Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.02.2017, 23:31
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Germany near from Basel
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
guckogucko has no particular reputation at present
Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Hi, I was offered a very nice job in Basel as a software developer. I currently live in German town near Basel (around 45 minutes away) so i will be commuting everyday. I will get paid around 100k/year. I haven't received the contract yet so I don't know more details.

However I'm very reluctant about accepting the offer, mainly because I don't know if it's a good move or not from a financial perspective. My current salary in Germany is 55k/year. But i'm not sure what will happen from a taxes perspective. Is Switzerland gonna deduce taxes as well? Do contracts in Switzerland normally also include health insurance or would I be required to pay one from my salary? What I'm trying to find out if I will be really saving much more money after all by living in Germany and commuting to Switzerland. I can't move out mainly because of my wife and kinds since we have friends and family where we currently live and don't wanna ruin the social atmosphere for us.

I really appreciate any help on this! Thanks a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11.02.2017, 23:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Quote:
View Post
But i'm not sure what will happen from a taxes perspective. Is Switzerland gonna deduce taxes as well?
If you commute every day, the germans will want to tax your swiss salary. German taxes are significantly higher than swiss, easily 40-50% of your salary increase will be lost to the taxes. The swiss will charge some tax at source too, but that should be deductable under double taxation treaties, so that in the end you just end up paying the higher tax of the two, which is obvilously the german.

Quote:
Do contracts in Switzerland normally also include health insurance
No

Quote:
or would I be required to pay one from my salary?
Yes. I think as a non-resident you can freely choose either get a swiss one or keep an equivalent german one, whatever is cheaper.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank ivank for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 11.02.2017, 23:59
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Germany near from Basel
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
guckogucko has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Thanks a lot for answering this. Can you give me an estimate how much "netto" will end up in my bank account after all of that?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.02.2017, 00:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

The swiss should take out of your brutto salary just the tax at source and various social deductions. Tax at source rate for "Grenzgänger" is low, I think 4.5% or so. But don't be deceived by it. After your german taxes are processed, you'll still owe the rather high german taxes as if you earned all this money in Germany. Germany's highest marginal income tax rate of 42% kicks in already from 53665 EUR income, so that's what you'll probable pay in taxes on the salary difference. The germans should subtract from their tax bill whatever amount the swiss withheld to prevent double taxation, so effectively you'll owe in total just the german taxes.

Major swiss social security deductions: AHV/IV (state pension) 5.125%, ALV (unemployment insurance) 1.1%, some varying amount for company pension plan (maybe 5-10% or so), possibly some small amount for accident insurance. Cheapest swiss health insurance is around 200-300 Fr/month, but you'll probably be able to keep a german one instead.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12.02.2017, 00:32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Germany near from Basel
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
guckogucko has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

So if my salary is 100K a year and considering the high german taxes + whatever swiss taxes, then I should end up with around 50k a year netto. Now if I also subtract 300 Euros monthly for the health insurance I should be around 45k/year.

Well ... that should be pretty good then, right!? My current German salary is 55k/year *before* taxes, and now if I accept the job in Basel then I will end up with 45k/year netto. Am I calculating things wrong?!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12.02.2017, 00:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Sounds around right. But on the other hand if you'd live in Switzerland, you'd probably get like 75-80k/year netto = 100k - 10k taxes - 10-15k deductions and insurance. Renting will be certainly more costly here, but you'd also save a lot on commute, both time and money. If you have any non negligible wealth in stocks, swiss residence is also much better - lower dividend taxes and no capital gains taxes.

Last edited by ivank; 12.02.2017 at 00:55.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ivank for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 12.02.2017, 01:05
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Germany near from Basel
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
guckogucko has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

I'm deeply thankful for all your helpful answers!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12.02.2017, 10:02
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 20,696
Groaned at 357 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 15,152 Times in 8,685 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Most important question though is what nationality are you? If an EU, yes you can do the cross border thing. If a non-EU national it may not be possible and the only way to accept the position would be for you to move to Switzerland if the permit application is approved.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12.02.2017, 10:50
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Germany near from Basel
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
guckogucko has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Yes I'm non EU but I have a permanent residence in Germany, so I believe i can do it.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12.02.2017, 10:56
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,703
Groaned at 1,764 Times in 1,338 Posts
Thanked 32,203 Times in 15,416 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Quote:
View Post
Yes I'm non EU but I have a permanent residence in Germany, so I believe i can do it.
In that case, you most likely can't.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12.02.2017, 11:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,386
Groaned at 261 Times in 197 Posts
Thanked 15,722 Times in 5,528 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Quote:
View Post
So if my salary is 100K a year and considering the high german taxes + whatever swiss taxes, then I should end up with around 50k a year netto. Now if I also subtract 300 Euros monthly for the health insurance I should be around 45k/year.

