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  #21  
Old 08.01.2016, 18:15
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

Hi there,

Well blimey that could be me writing, how amazing.

So, I'm also in Fribourg, also married to a Swiss citizen, also with Swiss children, also a housewife, not very interested in politics, not in any clubs and also in the process of applying for Swiss citizenship!!

Two main differences: I was born here so speak fluent french, no worries there, but mainly: I did not get a letter stating what I should know . I got a phone call where I was asked to bring a few documents and we sorted a date and time out. That's it. So I'm panicking a bit too now, and can't actually really help you as my meeting is next week! That said, I can update next week to put your mind at rest hopefully, or make you panick even more .

Anyway, I had to post, I felt a bit like I was reading myself!
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Old 08.01.2016, 18:34
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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Hi there,

Well blimey that could be me writing, how amazing.

So, I'm also in Fribourg, also married to a Swiss citizen, also with Swiss children, also a housewife, not very interested in politics, not in any clubs and also in the process of applying for Swiss citizenship!!

Two main differences: I was born here so speak fluent french, no worries there, but mainly: I did not get a letter stating what I should know . I got a phone call where I was asked to bring a few documents and we sorted a date and time out. That's it. So I'm panicking a bit too now, and can't actually really help you as my meeting is next week! That said, I can update next week to put your mind at rest hopefully, or make you panick even more .

Anyway, I had to post, I felt a bit like I was reading myself!
yes, please do update me!

makes me a bit worried as to why i received such a letter. perhaps that main difference of you being born in switzerland is the reason why you're not required to know about the swiss political system. let me tell you right now, i know SQUAT and i'm sitting here making flashcards and studying as if i was back in high school.

anyway, back to studying for me! please do keep me posted!
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Old 08.01.2016, 18:45
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

The Swiss political system is almost the same as the US one, the only real difference is the executive, i.e. the US has a president who appoints the cabinet, in CH the seven members of the cabinet are all elected, and take turns being president.

A canton is like a US state, with two senate members, except for the 6 half-cantons who only have one each. The Swiss house of representatives is proportinal to the population, like the US. Unlike the US, however, they are not voted for by district, but cantonally, i.e. all could be from the same town.

Tom
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Old 08.01.2016, 19:08
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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yes, please do update me!

makes me a bit worried as to why i received such a letter. perhaps that main difference of you being born in switzerland is the reason why you're not required to know about the swiss political system. let me tell you right now, i know SQUAT and i'm sitting here making flashcards and studying as if i was back in high school.

anyway, back to studying for me! please do keep me posted!
I don't know, what complicates matters for me is that I left CH for a few years and have now been back for 18 months, 12 when I applied for citizenship. I doubt I am not required to know about the political system, I think I've just not been told about it. Unfortunately I was not expecting the phone call I got and was surprised I had to attend an interview so my reaction to this was: Oh I didn't know I had to attend an interview... not a good start!!! She then told me: well yes, you have to prove your integration (.....) to what I answered: well I was born here!!! Really not a good start . Oh well, I'll do a bit of studying too!

Thanks Tom, but I know as little about US politics as I do Swiss, or UK for that matter. Except that I am more left wing!
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Old 08.01.2016, 19:46
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The Swiss political system is almost the same as the US one, the only real difference is the executive, i.e. the US has a president who appoints the cabinet, in CH the seven members of the cabinet are all elected, and take turns being president.

A canton is like a US state, with two senate members, except for the 6 half-cantons who only have one each. The Swiss house of representatives is proportinal to the population, like the US. Unlike the US, however, they are not voted for by district, but cantonally, i.e. all could be from the same town.

Tom
luckily i have a decent understanding of the american political system so i quickly noticed the similarities and that helped me quite a bit in getting my head wrapped around the swiss political system. now, to translate all that in german, that's going to take some time and i'm going to have to do a lot of memorizing.

