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Old 17.05.2016, 12:22
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90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

Hi everyone,

I'm confused. I was just on the phone with a woman from the Service de la Population in Lausanne, she said my boyfriend (US citizen) has to leave after his 90 days (of course, we knew that) but can come back to CH after ONE MONTH...

I was sure it was 90 days in 90 days (3 months) out ?? Anyone else ever heard of being able to re-enter after 1 month out ? I feel like I'm getting different information from everywhere. It seems to vary from the commune, to contrôle des habitants, to service de la population. Should I call the FOM ?

Also, if that's the case - can someone confirm he may go to the UK for those 30 days (AKA border run) ?

Thanks in advance

Emily
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Old 17.05.2016, 13:02
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

No, definitely wrong. He must leave the Schengen Area for 90 days before he can return.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...ttstaaten.html

There is a calculator here to help work out when you have to leave by and when you can return. If you can understand it. Personally I find it difficult.

Remember that the last day is when he needs to leave, i.e. leave by the 90th day and not the 91st.
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Old 17.05.2016, 13:11
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

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No, definitely wrong. He must leave the Schengen Area for 90 days before he can return.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...ttstaaten.html

There is a calculator here to help work out when you have to leave by and when you can return. If you can understand it. Personally I find it difficult.

Remember that the last day is when he needs to leave, i.e. leave by the 90th day and not the 91st.
That's what we thought, and he already has a return ticket anyway but I find it strange that she would say that. I asked her twice...
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Old 17.05.2016, 13:14
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

I can only guess a translation/communication problem. What she said wasn't what she meant, confused numbers or similar. Or she just plain doesn't know.
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Old 17.05.2016, 13:16
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

No border runs.

90 days within 180 days. Subsequently, if he's been here for 90 days, he needs to leave for 90 days and can only re-enter when a "new cycle" of 180 days starts.

Alternatively, try to get a long-term visa. No work permit obviously, but at least a bit less of a hassle.
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Old 17.05.2016, 13:29
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

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No border runs.

90 days within 180 days. Subsequently, if he's been here for 90 days, he needs to leave for 90 days and can only re-enter when a "new cycle" of 180 days starts.

Alternatively, try to get a long-term visa. No work permit obviously, but at least a bit less of a hassle.
We're looking into it as for right now we are interested in him being able to stay, we'll figure out the work permit later on. I have a great full-time position here in Vaud area that brings in enough for the two of us. I heard it's complicated to apply for any sort of visa once in Switzerland, do you have any experience with this?

We plan on getting married but not just yet and don't want to be pressured into it just for papers, although it looks like we might have to - I'm a Swiss citizen so it would make things a whole lot easier for him.
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Old 17.05.2016, 16:48
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

Other than him finding an employer to apply for a permit for him, there is also the option of you applying for a concubine permit for him. You would have to agree to be financially responsible for him for 5 years. He could work with that permit, but the downside is if your relationship breaks down a) you would still have to support him so long as he's in Switzerland without a job and b) he would lose the concubine permit and be subject to the non-EU hiring rules again so his employer would have to go through the process to be able to keep him. Vaud's info on the permit is here:

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/
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Old 17.05.2016, 20:15
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

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Other than him finding an employer to apply for a permit for him, there is also the option of you applying for a concubine permit for him. You would have to agree to be financially responsible for him for 5 years. He could work with that permit, but the downside is if your relationship breaks down a) you would still have to support him so long as he's in Switzerland without a job and b) he would lose the concubine permit and be subject to the non-EU hiring rules again so his employer would have to go through the process to be able to keep him. Vaud's info on the permit is here:

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/
That's what we're looking into. Although we never know what life has in store for us, we have a very stable relationship so I'm not too worried about the possible consequences but I'm wondering, can we apply from here ? We'd really like to avoid being separated for 3 months The concubine permit would at least give him time to look work as we know it will take time and he would also like to take some time to study French first.
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Old 17.05.2016, 20:30
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

You can try, being Swiss you might be cut some slack. But they may also insist he goes to somewhere outside the Schengen area to apply for a Type D visa or at least over to France to do it. It really depends on the migration office, each one is different and some more strict than others, and often on who deals with you on the day.
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Old 18.05.2016, 13:44
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

Ok, so I called again and they confirmed the 90 days out of CH before being able to come back.

The kind woman on the phone told we can put in the request for concubinage to the commune so that's what we're going to do but Joe's visa expires June 15th and here is how the conversation went regarding that matter:

Me: so, can he stay in CH while waiting for the decision, meaning he would overstay his 90 days ? Or does he have to go back to the US ?

woman: yes, from the moment he has a pending request, he may stay in Switzerland while waiting for the decision.

Me: ok that's great, but let's say the request is refused, and he has to take the plane back to the US, will he have any issues trying to leave CH ?

woman: he might, yeah.

