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Old 09.10.2015, 02:23
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Swiss spouse B permit renewal

Hi everyone.

I maybe a bit ahead of time, but my current B permit as a swiss spouse will expire early next year and I will have to renew it, as it requires renewal every year until the 5th year.

Can anyone here with the experience advise what documents should I prepare? I will be traveling to my home country soon (non EU), so I would like to be prepared if I need to bring back any documents from motherland

Oh. also one more question. I started working in VD this year (while my permit was granted in GE). Should I explain that to OCP when I renew the permit?

Thanks for any help.
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Old 12.10.2015, 21:50
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

Where you work doesn't matter as far as your permit is concerned. You're taxed where you live so that's what's important - and that's still Geneva. They may want to know for their records, but that's all.

As for what documentation you need have a look on this PDF on page 2

http://www.ge.ch/etrangers-confedere...ation-visa.pdf
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Old 12.10.2015, 22:29
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate that.

I think the link you have attached is for the prolongation of "Visa". Sorry if my original posting wasn't clear but I'm looking for the info on the permit. As far as I know, visa and permit have different natures and legal power here. (visa is to enter the country and the permit is to stay in Switzerland.)
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Old 12.10.2015, 22:41
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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Hi. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate that.

I think the link you have attached is for the prolongation of "Visa". Sorry if my original posting wasn't clear but I'm looking for the info on the permit. As far as I know, visa and permit have different natures and legal power here. (visa is to enter the country and the permit is to stay in Switzerland.)
The words tend to be interchangeable, but looking further I think this is the one you need.

http://www.ge.ch/etrangers-confedere...ire-non-ue.pdf

or possibly this one

http://www.ge.ch/etrangers-confedere...mulaire-ue.pdf

Not sure which version - if they're different - would be used for someone married to a Swiss national.
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Old 12.10.2015, 22:50
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

This isn't for your canton but I think the procedure is at least a little similar.

For my annual spousal B permits, I didn't need any additional documentation from home. I received the renewal paperwork a few months before the permit was due to expire and had to sign again that we're still married, no plans to divorce, etc. I was not working, and my OH continued working for the same company the whole time. So he didn't need to provide a new payslip or contract.

If you're now working as well, then you'll add that info to the section of the form that talks about working (at least my form had a section for employment).

I received a letter telling me when my new permit was ready and had to go to the office to exchange the old one and pay the fee for the new. I think some cantons just mail the new permit with a bill though. Hope this helps reassure you it shouldn't be too much of a process!
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Old 12.10.2015, 22:54
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Hi. thanks for the quick response! I think the first link (form M) is what I was looking for, as I am non-EU (hors UE/AELE). I will take a look into the info listed in this doc. Thanks again!

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This isn't for your canton but I think the procedure is at least a little similar.

For my annual spousal B permits, I didn't need any additional documentation from home. I received the renewal paperwork a few months before the permit was due to expire and had to sign again that we're still married, no plans to divorce, etc. I was not working, and my OH continued working for the same company the whole time. So he didn't need to provide a new payslip or contract.

If you're now working as well, then you'll add that info to the section of the form that talks about working (at least my form had a section for employment).

I received a letter telling me when my new permit was ready and had to go to the office to exchange the old one and pay the fee for the new. I think some cantons just mail the new permit with a bill though. Hope this helps reassure you it shouldn't be too much of a process!

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. That definitely helps.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 14.10.2015 at 20:04. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 07.02.2021, 09:59
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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This isn't for your canton but I think the procedure is at least a little similar.

For my annual spousal B permits, I didn't need any additional documentation from home. I received the renewal paperwork a few months before the permit was due to expire and had to sign again that we're still married, no plans to divorce, etc. I was not working, and my OH continued working for the same company the whole time. So he didn't need to provide a new payslip or contract.

If you're now working as well, then you'll add that info to the section of the form that talks about working (at least my form had a section for employment).

I received a letter telling me when my new permit was ready and had to go to the office to exchange the old one and pay the fee for the new. I think some cantons just mail the new permit with a bill though. Hope this helps reassure you it shouldn't be too much of a process!
3Wishes, did you also have to present your passport? On your spouse B permit, how many days minimum do you need to spend in Switzerland every year to qualify for renewal (if there is such a rule?)