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I don't know, what complicates matters for me is that I left CH for a few years and have now been back for 18 months, 12 when I applied for citizenship. I doubt I am not required to know about the political system, I think I've just not been told about it. Unfortunately I was not expecting the phone call I got and was surprised I had to attend an interview so my reaction to this was: Oh I didn't know I had to attend an interview... not a good start!!! She then told me: well yes, you have to prove your integration (.....) to what I answered: well I was born here!!! Really not a good start . Oh well, I'll do a bit of studying too!

Thanks Tom, but I know as little about US politics as I do Swiss, or UK for that matter. Except that I am more left wing!
i think it's probably best to get a gist of the system and touch on a little bit of everything. at least, that is my approach. i'm trying to learn the basics and be comfortable enough with it so that if i am asked, i can spit out some sort of intelligent answer in german. lol!! maybe it's just an assumption but maybe i got the letter because i only speak german (but i do understand un petit peu french) and there was no one at the FR office who could call me to speak in german? i've been to the FR office before to submit paperwork and the student (lehrling) that accepted my paperwork hardly spoke any german. i also called not too long ago to follow up on my paperwork and they asked me to call back on a different day when someone who could speak german was in. all assumptions...i really don't know. the swiss have an interesting way of doing things.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 08.01.2016 at 22:06. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 08.01.2016, 20:34
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/citizens...pill-/41295932

this is a very interesting read by the way!!!
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Old 08.01.2016, 20:47
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/citizens...pill-/41295932

this is a very interesting read by the way!!!
Interesting indeed, thanks for that. Pretty sure Grabrielle is from Fribourg, it seems to be the worse place from what I've been reading, oh joy. Maybe I'll try and argue that living in a democracy should give me the right to be interested in what I want
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Old 08.01.2016, 22:14
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

Have a look at this, it's quite interesting, explains what happens in FR. Used to be we would have gone to the police, but now it's SECIN, after this study. Also lots of examples of questions...

http://www.fr.ch/imr/de/pub/kmr/publ...buergerung.htm
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  #29  
Old 09.01.2016, 00:32
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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as far as being clear in my mind why i want to be swiss...i can't really say anymore than i plan on living here for the rest of my life. my husband is swiss, my son is swiss and i hate to put it this way but in all honesty, why shouldn't i also be swiss? it's kind of obvious and if given this possibility to others, wouldn't they all take advantage of it? i mean, given my circumstances, who wouldn't become a swiss citizen, right? or is that too bold of a comment and do i sound like it's something that is owed to me? i don't feel as if i "have" to get my citizenship but it's more like a "why not?" sort of thing. i feel as if i belong in this country and switzerland is where i consider home.
I understand your point and I will try to play devil's advocate: you could do all the things you mentioned with your US passport & C-permit. What will the swiss passport change or enable? If it's only a "me-too" it may or may not convince the interviewer.

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as far as gaining rights, i figure those are just bonuses. right to vote...yay! but honestly, i am in no position to vote even if i were allowed to tomorrow. i have a very limited understanding of what is going on in current swiss politics. this is my own fault to be honest as politics don't really interest me. i sound ignorant but i'm being honest.
Ok take the following example: in your nice little town or village, the Commune proposes to open a shelter for refugees and asks the local population to vote. I'm pretty sure you would have an opinion on that and would be happy to vote (it could be also a vote on your son's school, or other topics relevant to you and your family). Politics is not necessarily on federal level it can be on cantonal and communal level (the last one has more direct impact on your life).
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  #30  
Old 09.01.2016, 14:29
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

I cannot comment authoritatively on spousal facilitated naturalisation, and anyway my spouse (an EU citizen) isn't eligible: http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/467236...ja-suisse.html
(my mother's family is traceable for hundreds of years, and remained in close contact as long as they lived, but former Swiss law against dual nationality disentitled the foreign branch until, in the 1980s, my Mum was motivated by articles in the Swiss press to take advantage of liberalisation of the law in response to gender equality principles)

A son and daughter of mine who were not already Swiss because born earlier recently were naturalised, along with their children. Language was not an issue as all had gone through the French school system. The daughter was given a written test in history and culture by the consul in London: 12 questions, apparently easy enough since she was scored "high". (She had self-assessed her knowledge as "medium" but the consul laughed and said even she didn't know most of the stuff in the guidance notes.)

