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Old 02.08.2016, 10:16
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23 years old L permit in Zurich

Hi I am working in a leading IT firm in India, My employer wants me to work from Zurich.
What we have raised is a L permit for highly skilled employee.I am a 23 years old with 2 years of work experience.
Am I not eligible in any way to work in Swiss for this short duration ?

Is there any age restriction on highly skilled employee ?

Many thanks in advance,
Shivank
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  #2  
Old 02.08.2016, 10:45
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

L Permits for non-EU are normally initiated by the employer in Switzerland. Your employer in Switzerland will need to start the process and validate that your skill is indeed rare/unique and cannot be found from within Switzerland or the EU. Once the cantonal and federal authorities have approved of your application you can then claim your visa in India. You will get your permit only after you have registered in Switzerland and have submitted your Biometrics.

As such I don't think age is a listed requirement but it does not make a very strong case about how someone with just two years of experience can be 'highly skilled' and cannot be replaced with someone from within Switzerland.
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Old 02.08.2016, 11:13
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

To claim that a 23-year old with 2 years of experience is "highly skilled" is extremely questionable, unless you really happen to operate in an absolute niche market.

There is no age limit for the permit application and if anything, it's in the other direction, i.e. the older and more senior (hierarchically) you get, the more likely you can be qualified as a specialist of some sort. However, your employer needs to prove that there are ZERO Swiss or EU citizens who could do your job. I doubt that's the case.
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Old 02.08.2016, 11:31
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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To claim that a 23-year old with 2 years of experience is "highly skilled" is extremely questionable
Little ageist!?

Just because he is young and only been working for two years, doesn't mean he isn't highly skilled. He may have been spending hours working on his IT skills since childhood and have spent most of his time studying it.

Putting it in a sports context, Rodger Federer was 21 when he won Wimbledon, was he not "Highly Skilled" because he was only 21?
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Old 02.08.2016, 11:32
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

Just some additional information. A total of 4,000 L permits are available to non-EU citizens annually, as well as 2,500 non-EU B permits. For the first six months of 2016, 56% of the non-EU L and 62% of the non-EU B permits have been exhausted. See p. 14 of this quarterly Swiss government report (German):

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...16-06-q2-d.pdf
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Old 02.08.2016, 11:46
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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Little ageist!?

Just because he is young and only been working for two years, doesn't mean he isn't highly skilled. He may have been spending hours working on his IT skills since childhood and have spent most of his time studying it.
It's not ageist in any way. He does not have to be highly skilled, but MORE highly skilled than anyone else. It's simply very unlikely that a 23-year old with a mere 2 years of experience has skills that are significantly higher than those of any of the 500m people and some plus/minus 300m active workforce living in the EU and in CH. Except possibly, as said, if his experience is in a very tiny niche market.


RF is and has always been a tennis prodigy. There's also 9-year olds who are piano virtuosos or 6-year old chess geniuses. Such very exceptional cases are hardly any base for comparison. Of course if OP falls into that category and is an absolute genius in his field, I'll stand corrected.
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Old 02.08.2016, 11:54
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

Priority

(Art. 21 AuG)

Third state nationals may only be admitted if a person can not be recruited from the labour market of Switzerland or another EU/EFTA member state. Swiss citizens, foreign nationals with a longterm residence permit or a residence permit allowing employment, as well as all citizens from those countries with which Switzerland has concluded the Free Movement of Persons Agreement (at present, the EU and EFTA states) are given priority. Employers must prove that they have not been able to recruit a suitable employee from this priority category, despite intensive efforts.

Vacant positions must be registered with the Regional Employment Offices (RAV) together with a request to register the vacancy in the European Employment System (EURES = the European Union’s Employment Services cooperation network). Once a potential employee has been put in contact with the employer and subsequently turned down, the employers generally receive a questionnaire in which they can state the reasons the potential employee was not hired.