Thank you
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Old 07.02.2021, 10:04
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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3Wishes, did you also have to present your passport? On your spouse B permit, how many days minimum do you need to spend in Switzerland every year to qualify for renewal (if there is such a rule?)

Thank you
Normally you need to make sure the Gemeinde always has a copy of your current passport. And yes, there are rules on how much time you need to spend in CH.

https://www.aufenthaltsbewilligung-a...-bewilligungen
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Old 07.02.2021, 10:07
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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3Wishes, did you also have to present your passport? On your spouse B permit, how many days minimum do you need to spend in Switzerland every year to qualify for renewal (if there is such a rule?)

Thank you
Pretty much all year I'd guess since one of the requirements to get the permit is that the whole family live together. You being out of the country most of the time doesn't meet that requirement.

Obviously if you travel a lot for business so are constantly coming and going but your centre of life is here that's different, but if you think to get a Swiss permit then spend the majority of your time in another country, only coming back here for say a couple of months in total, then no, the permit would become invalid since you aren't meeting one of it's requirements.
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Old 07.02.2021, 10:18
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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Pretty much all year I'd guess since one of the requirements to get the permit is that the whole family live together. You being out of the country most of the time doesn't meet that requirement.

Obviously if you travel a lot for business so are constantly coming and going but your centre of life is here that's different, but if you think to get a Swiss permit then spend the majority of your time in another country, only coming back here for say a couple of months in total, then no, the permit would become invalid since you aren't meeting one of it's requirements.
Thank you!

For my situation, it would be my work as a limiting factor (as a non-German speaker, I would have much better job prospects in the UK. I would consider working part-time in the UK and spending the remainder of my time in Switzerland, rather than live in Switzerland full time and possibly being completely unemployed)

Is there any particular official document that we could refer to that mentions anything about this? (Zurich)
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Old 07.02.2021, 10:32
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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Thank you!

For my situation, it would be my work as a limiting factor (as a non-German speaker, I would have much better job prospects in the UK. I would consider working part-time in the UK and spending the remainder of my time in Switzerland, rather than live in Switzerland full time and possibly being completely unemployed)

Is there any particular official document that we could refer to that mentions anything about this? (Zurich)
That simply is not what a reunification permit is for. Check the link and translate it in deepl.
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Old 07.02.2021, 10:36
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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Thank you!

For my situation, it would be my work as a limiting factor (as a non-German speaker, I would have much better job prospects in the UK. I would consider working part-time in the UK and spending the remainder of my time in Switzerland, rather than live in Switzerland full time and possibly being completely unemployed)

Is there any particular official document that we could refer to that mentions anything about this? (Zurich)
Here, from the Swiss perspective, the relevant question is about the "centre point" or "middle point" of your life. A permit will be cancelled if it is deemed that your life's main focus is not here in Switzerland.

For some explanation on this, please see this related thread which, in turn, links to other threads about this concept of "middle point".
https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...itzerland.html
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Old 07.02.2021, 10:48
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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That simply is not what a reunification permit is for. Check the link and translate it in deepl.
Not alone that, but as a citizen of a third country the sanctions imposed for a failure to comply with the rules can impact ones ability to access the Schengen Area.
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Old 07.02.2021, 11:08
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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Somewhat expanded from the link roegner posted:

A permit expires by the following actions of yours, or of the Swiss government:
  • if you deregister, to move abroad
  • if a permit is issued in another canton
  • when the permit's validity expires
  • if you are expelled from Switzerland.


In addition to those reasons, your permit will automatically expire if you leave Switzerland without deregistering, as follows:
  • If you have a short-term residence permit (B or anything less than B):
    as soon as you spend three months outside of Switzerland.

  • If you have a residence and settlement permit (C):
    as soon as you spend six months outside of Switzerland.

    If you intend to spend longer than 6 months outside of Switzerland, you can apply for an exception to be made, and to have your settlement permit (C) maintained for a maximum of four years. To obtain this exception, you must apply for this permission before you leave Switzerland. It is granted only for special purposes, for example if you are leaving Switzerland because your company is sending you to work abroad, or if you are going away to studay. If your application is successful, your permit is then frozen for as long as that specific purpose lases and will recommence once you return to Switzerland.