The son was "examined" in San Francisco. As the consular officer asked his first question (the exam is oral there) he was called away by his boss. That was the end of the interview: Pass, with no questions at all.

(I am left thinking that the testing is happenstance. But also similar to what I went through in graduate school in Belgium: the final exam consists of a 10-minute oral interview with your professor, during which time you have to convince him/her that you mastered the subject, and are graded from 0 to 20. (You get 0.5 just for showing up: when I asked why any student would bother present him/herself when s/he had learned nothing I was told it has something to do with entitlement to student grants.))

My own experience, many years ago in New York, was that the consul was reluctant to test me in anything, least of all in French. I had handed him a copy of my doctoral diploma, and even though it was the wrong country that apparently was enough.

Our experience holds perhaps no great predictive lesson for the OP other than to say that luck has something to do with it, and I do suspect that the study suggestions may be the same ones given to applicants for ordinary naturalisation, and hence perhaps not totally relevant. But as I said, what do I know.
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  #31  
Old 11.01.2016, 10:34
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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I understand your point and I will try to play devil's advocate: you could do all the things you mentioned with your US passport & C-permit. What will the swiss passport change or enable? If it's only a "me-too" it may or may not convince the interviewer.



Ok take the following example: in your nice little town or village, the Commune proposes to open a shelter for refugees and asks the local population to vote. I'm pretty sure you would have an opinion on that and would be happy to vote (it could be also a vote on your son's school, or other topics relevant to you and your family). Politics is not necessarily on federal level it can be on cantonal and communal level (the last one has more direct impact on your life).
yes, you are absolutely correct. i do realize that my argument of "me-too" is probably something to my advnatage only hence why i was saying that i don't mean to come across as if i was entitled to swiss citizenship. i do realize that with swiss citizenship comes certain duties and i respect that.

i also realize that they CAN deny me citizenship and i would also respect that decision and most likely do my part in becoming more active rather than just a "me-too" citizenship applicant.

my main concern in only holding a US-passport and C-permit is that let's say that one day, my husband and i may choose to retire in the united states. i could lose my C-permit if i leave CH for an extended amount of time. this is a substantial argument for me to apply for my swiss citizenship, is it not? now, we are not planning on retiring in the US at the moment or permanently living there ever but you never know.
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Old 22.01.2016, 19:06
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

so...just to update, i had my interview today. i have mixed feelings about how it went as i was extremely nervous. eeek! here's how the questioning went:

1. i was asked about when i first arrived in CH which i honestly had forgotten exactly when this was. sometime in late 2007 or 2008??
2. i was asked about how i met my husband, when our relationship started, how long i lived in the US while he lived here, etc. again, lots of focus on dates which i couldn't be exact other than the year and approximate month.
3. i was asked about my background, education, my family, if i work, if i'm a member of any swiss organizations.
4. i was asked if i was a prostitute or if i practice prostitution. hahaha! funny one.
5. i was asked why i wanted to be swiss which i just answered because my husband & son are also swiss and it makes sense. i feel at home in switzerland and i see my future here.
6. i was then asked about sites in fribourg, what basel is known for, places around geneva (i drew a complete blank on the geneva part...i was really nervous!)
7. i was asked to name 2 famous swiss men, 2 famous swiss women, all the federal council members, the nationalrat members from fribourg, 2 SP politicians, 2 CVP politicians.
8. i was asked about some swiss architect which i honestly forgot the name and didn't even know who it was so that was...0 points there.
9. i was asked extremely detailed questions about income, taxes, debts. my husband takes care of all of that and i honestly know nothing (again, i'm your ideal housewife that knows nothing about finances). anyway, we have no taxes or debts in arrears so we were clear there.
10. i was asked about rütlischwur, where that happened, what happened, who were the 3 original cantons involved...

