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Old 12.05.2016, 13:21
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Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Hi everyone,

This is my very first post though I've been reading loads of posts here for past months. There are few posts regarding non-EU with EU partner (unmarried) or similar situations however I am still quite confused so I hope I can have some answers here for my case.

ok below are some background info:

1. I am Non-EU and have a partner (unmarried) who is an EU national. We have been in the relationship and lived in the UK together since 2011.

2. In 2013 I obtained a residence permit issued in the UK as a family member of an EEA national – unmarried partner(EEA2).

3. We decided to travel around Asia in mid 2015 and now we are in my home country for a short break before going back to Europe.

4. We are planning to move to Zurich together to live and work.

I know as an non-EU, although I have a UK residence permit, I need to have a permit to live and work in CH, now the question is which one and how.

after research we believe there are few possibilities (apart from getting married):
1. Dependent permit - I got really confused between this and Family Reunification, are they the same?

2. Family Reunification as an unmarried partner - I saw somewhere (sorry couldn't remember where as I've been gathering info from everywhere) that it is possible to obtain a permit via this route, but we have to meet certain criteria. Does anyone know what the criteria are? I contacted Cantonal office of Zurich they simply told me we may not to do this. Still waiting answers from the Swiss consulate here.

3. Concubine/ Konkubinatspaare - I couldn't find any info regarding this from Cantonal office of Zurich (I have to say it's not a really user-friendly website... at least for me), I saw a few posts about applying in Vaud, does anyone know about the situation in Zurich? Is it possible/what are the requirements?

I reckon that my partner will need to get a job and his permit first then apply for whichever we can? Which one will we have the highest likelihood of getting it?

Also we want to go to Zurich together, rather than me sitting back in my home country waiting. Can I get in as a visitor (I can stay up to 90 days without applying visa), then apply for whatever is possible for us to apply? I read in some posts that I may be able to apply for permit D so I can stay longer and then sort things out in Switzerland? If I have to apply for permit outside of Switzerland, do I must apply it from my home country? Or can I go to other EU country to do it?

Sorry for this rather long post...I just want to make sure I detailed all my questions in one post instead of 10.

Thank you in advance!
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Old 12.05.2016, 13:53
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Quote:
1. I am Non-EU and have a partner (unmarried) who is an EU national. We have been in the relationship and lived in the UK together since 2011.
How long have you actually lived together for, and do you have documentation that would prove this?

I'm asking because I'm in the same situation but we're both EU passport holders. I'm lucky that we still have the rental agreements of the last three places we've lived at that have both our names as tenants, and that our work C.V.'s prove that we met at work. I don't know how much of this will be required when my current permit is renewed, but it's good to have such documents to hand. Because I'm a bit of a travel geek, I also have all the boarding passes from trips we've made together going back five years.


Quote:
2. In 2013 I obtained a residence permit issued in the UK as a family member of an EEA national – unmarried partner(EEA2).
What is your nationality please?


Quote:
4. We are planning to move to Zurich together to live and work.
I would strongly advise that you don't come to Zurich unless one, or both of you have a job here secured beforehand.

You need to prove to Migrationsamt that you have sufficient funds to support yourself before you can be granted any type or permit that would allow you to stay and search for work, and therefore, be able to secure somewhere half decent to live.
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Old 12.05.2016, 14:20
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Welcome to the forum.

As you are unmarried then only the concubine permit would be possible.

First I'll try and help you be a bit less confused.

1. Dependent permit is just another name for any permit which is obtained via the main permit holder, be it through family reunification (if married) or concubine (unmarried). So your permit will be a dependent one, meaning that if your partner splits up with you or decides to move to another country you would either have to look for a job yourself (with all the non-EU hiring criteria hassle that brings) or move with them. Your permit will not be independent of theirs. Dependent permits apply to spouses/partners, children and in the case of EU/EFTA nationals can also apply to parents and grandparents if they move here and are dependent on the main permit holder to support them.