Moreover, the employer must explain to the authorities why the search for a suitable candidate by means of the recruitment channels used in the specific industry, such as specialist journals, employment agencies, online job listings or corporate websites, etc., was not successful. Suitable proof includes job advertisements in newspapers, written confirmation from employment agencies, or other kinds of documentation. Often it is helpful for authorities if the employer submits a brief overview of all candidates with a short explanation of which qualifications for a particular job were lacking. In special cases, the authorities can request an employer to intensify his recruitment efforts.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html
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Old 02.08.2016, 11:59
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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Hi I am working in a leading IT firm in India, My employer wants me to work from Zurich.
What we have raised is a L permit for highly skilled employee.I am a 23 years old with 2 years of work experience.
Am I not eligible in any way to work in Swiss for this short duration ?

Is there any age restriction on highly skilled employee ?

Many thanks in advance,
Shivank
Here's an article from December 2015. Google has said "For jobs with a wage of less than CHF 100,000, it has become extremely difficult to obtain a permit." They are referencing the non-EU L permit for highly skilled employees. This is for Zurich Canton, other cantons would be easier to get the work permit.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/11101481

It became more difficult at the beginning of 2015 when the non-EU L/B permit quotas were reduced. The total number of non-EU workers allowed L & B permits was cut from 8500 to 6500 permits for the entire year. I've read that a graduate degree and at least three years of experience is a minimum of what you need to get the non-EU permit now, but I don't have a reference for this. (And you'd need the salary over CHF 100k.)
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Old 02.08.2016, 12:00
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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It's simply very unlikely that a 23-year old with a mere 2 years of experience has skills that are significantly higher than those of any of the 500m people and some plus/minus 300m active workforce living in the EU and in CH. Except possibly, as said, if his experience is in a very tiny niche market.
Not that I disagree with you, but I think it's time to note an important fact about the 500 or 300 million EU people against whom non-EU L- and B-permit applicants are competing. It's all well and good to say that employers have to select their workforce from Switzerland and the EU in preference to non-EU countries, but in reality, the pool of preferred workers is "Swiss and EU workers who are qualified for the job and willing to reside within commuting distance of the employer's premises in Switzerland". That narrows the field somewhat and in practice, the selection field is limited to those already resident in Switzerland (and even then, often those living close enough to the job), plus a very small number of potential employees outside the country.

Employers aren't expected to trawl every city in the EU in the hopes of finding EU workers for their open roles. The abundance of non-EU workers in Switzerland with unexceptional skill sets is a testament to this -- but note, the permit quotas are strict and do limit the number of non-EU workers here.
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Old 02.08.2016, 12:08
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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I've read that a graduate degree and at least three years of experience is a minimum of what you need to get the non-EU permit now, but I don't have a reference for this. (And you'd need the salary over CHF 100k.)
This is a reference to at least the CHF 100k salary figure. According to a Swiss law firm, a non-EU citizen generally needs a master's degree, professional experience, comprehensive language skills and a starting salary of at least CHF 100'000 to be considered "highly qualified". See pp. 11-12 on this pdf (listed as pp. 41-42 on the document). In English:

https://www.vischer.com/fileadmin/us...tzerland_2.pdf
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Old 02.08.2016, 12:17
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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Not that I disagree with you, but I think it's time to note an important fact about the 500 or 300 million EU people against whom non-EU L- and B-permit applicants are competing. It's all well and good to say that employers have to select their workforce from Switzerland and the EU in preference to non-EU countries, but in reality, the pool of preferred workers is "Swiss and EU workers who are qualified for the job and willing to reside within commuting distance of the employer's premises in Switzerland". That narrows the field somewhat and in practice, the selection field is limited to those already resident in Switzerland (and even then, often those living close enough to the job), plus a very small number of potential employees outside the country.

Employers aren't expected to trawl every city in the EU in the hopes of finding EU workers for their open roles. The abundance of non-EU workers in Switzerland with unexceptional skill sets is a testament to this -- but note, the permit quotas are strict and do limit the number of non-EU workers here.
As you can see from my previous post, yes they are.

"Vacant positions must be registered with the Regional Employment Offices (RAV) together with a request to register the vacancy in the European Employment System (EURES = the European Union’s Employment Services cooperation network)."

Nor do they need to reside within commuting distance of an employer's workplace.