it was overall a very long 90 minute interview with some cheery small talk about my son in between. if i had to score myself, i'd say i did about 70/100...the stuff about exact dates and income/taxes/debts kind of blew it for me but whatcha gonna do?

hope this helps anyone else out there in a similar situation! no easy feat, that's for sure!
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  #33  
Old 23.01.2016, 17:16
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

Wow. Facilitated naturalization in Fribourg is harder than regular naturalization in Geneva.
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Old 23.01.2016, 20:26
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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I cannot comment authoritatively on spousal facilitated naturalisation, and anyway my spouse (an EU citizen) isn't eligible: http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/467236...ja-suisse.html
(my mother's family is traceable for hundreds of years, and remained in close contact as long as they lived, but former Swiss law against dual nationality disentitled the foreign branch until, in the 1980s, my Mum was motivated by articles in the Swiss press to take advantage of liberalisation of the law in response to gender equality principles)
I don't want to take this thread off on a tangent, but I did want to mention that I think Caryl is mistaken about the ineligibility for facilitated naturalization of the spouses of Swiss citizens who themselves obtained Swiss nationality *through facilitated naturalization* after their marriage. The general requirement that an individual must have held Swiss citizenship at the time of his/her marriage in order for his/her spouse to be eligible for facilitated naturalization (referred to in the article to which Caryl provided a link) applies when the Swiss spouse obtained his/her citizenship through *regular* naturalization after the marriage.

If the Swiss spouse obtained citizenship after marriage through *facilitated* naturalization or through the restoration of Swiss citizenship that had previously been lost, not only is his/her non-Swiss spouse eligible to seek facilitated naturalization under art. 27 (if living in Switzerland) or art. 28 (if living outside) of the current citizenship law, but also the moment at which they can apply is after they have married to the Swiss spouse for the length of time specified in those articles (3 years or 6 years, respectively), regardless of whether or not the Swiss spouse actually held Swiss citizenship over the entirety of the period concerned.

This is specified in section 2.4.2.2.5(a) of the Swiss government's administrative manual on citizenship, available here: https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/it/home...rgerrecht.html

This provision is also made explicit in the text of the new (2014) citizenship law (not yet in force). Art. 21(3) of the new law states that the spouses of Swiss citizens who obtain Swiss nationality after marriage through "reintegration" (restoration of previously held citizenship) or "facilitated naturalization based on descent from a Swiss parent" are eligible themselves to apply for facilitated naturalization (for the full text, see the "Parliamentary Decree" link on this page: https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi...0/history.html).

This appears to mean that the current policy will essentially remain unchanged when the new law goes into force (on an as yet unspecified date, probably late this year or early next year), BUT there might be a change for the worse for a small group of Swiss citizens and their spouses: A literal reading of Art. 21(3)(b) of the new law -- with its reference to "facilitated naturalization based on descent from a Swiss *parent*" -- would appear to exclude the spouses of Swiss nationals who obtained their citizenship through facilitated naturalization on the basis of descent from a Swiss *grandmother*, something that is currently possible under Art. 58a of the 1952 citizenship law (but that won't be possible under the new law), so anyone in that category might want to apply now!

Apologies for the digression, but I hope this is useful to some of you ...
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  #35  
Old 23.01.2016, 21:03
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

s268952 sounds very much like the interview my OH had in Neuchâtel. We applied through my Commune d'origine- but they have a reciprocal arrangement with Neuchâtel to avoid un-necessary travel. He was never asked if he was a prostitute though . Some of the questions he didn't know, but was able to smile and deflect with 'ah that's interesting- I have no idea but I can tell you about...' kind of fluff that worked well.
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Old 23.01.2016, 21:07
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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so...just to update, i had my interview today. i have mixed feelings about how it went as i was extremely nervous. eeek! here's how the questioning went:

1. i was asked about when i first arrived in CH which i honestly had forgotten exactly when this was. sometime in late 2007 or 2008??
2. i was asked about how i met my husband, when our relationship started, how long i lived in the US while he lived here, etc. again, lots of focus on dates which i couldn't be exact other than the year and approximate month.
3. i was asked about my background, education, my family, if i work, if i'm a member of any swiss organizations.
4. i was asked if i was a prostitute or if i practice prostitution. hahaha! funny one.
5. i was asked why i wanted to be swiss which i just answered because my husband & son are also swiss and it makes sense. i feel at home in switzerland and i see my future here.
6. i was then asked about sites in fribourg, what basel is known for, places around geneva (i drew a complete blank on the geneva part...i was really nervous!)
7. i was asked to name 2 famous swiss men, 2 famous swiss women, all the federal council members, the nationalrat members from fribourg, 2 SP politicians, 2 CVP politicians.
8. i was asked about some swiss architect which i honestly forgot the name and didn't even know who it was so that was...0 points there.
9. i was asked extremely detailed questions about income, taxes, debts. my husband takes care of all of that and i honestly know nothing (again, i'm your ideal housewife that knows nothing about finances). anyway, we have no taxes or debts in arrears so we were clear there.
10. i was asked about rütlischwur, where that happened, what happened, who were the 3 original cantons involved...

it was overall a very long 90 minute interview with some cheery small talk about my son in between. if i had to score myself, i'd say i did about 70/100...the stuff about exact dates and income/taxes/debts kind of blew it for me but whatcha gonna do?

hope this helps anyone else out there in a similar situation! no easy feat, that's for sure!
Was this done completely in German!?
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Old 23.01.2016, 21:22
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

For my OH totally in French- Humour is massively useful- if you can say things like 'that is indeed the 100 million question, and to be honest I haven't got a clue but I know about ...' and that kind of retort- it is hugely useful.

When asked what course he has done for French and what certificates he has- he just smiled and said 'none, but that's OK isn't it- just judge for yourself' - with his very British accent and a few mistakes along the way- but showing clearly he can communicate well.
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Old 25.01.2016, 10:45
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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Was this done completely in German!?
yes, the interview was all in German. she gave me the option to answer in English but I said "no no. that's ok. I'll find the words." (in German, of course)
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Old 25.01.2016, 10:50
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Re: simplified naturalisation - erste unterredung

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yes, the interview was all in German. she gave me the option to answer in English but I said "no no. that's ok. I'll find the words." (in German, of course)
well done....given the short notice for the interview and lack of time to prepare.
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Old 25.01.2016, 11:21
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well done....given the short notice for the interview and lack of time to prepare.
thank you! although to be honest, i do not feel i did very well. i memorized the entire swiss political system...that was the easy part. everything from bundesrat/nationalrat/kantonsrat/gemeinderat/oberamtmänner...i can draw you a flow chart of it all. who is under who, their political parties, etc etc etc. but the questions about myself, dates, questions about my background, i stumbled horribly simply because i was nervous and was at a loss for vocabulary! i should've prepped myself for how intrusive they would be! i answered as best as i could but when they asked about things that had to do with taxes or income, i basically just said (auf deutsch), "you know, my husband takes care of all that. i take care of my son, the household, i'm really a hausfrau!" and the interviewer would reply with "if you don't know which document i am talking about, most likely, you haven't received one. that's a good thing." so i just left it at that.

i am also more familiar with bern rather than fribourg so i had no idea what the gotteron was! i'd never been there. apparently it is the football team and as well as some sort of major tourist site. ack!!!

they also asked about things to see in gruyere which luckily, i've been to the cailler chocolate factory about 100x and also to the altstadt to have a fondue. they also asked about things to see in luzern which i replied with the Löwendenkmal and the big Carl F. Bucherer store (the largest rolex retailr in CH with over 6 floors). again, not the best answers for someone that is well-integrated but maybe they were good enough?

anyway, i guess now i just wait. 4-6 months!!
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