2. Family reunification doesn't apply as this is only for married couples/registered same-sex partnerships.

3. Concubine permit - the only one possible in your situation unless you get married or get your own independent permit, but that would be difficult depending on your qualifications/experience as far as non-EU hiring goes. Only a few cantons such as Geneva, Vaud, Zurich and Aargau I believe allow this type of permit. I don't know what Zurich's requirements are, but I assume they'll be similar to Vaud's which are in this link:

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/

For this permit your partner will need to agree to be financially responsible for you for 5 years and probably will need to show either a work contract or sufficient savings that they can support you both for a few months while they job hunt plus evidence that the partnership is a long term, committed relationship and not just a ploy to get you into the country and obtain a permit. So it may be best for you to wait in your home country until your partner has a job and makes the application for the concubine permit on your behalf.

4. Type D visa - this is not a permit, but a visa which allows non-EU nationals to enter Switzerland long term legally, i.e. for more than 90 days. You would need one of these as you plan to live here. Yes you could risk coming here as a tourist, but a) your time may run out before the permit application is approved and b) Zurich are usually quite strict on people having the D visa when they arrive and not applying for it once they're here. They've been known to insist that you either go back to your home country to apply for the visa or at least go to another country and apply from there. Given that Switzerland is part of the Schengen Area if you come as a tourist and need to leave this would mean you'd have to go somewhere like the UK, Ireland, Belarus or the Ukraine as the nearest possible places to apply and wait for the visa. The visa would not be issued by the Swiss embassy/consulate in whichever country until the permit has been approved. Nor would you be able to return to Schegen for at least 90 days under the 90 days in, 90 days out rule. So you could find yourself not being able to be with your partner for 3 months if they can't manage to travel to visit you wherever you are.

Below is a link regarding co-habiting for unmarried couples which may be informative.

https://www.ch.ch/en/cohabiting/

The non-EU hiring criteria is outlined here:

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

If you have a dependent's permit via an EU national then this is bypassed as your permit will effectively be an EU one allowing you to simply show your employment contract to the cantonal migration office to activate the work part of your permit. As said the downside is if the relationship breaks down, then any current employer would then have to go through the non-EU hiring process to get a new permit for you.
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Old 12.05.2016, 16:51
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

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How long have you actually lived together for, and do you have documentation that would prove this?

I'm asking because I'm in the same situation but we're both EU passport holders. I'm lucky that we still have the rental agreements of the last three places we've lived at that have both our names as tenants, and that our work C.V.'s prove that we met at work. I don't know how much of this will be required when my current permit is renewed, but it's good to have such documents to hand. Because I'm a bit of a travel geek, I also have all the boarding passes from trips we've made together going back five years.


What is your nationality please?


I would strongly advise that you don't come to Zurich unless one, or both of you have a job here secured beforehand.

You need to prove to Migrationsamt that you have sufficient funds to support yourself before you can be granted any type or permit that would allow you to stay and search for work, and therefore, be able to secure somewhere half decent to live.
Hi Blueangel, firstly thank you for your reply. I don't think proving our relationship would be an issue, I still have all our council tax bill (which under both of our names) and a joint UK bank account statement (but it's closed now) and we both have many other documents sent to the same address. I have pictures with his parents and he also visited my family.

Finding a job shouldn't be a problem for my partner due to his work experience and expertise and we both still have some savings, however it would be good to know that how much is "sufficient".
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Old 12.05.2016, 17:02
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

General rule to work to is CHF100 per day per person, though you may be able to drop that down to 50-75 for the second person so say at least 4,500 per month for at least 3 months - the time your partner is allowed to be here at a job seeker without registering. But it really depends on the cantonal authorities. Obviously places like Zurich, Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Basel are going to be more expensive so may have a higher figure than that. Check with the cantonal migration office for what figure they would be looking for.

If your partner doesn't find a job within 3 months they can ask for an L permit for another 3 months providing they have sufficient funds.
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Old 12.05.2016, 17:23
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

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Welcome to the forum.

As you are unmarried then only the concubine permit would be possible.

First I'll try and help you be a bit less confused.

