them to be financially independent with a job here or will be looking for them to move back home and start working there. They are adults after all, not children any longer.
...
This is not Swiss thinking, neither a European one.


What is important is to have a permit, not to be financially independent.
Not that the one would have nothing at all to do with the other, but there are only a "few" points of concern between the two.


There are many ways to get a permit, a few of which cope with the idea of financial independence. Others don't or do only partially.
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Old 07.10.2015, 13:05
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

Okay, how do you think she could do it? A non-EU national with no job here? Too old for the Ci so what's left?
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Old 07.10.2015, 13:35
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Re: Carte de Legitimation to resident B permit?

Imho,
she has to decide what is more important to her: Swiss citizenship or London diploma.
If it's naturalization, personally I would come back to CH and make the process go on, on time. And again, learn French asap.
If it's the UK diploma, I would stay at London, come back afterwards and enroll in a GE university, again with a good French. Of course non-EU have to show (but afaik only to the uni, and they will help) they have enough money, but this is not the same thing (and the same amount) as being financial independent.
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