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Old 15.05.2018, 23:52
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

Hi all - and apologies for resuming this old-ish thread, surprisingly it seems the only one discussing this matter.

I received the same form from Zurich's Abteilung Quellensteuer and being in a borderline case I am wondering whether there is more knowledge around the subject, and what the implications of stating over CHF 200k are.

Also if feels a very generic question, if I had a property abroad worth CHF 210k and a mortgage on it worth 50k, would I say no? And if I said yes would there be a follow up, after all I could have 201k or 1000k...

The exact question on my form is it:
Verfügen Sie über Vermögenswerte über CHF 200'000?
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  #22  
Old 16.05.2018, 00:10
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Hi all - and apologies for resuming this old-ish thread, surprisingly it seems the only one discussing this matter.

I received the same form from Zurich's Abteilung Quellensteuer and being in a borderline case I am wondering whether there is more knowledge around the subject, and what the implications of stating over CHF 200k are.

Also if feels a very generic question, if I had a property abroad worth CHF 210k and a mortgage on it worth 50k, would I say no? And if I said yes would there be a follow up, after all I could have 201k or 1000k...

The exact question on my form is it:
Verfügen Sie über Vermögenswerte über CHF 200'000?
As you own the house yes you do if it's 210K.
There will probably be an other question "haben Sie Schulden?" or similar, where you could list the mortgage.
Instead of "Schulden" it could also say "Verbindlichkeiten". Same thing.
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  #23  
Old 16.05.2018, 00:13
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

The house of 210K and the mortgage of 50K make a Vermögenswerte of 160K in my opinion.
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Old 16.05.2018, 00:13
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Hi all - and apologies for resuming this old-ish thread, surprisingly it seems the only one discussing this matter.

I received the same form from Zurich's Abteilung Quellensteuer and being in a borderline case I am wondering whether there is more knowledge around the subject, and what the implications of stating over CHF 200k are.

Also if feels a very generic question, if I had a property abroad worth CHF 210k and a mortgage on it worth 50k, would I say no? And if I said yes would there be a follow up, after all I could have 201k or 1000k...

The exact question on my form is it:
Verfügen Sie über Vermögenswerte über CHF 200'000?
210 - 50 = 160 which is less than 200. Over 200 a tiny amount of wealth tax.
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Old 16.05.2018, 00:31
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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210 - 50 = 160 which is less than 200. Over 200 a tiny amount of wealth tax.
Correct.

<<... kann die Hypothekarschuld vollständig vom steuerbaren Vermögen in Abzug gebracht werden>>
the mortage can be fully deducted from the taxable assets.
source (German).

OP, if you rent out your property, the rent is income
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Old 16.05.2018, 03:52
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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what the implications of stating over CHF 200k are.
This threshold is for a so called "ergänzende Veranlagung". If you're over you'll have to file tax declaration and potentiallly pay even more taxes than you're already paying at source

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Also if feels a very generic question, if I had a property abroad worth CHF 210k and a mortgage on it worth 50k, would I say no?
Well, they don't really have a way to find out about your property abroad if you don't tell and it's not a crime to lie...

On other hand if you had those 200k+ on a bank account and the bank knows you're in CH, they'll talk, so no point in denying this fact, but property ownership is not reportable yet
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Old 16.05.2018, 09:45
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Well, they don't really have a way to find out about your property abroad if you don't tell and it's not a crime to lie...
Really? Funny, that, I assumed that making false declarations to avoid tax would be illegal pretty much anywhere.

It's up to the individual to decide if they want to do so, and it might be hypocritical (for me) to condemn such behaviour, but you shouldn't encourage them to think they're not doing anything wrong if they do.
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Old 16.05.2018, 10:45
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

Thanks all for the comments, especially @ivank, "ergänzende Veranlagung" were the keywords I was after.

I was puzzled by the fact that the form only asks whether or not the assets are worth more than CHF 200K, and doesn't ask what they are actually worth. What I think now is that answering yes will trigger a supplementary assessment procedure (ergänzendes Veranlagungsverfahren). Essentially, a tax return. For reference, see here .

Note the this is only valid for privates subject to withholding tax, as who is not will need to submit the tax return anyway.

In my particular case, without considering the mortgage I'm over the threshold, while subtracting the mortgage value I'm probably below. I guess I will go for a YES and then provide all the detail in the tax return when the time comes.
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Old 16.05.2018, 11:52
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Really? Funny, that, I assumed that making false declarations to avoid tax would be illegal pretty much anywhere.
.
Not in Switzerland, Poviding false documentations is a crime, failing to disclose taxable income is an administrative offence like a parking ticket.
From 2017 if the tax payable would be over 300k in a year, it is as crime.
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Old 16.05.2018, 12:00
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Really? Funny, that, I assumed that making false declarations to avoid tax would be illegal pretty much anywhere.
Not false declarations, just missing declarations Important if it is tax evasion or tax fraud.

Tax evasion is illegal but not a crime (fellony or misdemeanor) but a simple infraction of administrative law punished by a hefty fine.

But if you start to forge documents it becomes tax fraud and a crime.
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  #31  
Old 16.05.2018, 12:06
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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In my particular case, without considering the mortgage I'm over the threshold, while subtracting the mortgage value I'm probably below. I guess I will go for a YES and then provide all the detail in the tax return when the time comes.
Do you live in Zurich City? Then that might result in a nice surprise and higher tax bill as the tax in the city is way above cantonal average. Do you also work in the City? Then the tax will also be higher as your travel deduction will be much less than assumed for tax at source.