3. Concubine permit - the only one possible in your situation unless you get married or get your own independent permit, but that would be difficult depending on your qualifications/experience as far as non-EU hiring goes. Only a few cantons such as Geneva, Vaud, Zurich and Aargau I believe allow this type of permit. I don't know what Zurich's requirements are, but I assume they'll be similar to Vaud's which are in this link:

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/

For this permit your partner will need to agree to be financially responsible for you for 5 years and probably will need to show either a work contract or sufficient savings that they can support you both for a few months while they job hunt plus evidence that the partnership is a long term, committed relationship and not just a ploy to get you into the country and obtain a permit. So it may be best for you to wait in your home country until your partner has a job and makes the application for the concubine permit on your behalf.

4. Type D visa - this is not a permit, but a visa which allows non-EU nationals to enter Switzerland long term legally, i.e. for more than 90 days. You would need one of these as you plan to live here. Yes you could risk coming here as a tourist, but a) your time may run out before the permit application is approved and b) Zurich are usually quite strict on people having the D visa when they arrive and not applying for it once they're here. They've been known to insist that you either go back to your home country to apply for the visa or at least go to another country and apply from there. Given that Switzerland is part of the Schengen Area if you come as a tourist and need to leave this would mean you'd have to go somewhere like the UK, Ireland, Belarus or the Ukraine as the nearest possible places to apply and wait for the visa. The visa would not be issued by the Swiss embassy/consulate in whichever country until the permit has been approved. Nor would you be able to return to Schegen for at least 90 days under the 90 days in, 90 days out rule. So you could find yourself not being able to be with your partner for 3 months if they can't manage to travel to visit you wherever you are.

Below is a link regarding co-habiting for unmarried couples which may be informative.

https://www.ch.ch/en/cohabiting/

The non-EU hiring criteria is outlined here:

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

If you have a dependent's permit via an EU national then this is bypassed as your permit will effectively be an EU one allowing you to simply show your employment contract to the cantonal migration office to activate the work part of your permit. As said the downside is if the relationship breaks down, then any current employer would then have to go through the non-EU hiring process to get a new permit for you.
Thank you Medea Fleecestealer, you are like Wikipedia of Swiss immigration rules! It has become much clearer for me now .

Regarding the concubine permit, I still have a few questions:
1. I think my partner will need to get a job and his own permit before being able to apply for concubine permit? As part of the requirement is residence permit of the partner in Switzerland.

2. And most likely we will need to have our own place, which from my understanding is only possible to rent a place if you have a job? We are planning to crash on his sister's couch for a while. Will that be a solution?

3. If we get this permit, Do I must apply for a type D visa? Or I can show my permit approval document when entering the country then get my actual permit in the cantonal office? Do I have to have A permit with A visa?

4. I know about this "90 days in and 90 days out" rule, from what you say it is still applied even if I have type D visa? i.e. I will need to wait 90 days to re-entre Switzerland with my type D visa if I already spent 90 days there?

Thank you for your help!
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Old 12.05.2016, 17:49
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Quite apart from the problem of getting two residence permits, why are you planning to come here?

It is very expensive compared to all the EU countries, and you don't even have a job offer. The people are difficult to get along with, and most of us live in the flatter part. You might as well go and live in Slough or Luton, you will probably find more joy there.

I always say that everyone comes here for love or money, nobody comes for the mountains or the chocolate.

Go somewhere else, you will surely be happier there.
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Old 12.05.2016, 17:55
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

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nobody comes for the mountains
I did.

Tom
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Old 12.05.2016, 18:24
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

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Thank you Medea Fleecestealer, you are like Wikipedia of Swiss immigration rules! It has become much clearer for me now .

Regarding the concubine permit, I still have a few questions:
1. I think my partner will need to get a job and his own permit before being able to apply for concubine permit? As part of the requirement is residence permit of the partner in Switzerland.

2. And most likely we will need to have our own place, which from my understanding is only possible to rent a place if you have a job? We are planning to crash on his sister's couch for a while. Will that be a solution?