"Cross-border commuters from EU-27/EFTA member states are granted professional and geographical mobility. No border zones exist for them anymore. These persons may live anywhere in the EU-27/EFTA region and work anywhere in Switzerland provided that they return to their place of residence abroad once a week."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...g_eu_efta.html

Obviously if the commute is to another EU country several hours away then having a place here in Switzerland during the week will make life easier. But plenty of people live over the borders and commute daily.
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Old 02.08.2016, 12:31
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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As you can see from my previous post, yes they are.

"Vacant positions must be registered with the Regional Employment Offices (RAV) together with a request to register the vacancy in the European Employment System (EURES = the European Union’s Employment Services cooperation network)."

Nor do they need to reside within commuting distance of an employer's workplace.

"Cross-border commuters from EU-27/EFTA member states are granted professional and geographical mobility. No border zones exist for them anymore. These persons may live anywhere in the EU-27/EFTA region and work anywhere in Switzerland provided that they return to their place of residence abroad once a week."

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...g_eu_efta.html

Obviously if the commute is to another EU country several hours away then having a place here in Switzerland during the week will make life easier. But plenty of people live over the borders and commute daily.
Again, in practice and in reality, no -- workers living in London generally do not compete for jobs in Zürich with those living near Zürich.

Certainly, jobs should be advertised EU-wide when non-EU applicants are being considered. That doesn't mean that an EU applicant will automatically get the job.

As someone who has employed many people for professional roles in Switzerland, I can assure you that the real-world situation is somewhat different to the text-book (or rule-book) scenario. But if it helps you to believe that everything always runs prescriptively according to the rules, go ahead.
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Old 02.08.2016, 12:45
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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That narrows the field somewhat and in practice, the selection field is limited to those already resident in Switzerland (and even then, often those living close enough to the job), plus a very small number of potential employees outside the country.

Employers aren't expected to trawl every city in the EU in the hopes of finding EU workers for their open roles. The abundance of non-EU workers in Switzerland with unexceptional skill sets is a testament to this -- but note, the permit quotas are strict and do limit the number of non-EU workers here.
Define "advertise EU-wide"... My experience from working in an MNC: if you published a job on some internet page that is globally accessible, either your own or LinkedIn and the like, and received 100 applications, 80 of which were non-EUs, 20 of which were EUs/Swiss, and they all had similar qualifications (of course unlikely to begin with, but just to illustrate), you indeed had to submit a list of applicants and explain very clearly why you were not willing to hire the EU/Swiss over the non-EU, including a justification as to why the latter has superior skills and standing. Depending on the company - and in our case - there was always an extensive mix of people from all over the world and not just those in or even near Switzerland. It may be different for smaller companies of course.
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Old 02.08.2016, 17:32
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

OP mentions the current employer wants him/her to work in Zurich. How does a company transfer work? Would the employer still need to deal with non-EU hiring rules since it's an internal transfer?
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Old 02.08.2016, 18:58
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

Think they still have to make a case for why a local won't do. Might not be so strict possibly though.
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Old 02.08.2016, 19:05
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

Shivanksharma, would you be working for the Zurich-based company directly, or would you be on secondment from a supplier to the end client?
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Old 02.08.2016, 19:32
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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"Swiss and EU workers who are qualified for the job and willing to reside within commuting distance of the employer's premises in Switzerland". That narrows the field somewhat and in practice, the selection field is limited to those already resident in Switzerland (and even then, often those living close enough to the job), plus a very small number of potential employees outside the country.
This is so true! I thought it was just what I personally witnessed and not indicative of a general trend, but your post makes me think. I can think of at least four separate cases I have seen where the companies had a tough time filling a position because the otherwise highly-qualified, perfect-for-the-job Swiss or EU potentials did not want to move. In all four cases the positions were filled with non-EUs: one intercompany transfer (US), one straight out of grad school (US) and two experienced hires snatched from the competition (one Asia one US). As far as I know they all got their permits.
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Old 02.08.2016, 23:36
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Re: 23 years old L permit in Zurich

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Would the employer still need to deal with non-EU hiring rules since it's an internal transfer?
Yes. Officially anyway.
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