Me: but you just told me it's ok if he stay in CH, so why should he have any issues once trying to leave if it came down to that ?

woman: we don't have any influence on customs (douanes) so we can't promise he won't have issues, it's a risk you chose to take or not.

-------------------------

So alright, I guess I see her point... But it just seems silly - if a cantonal authority tells you you can stay, why would you get in trouble with customs especially if you are trying to leave ?!

Joe's return ticket departs from Paris, so I'm hoping that if he has to go back to the US, he won't have any issues leaving from Charles-de-Gaulles
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Old 18.05.2016, 14:59
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

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Other than him finding an employer to apply for a permit for him, there is also the option of you applying for a concubine permit for him. You would have to agree to be financially responsible for him for 5 years. He could work with that permit, but the downside is if your relationship breaks down a) you would still have to support him so long as he's in Switzerland without a job and b) he would lose the concubine permit and be subject to the non-EU hiring rules again so his employer would have to go through the process to be able to keep him. Vaud's info on the permit is here:

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/


It has been a while since I went through this, so the laws may have changed, but there may be another option: Study. When I arrived here to see if the relationship would float I was able to register at the University as a student - this gave me a permit, insurance, and even a limited work permit for a relatively small cost. It also really helped my German. At the time tuition was less than a flight back to Canada.
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Old 18.05.2016, 15:06
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

Make sure you/he gets a copy of the application so you have it if needed. Also usually if an application is refused there is a small period given before you have to leave. It may be only a few days, it might be a couple of weeks, but there should be something. He won't have to leave "on the day" as it were. So long as he has a copy of the application and the refusal letter he shouldn't get hassled as he is allowed to stay until a decision is made.

The thing is I think you/he need to make a choice. It's unlikely that any decision is going to be made by his current leaving date - so you need to either bite the bullet: you apply now and he waits for a decision - or he leaves as planned in June and you then apply for the permit for him. He can apply for the Type D visa in the States and if you get approval he can come back again. If the permit gets approved he won't be limited to the 3 month out rule - the visa will have a period it's valid for and he must arrive within that timeframe. So if he leaves in mid-June and you get a positive result in July/August he should be able to come back before mid-September depending on the period the visa is valid for.
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Old 18.05.2016, 16:07
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

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It has been a while since I went through this, so the laws may have changed, but there may be another option: Study. When I arrived here to see if the relationship would float I was able to register at the University as a student - this gave me a permit, insurance, and even a limited work permit for a relatively small cost. It also really helped my German. At the time tuition was less than a flight back to Canada.
Yes, that is also an option but since he only speaks English as of now, his plan is to enroll in French classes first and then EPFL, however I'm not sure taking French courses counts as being a student. We will certainly be looking into that, I heard UNIL offers intensive French classes for a very reasonable price and great quality. Thanks for the advice

@Medea: I love your honesty I'm thinking that with a copy of the application, refusal letter if that's the case, as well as all other revelant communication pieces, it's worth it to bite the bullet as you say so well and hope for the best! We will be moving into our new appartment about 2 weeks before he would have to leave for the US and we would hate for him to have to leave in the middle of our move. So even if, worse comes to worse, it just buys us a little time, I think it's well worth the risk.

No, there is absolutely NO WAY any decision will be made before his departure date, that would be a MIRACLE!

Just to be extra safe, I'm also going to try (note the "try" as we all know how well our governmental offices respond to emails) to reach out to the cantonal and/or federal offices by email asking them to confirm Joe can stay past 90 days time frame due to pending application that way I have solid proof we were told it was OK to stay - I'm sure between Joe's super-friendly attitude and cute smile, easy-going demeanor and soft tone of voice, backed up with a whole bunch of offical-looking papers, he could charm any border control into cutting him some slack
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Old 18.05.2016, 16:19
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

I have always found FOM to be very prompt in answering the few queries I've put to them and they are the ultimate authority in this sort of case.

Don't count on his charm to work - if he gets a bad officer at border control he could end up with a record in his file, a fine and even a ban from entering Schengen Area for 1-3 years. It has happened and I'm not sure the granting of a resident permit would cancel any ban. Much better to have the paperwork he can show to prove that he was here lawfully if he needs it.
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Old 18.05.2016, 16:43
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

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Don't count on his charm to work - if he gets a bad officer at border control he could end up with a record in his file, a fine and even a ban from entering Schengen Area for 1-3 years. It has happened and I'm not sure the granting of a resident permit would cancel any ban. Much better to have the paperwork he can show to prove that he was here lawfully if he needs it.


From a lot of employees at border control they seem to have removed the empathy gene, at least my experience, so +1 on the "do not count on that"
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Old 19.05.2016, 13:58
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Re: 90 days in 30 mnths out ? What about a border run ?

Well no, not counting on it - but hoping that, along with copies of the application and all other papers he may have, it will help him out should he be bothered at border control.
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