3. If we get this permit, Do I must apply for a type D visa? Or I can show my permit approval document when entering the country then get my actual permit in the cantonal office? Do I have to have A permit with A visa?

4. I know about this "90 days in and 90 days out" rule, from what you say it is still applied even if I have type D visa? i.e. I will need to wait 90 days to re-entre Switzerland with my type D visa if I already spent 90 days there?

Thank you for your help!
1. Yes, that's the way it's supposed to work. Not necessarily the job, but you getting a permit will depend on them getting theirs. There are two options - they come here as a job seeker and have 3 months without having to register as being resident here while they look for a job. Alternatively, they register immediately if they can and providing they can meet the conditions could also apply for a permit for you.

The problem with the first is that yes, you could come as a tourist for those 3 months, but then you'd have to leave again while they then register and make the application while you're back in your home country applying for the Type D visa.

2. You can rent a place without having a permit, though landlords/agencies will probably prefer candidates who have one. It's really going to depend on where you look and how much competition there is for accommodation in that area. You could perhaps look at renting a room for while via www.wgzimmer.ch or airBnB perhaps.

As far as crashing on the sister's couch, first she needs to check with her landlord/agency that it's okay for you to stay there for more than a few weeks. I would get her to check with her town's admin office whether her address would be acceptable. Usually you need to present some kind of rental contract when applying for a permit. The other problem is that the Swiss can be strict on what is suitable accommodation up to Swiss standards. Usually it's the number of people less 1 for the number of bedrooms - so say 3 people (you, partner and sister) would need 2 bedrooms at least. So if she's living in a studio or one-bed place it may not be acceptable to either the landlord or the Swiss authorities to have you staying there.

3. As I said, if your partner comes first and applies for a concubine permit for you, then you need to apply at the nearest Swiss embassy/consulate in your home country for a Type D visa. This visa will not be issued to you unless the permit is approved. All the visa does is let you enter Switzerland for more than 90 days. Once you're here you then go to the cantonal migration office to start the process of getting your pre-approved permit issued to you - it will take several weeks before you physically get it. Once you have your permit the visa is then invalid as the permit replaces it for travel purposes. So you will need to have both your passport and the permit when travelling outside of Switzerland.

4. A Type D visa would not be issued if you don't have a permit approval so you can't apply for one separately. So the only other way you can enter is as a tourist and then you're limited to the 90 days before you have to leave again.
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Old 13.05.2016, 17:10
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

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3. As I said, if your partner comes first and applies for a concubine permit for you, then you need to apply at the nearest Swiss embassy/consulate in your home country for a Type D visa. This visa will not be issued to you unless the permit is approved. All the visa does is let you enter Switzerland for more than 90 days. Once you're here you then go to the cantonal migration office to start the process of getting your pre-approved permit issued to you - it will take several weeks before you physically get it. Once you have your permit the visa is then invalid as the permit replaces it for travel purposes. So you will need to have both your passport and the permit when travelling outside of Switzerland.

4. A Type D visa would not be issued if you don't have a permit approval so you can't apply for one separately. So the only other way you can enter is as a tourist and then you're limited to the 90 days before you have to leave again.

Hi Medea Fleecestealer, thanks again for your explanation. The concept of having to apply for a permit AND a visa is rather confusing to me, as when I was in the UK, I either need a visa OR a permit to legally stay in the country.

So permit with a Type D visa is a "package"? I couldn't find anywhere in the Type D visa application saying the permit approval is one of the requirements. Just discussed this with my partner and he seems quite confused as well haha and we were debating the necessity of applying for an entry visa if I would be issued a permit (which allows me to work and live and I am is allowed to stay up to 90 days without a visa due to my nationality), simply due to the processing time is so long (7-12 weeks or even longer!). So the whole getting permit approval+ apply Type D visa may take 3 months up!


I though what I need to do is to show the immigration officer my permit approval letter when entering the country (at the airport), register at the local office and get my actual permit.

I understand the risk of having to leave if I stay 90 days but we think we can sort out the permit within this time and then I am happy to go somewhere else to re-entre CH to "activate" my intend to live and work - by the look of it it's not possible?


sorry if I am kinda repeating the same question... Just want to get a clear picture of it!