I would tick no if the worldwide net wealth is less than 200k.

For best answer, contact the local tax authority how to deal with mortgage and loans regarding this particular question. Do not be afraid to talk to them, they are actually very nice, helpful and "costumer" orientated.
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Old 16.05.2018, 12:16
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Hmm, OK. I guess I need a Tax advisor then, because I have no freaking idea how to deal with this :-/

And I will actually need two of them, since I need to do my taxes in Czech Republic as well.
Why is it so difficult.

You should receive statements from your bank, or can obtain such online, indicating how much money you have,

Likewise with shares and similar.

For real estate, depending on the country, there should be an official estimate of value for the tax purposes of that country. If there isn't it's usually good enough to make an honest estimate yourself, for example based on what you payed or what similar properties are selling for. I have in the past sent a freeform letter explaining briefly why I think my property is worth what i say it is. This was never doubted or questioned. No need to get into panic over it. Now I just refer to the previous year's letter, and they are Ok with that too.
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Old 16.05.2018, 12:31
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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punished by a hefty fine.
I thought the fines were tiny, it used to say up to 1000 or 10,000 in most serious cases on the ZH tax return IIRC.
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Old 16.05.2018, 12:48
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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I thought the fines were tiny, it used to say up to 1000 or 10,000 in most serious cases on the ZH tax return IIRC.
Compared to a parking ticket it is hefty. The above fine is for administrative things. Like not doing a tax return, not sending in requested papers etc.

For successful tax evasion the fine is normally 1x the evaded tax. Can be lower to a 1/3 or raised up to 3 times the evaded tax.

See Art. 55 vs 56 StHG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a55

Here a case where the fine was initially a third, then after objection by the accused was raised to double the evaded tax.
https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/walliser-...len-ld.1374527
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Old 16.05.2018, 17:15
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Do you live in Zurich City? Then that might result in a nice surprise and higher tax bill as the tax in the city is way above cantonal average. Do you also work in the City? Then the tax will also be higher as your travel deduction will be much less than assumed for tax at source.

I would tick no if the worldwide net wealth is less than 200k.

For best answer, contact the local tax authority how to deal with mortgage and loans regarding this particular question. Do not be afraid to talk to them, they are actually very nice, helpful and "costumer" orientated.
Yes, and yes... That's a really good piece of advice, cheers
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Old 10.12.2020, 17:03
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

Resurrecting this thread...I owe shares of various companies, in an American and a Swiss broker, not yet sold...their total value is at the moment >200K CHF.

I suppose I need to declare them, even if I haven't yet cashed out them?
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Old 10.12.2020, 17:15
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Resurrecting this thread...I owe shares of various companies, in an American and a Swiss broker, not yet sold...their total value is at the moment >200K CHF.

I suppose I need to declare them, even if I haven't yet cashed out them?
Yes, you need to declare them, but you won't pay any income or withholding tax on them. However, any dividends that you might have received are subject to income tax
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Old 10.12.2020, 17:22
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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Resurrecting this thread...I owe shares of various companies, in an American and a Swiss broker, not yet sold...their total value is at the moment >200K CHF.

I suppose I need to declare them, even if I haven't yet cashed out them?



This old thread was about the questionnaire. Are you asking now about that questionnaire? Is it the case at the moment that you're not asked to submit a tax declaration but you think you should because your wealth is >200k?
If it's currently the case that you have to submit a tax declaration then you should have already included any shares whether they're worth over 200k or not.
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Old 10.12.2020, 17:52
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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This old thread was about the questionnaire. Are you asking now about that questionnaire? Is it the case at the moment that you're not asked to submit a tax declaration but you think you should because your wealth is >200k?
If it's currently the case that you have to submit a tax declaration then you should have already included any shares whether they're worth over 200k or not.
Yes, I'm asking about the questionnaire, for newcomers to Switzerland.
To be honest I'm surprised that a so-called "low-tax country" like Switzerland has a wealth tax on worldwide income.

How much am I expected to pay?
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Old 10.12.2020, 17:57
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Re: Owning more than 200'000

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This old thread was about the questionnaire. Are you asking now about that questionnaire? Is it the case at the moment that you're not asked to submit a tax declaration but you think you should because your wealth is >200k?
If it's currently the case that you have to submit a tax declaration then you should have already included any shares whether they're worth over 200k or not.
As far as I know you must actually voluntarily, and on your own discloses any financial mater which would lead to extra taxation. Just waiting for the questioner is not good enough.

§93 Abs . StG-Canton ZH
http://www2.zhlex.zh.ch/appl/zhlex_r.nsf/WebView/2500DE26F63DED2FC12577FB0026015B/$File/631.1_8.6.97_71.pdf
Section 63 Weisung der Finanzdirektion zur Durchführung der Quellensteuer für Arbeitnehmerinnen und Arbeitnehmer
https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...zstb-87-2.html
Section 3 and 11 Weisung der Finanzdirektion über die ergänzende Veranlagung bei der Erhebung von Quellensteuern
https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...zstb-93-1.html

Limit is CHF 200k of (worldwide) wealth, or (worldwide) income not subject to tax at source of more than CHF 2500. Income includes dividends, interests, lottery winnings, etc. etc.

Note: Other cantons other rules.

@NewInTownForever As your location is the so called "Big Canton" you will have to search the relevant regulation on your own.
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