Well ... that should be pretty good then, right!? My current German salary is 55k/year *before* taxes, and now if I accept the job in Basel then I will end up with 45k/year netto. Am I calculating things wrong?!
you change from 55k to 100k. that is the main difference.
you need to look for typical German benefits that you will not receive, like the employer contribution for health insurance.
also, be aware that you have a currency risk with CHF/EUR in your base income.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12.02.2017, 11:05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aarau
Posts: 64
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
mkparasar has become a little unpopularmkparasar has become a little unpopular
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Quote:
View Post
Yes I'm non EU but I have a permanent residence in Germany, so I believe i can do it.

you have to be careful. first of all have you informed your expected emlpoyer in switzerland that you are non-EU? as they Need to apply for your Permit first. you can not work in switzerland with your German permanent residency unless you have Passport issued by any EU Country.


if you are considering EU Blue Card then please note that switzerland is not part of EU.


so i dont think you have choice. you will have to live in Switzerland only.


HTH
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mkparasar for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 12.02.2017, 11:08
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 20,696
Groaned at 357 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 15,152 Times in 8,685 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

a) Your prospective employer will have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who can do the job. Your permanent status in Germany means nothing in this respect.

b) You must have lived in the border zone next to Basel for at least 6 months. Whether you do or not, you'd need to check with Basel's migration office as I can't find a map to show exactly what area in Germany this covers.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 12.02.2017, 12:14
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,072
Groaned at 98 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 6,582 Times in 2,512 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Quote:
View Post
Yes I'm non EU but I have a permanent residence in Germany, so I believe i can do it.
No.

Same rules apply for non-EU working in Switzerland whether you live in Germany or not - i.e. lengthy justification by the employer as to why you're the only one able to do the job, proof there are no qualified CH/EU candidates etc.pp. And for someone who wants to live in Germany, on top of all that, you need to have lived in the border zone (everything with a postal code 79***) for a certain period of time, not sure how long, used to be a couple of years or so, now it's less I think.

If that town 45mins away is in the above postal code, then maybe it's possible. If they can prove everything else they're supposed to prove of course. Your residence permit for Germany doesn't make you eligible to work in Switzerland - the only thing that counts for that is your nationality.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 04.11.2019, 16:58
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MikeyMagdi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Hi Guys,

Decided not to start a new thread as the most of information is here already. I am going through an interview process with one of engineering companies north of Baden.

I am planning to live as above in Germany whilst working in Switzerland. I do understand all tax calculations and contributions however health insurance isn't clear to me at all.

My wife would look after our little boy no she wouldn't work
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04.11.2019, 17:00
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MikeyMagdi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Sorry ignore last line....

My wife would look after our 2 months old boy so she wouldn't work to start with. We are EU citizens and we don't know how to calculate how much we will need to spend on health insurance for all 3 of us.

Can't really start negotiating without knowing if it's likely to be 300e or 800e.

Is there anyone who can explain or give us some advise?

Many thanks in advance
Michal
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04.11.2019, 17:02
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MikeyMagdi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Would we need to get it in Germany ?
Is it possible to use state health insurance ?
How much could it be?

Really appreciate your help
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04.11.2019, 17:39
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,980
Groaned at 85 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 16,590 Times in 7,395 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Here the information from the Swiss goverment.
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...rinnen-ch.html

You and all non-working family members will need either at Swiss health insurance or optionaly German health insurance. You must request an exemption from Swiss health insurnace if you get German health insurnace.

https://www.kvg.org/en/application-a...--1--3097.html

Here the information from a Swiss health insurance company:
https://www.swica.ch/en/private/insu...-insurance/faq

You will have to check wich option is cheaper / provides better coverage. Be aware that you cannot easiliy switch from one country's helath insurance to another.
__________________
"I think so, Brain. But where are we going to find a gallon of whip cream and three yards of lederhosen at this time of night? Narf!"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05.11.2019, 00:34
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MikeyMagdi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Hi,

Really helpful. Thanks a lot. If I decided to go for German family package is this just a private policy or it needs to be a certain one for a grenzgangen?

Really appreciate your help.

Many many thanks,
Michal
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05.11.2019, 08:11
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 6,025
Groaned at 120 Times in 87 Posts
Thanked 7,076 Times in 3,340 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is working in Switzerland and living in Germany a good idea?

Quote:
View Post
Hi,

Really helpful. Thanks a lot. If I decided to go for German family package is this just a private policy or it needs to be a certain one for a grenzgangen?

Really appreciate your help.

Many many thanks,
Michal
Not quite sure why you want to live in Germany and work in Switzerland. Living near the German border in Aargau I can tell you that the traffic to commute is brutal. This is what you want to be facing everyday???

Affordable housing can be found in Aargau. This isn't Zurich where people queue up for apartment viewings. In fact there are many empty apartments in Canton Aargau, though this varies by location. If apartment living is not for you, (in case you have pets, for example) houses can also be found, though it can, but not always, be more expensive than an apartment.

Health insurance premiums in Switzerland you can compare on line. There are many options, so the premiums can vary.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help with idea on living in Germany working in Switzerland JJJames Housing in general 9 01.10.2014 15:18
looking for someone swiss living in Germany and working in Switzerland Nanabozzo Finance/banking/taxation 1 06.07.2011 00:18
Living in Germany and working in Switzerland William Helgison Daily life 3 13.10.2010 20:39
Health Insurance -working in Switzerland but living in Germany Spagirl Insurance 2 20.03.2009 10:28
Working in Switzerland and living in Germany. Good idea or not? Wacky Employment 11 04.05.2008 15:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0