Thank you!
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Old 13.05.2016, 20:46
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

You are not coming to the UK, you are coming to Switzerland and the rules are different.

"A Type D visa is required for stays of more than 90 days. This is a national visa, issued to people who wish to stay in Switzerland legally for a prolonged period of time. Stays subject to type D visa requirements need to be authorised by the appropriate authorities in advance; they are typically issued for work or study in Switzerland, family reunification or lengthy medical treatment."

The requirement in advance in this case is to have applied for and received approval for a concubine permit. You apply for the visa at the same time as your partner applies for the permit so there's no "extra" processing time involved. Within a few days of the embassy/consulate being notified that the permit is approved, you'll be asked to either come there or send your passport to them so the visa can be stamped in it. It will have a certain period of time that it's valid for and you can travel to Switzerland any time within that period.

No, you don't show your permit approval letter at the airport, you show your passport which will have your Type D visa stamped in it. I'm not even sure you'd get the approval letter - it would be sent to the embassy/consulate and they would then notify you. Border control will know the visa's tied to a successful permit application as it will be on their computer system's records.

Once you are in Switzerland you then go to the Zurich canton's migration office and their records will show that your permit is already approved so they will start the process of getting it issued to you. It'll take a few weeks as you'll need to provide biometric info at some point in the process when they ask you to come and give it.

Do not under-estimate the time required to get your permit sorted out here if you do come with your partner. Some cantons are taking months to issue their permits and given your unmarried status that will slow things down even more.

You also do not go elsewhere and re-enter to activate your permit, it doesn't work like that. If you both come here and apply for the permit you may well run over the time and have to leave Switzerland either to return to your home country or somewhere else outside the Schengen Area. There you will have to apply for the Type D visa and you will have to wait there until the permit is approved and the visa is issued to you. Trying to bend the rules may well delay your permit application and it could take longer than if your partner comes here first and then applies on your behalf while you apply for the visa in your home country.

If that is a risk you're willing take go ahead, but don't say you weren't warned.
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Old 14.05.2016, 11:30
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Thanks Medea for all the info provided, we really appreciate your help.

I apologise if I sounded offensive, that's not my intention, as I said it's quite different compared to other countries we've lived before so my brain didn't digest the difference well. We do want to follow the correct procedure but at the same time we want to do it in the most efficient way (time and money).

Now it's about preparing those documents... I will post any updates in case other people have similar questions like mine.
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Old 14.05.2016, 12:33
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Not at all KJTW. Switzerland is very different from other places and regulations/rules can go down to the town/village/city level (gemeinde in German).

I suggest you get hold of a copy of "Living and Working in Switzerland" by David Hampshire. It's full of useful info for both before and after you move here. You can order it from your local bookshop or via the internet. And of course, there's a wealth of info in the various sticky threads here on the forum too. A few searches of the forum for specific keywords may also throw up some useful threads on the searched for subject. Or just ask, someone's bound to know the answer.
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Old 19.05.2016, 09:47
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Another question to add here! I just read another post that Medea has participated - something to do Type D visa as well.

In that thread you mentioned that the Type D visa application should be made at the same time when the work permit application is made to avoid confusion - Am I right to say it's the same process for family reunification case? i.e. I should apply for my Type D visa while my partner applies for the concubine permit?

I hope I didn't ask the same question twice or you have already mentioned it... if so I am sorry for asking again :S
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Old 19.05.2016, 11:15
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Re: Non EU with EU unmarried partner move to Zurich - Permit advice needed!

Yes, you should otherwise you may find that the Zurich cantonal migration office instructs you to leave Switzerland and apply for it either in your home country or at least another EU country, i.e. France, Germany, etc. They tend to be quite strict regarding the Type D visa and people trying to apply for it once they're here.

The form is here:

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...sumd-en-de.pdf

Take or send it to the Swiss embassy/consulate nearest to your home with the required documents and it will be matched up with the application for the concubine permit as the process goes along.
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