The purpose of me moving to Zurich is so that my partner, whose job is based there, and I can reunite. Even if I work in the UK, it would be for one week per month, and I would consider the centre of my life to be Switzerland because it would be where I would spend the most time; in addition, I have no family in the UK whilst my partner and his side of the family are all in Switzerland. Going to the UK a week per month would just be a means of not being unemployed, whilst being able to live with my partner and improve my grasp of German in the meantime in order to find a Swiss based job in the hopefully near future.

Thanks for the link, I've had a look.

I suppose this part would apply to my situation:
"If you leave Switzerland without deregistering, the following expires:
- a short-term residence permit after three months,"

Would anyone please be able to tell me if this after three continuous months, or three months in total per year?

Cheers
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Old 07.02.2021, 11:51
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

What is legally possible is one thing. As MF said, a family reunification permit is to be together in Switzerland.

Nasty neighbours might notice that you are always gone for a week or more every month and your tax office will notice that you have income from work abroad. So make sure that you are very sure you are ok to do this.
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Old 07.02.2021, 15:54
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

Yes, I had to submit a copy of my passport every year. My spouse and I also had to sign a paper every year that we were still married, still living together, and had no plans to separate or divorce.

I encourage you to reconsider the idea of "living" in Switzerland and working in the UK as you have mentioned. Or at least don't use that as your default position. Keep it as a last-resort back up plan.

One of the best ways to learn the language is to actually be here and live daily life. Go out and use your German and learn from the mistakes you make. Take an intensive course. If you're only here for visits, you will have a much harder time with the language, with integration, and with finding a job. It is not impossible for English-only speakers to find jobs. Employers wouldn't need to do any special hiring procedures since you're the spouse of a Swiss citizen, so that gives you a leg up on other non-EUs that might want to move here.

I'm not sure how the UK rules would work if you move your residency to Switzerland. Don't you need a visa to live and work in the UK even though you're a Commonwealth citizen? How do you square the circle of having a visa stamped in your passport for living/working in the UK while claiming to live here with your spouse?

As Roegner says, there are also tax issues to consider.

Weigh your options carefully. What is your work background that makes you so sure you can't find a job here?
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Old 07.02.2021, 16:20
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

If you feel it's language that would hold you back from finding a job then consider not working at all for a while and doing an intensive German course. That plus being around German speakers all day, every day should help you learn enough quickly to be able to job hunt here.
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Old 07.02.2021, 21:34
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

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Yes, I had to submit a copy of my passport every year. My spouse and I also had to sign a paper every year that we were still married, still living together, and had no plans to separate or divorce.

I encourage you to reconsider the idea of "living" in Switzerland and working in the UK as you have mentioned. Or at least don't use that as your default position. Keep it as a last-resort back up plan.

One of the best ways to learn the language is to actually be here and live daily life. Go out and use your German and learn from the mistakes you make. Take an intensive course. If you're only here for visits, you will have a much harder time with the language, with integration, and with finding a job. It is not impossible for English-only speakers to find jobs. Employers wouldn't need to do any special hiring procedures since you're the spouse of a Swiss citizen, so that gives you a leg up on other non-EUs that might want to move here.

I'm not sure how the UK rules would work if you move your residency to Switzerland. Don't you need a visa to live and work in the UK even though you're a Commonwealth citizen? How do you square the circle of having a visa stamped in your passport for living/working in the UK while claiming to live here with your spouse?

As Roegner says, there are also tax issues to consider.

Weigh your options carefully. What is your work background that makes you so sure you can't find a job here?
Cheers all. If I were to remain working in the UK, it would be as the spouse of someone with Settled Status in the UK since he has that status on the basis of having lived in the Uk until he moved back to Switzerland a few months ago. I am a fully qualified intensive care physician so would have extra hoops in the form of having to pass the German exams to a higher standard (C1 or C2 I believe), in addition to medical licensing which usually takes a while... and on top of that to practice in my specialty in Switzerland I would probably have to re-train! By then, he will probably have to move again for his work to another part of Europe (which could be in the EU or back in the UK)! All in all... a massive headache and logistical/planning nightmare

And yes, I have read the medical specialty thread by Drremobond007 - very very insightful and generous for him to have mapped this out in so much detail for the benefit of others!
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Old 07.02.2021, 21:54
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Re: Swiss spouse B permit renewal

Switzerland can’t stop you working abroad... and if it’s one week a month it’s clear you’re “living” in Switzerland. You’d need to make sure the NHS pay you without deductions and you pay all that in Switzerland though.
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