Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.02.2017, 16:19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
andrewjay has no particular reputation at present
Permit L Dependent

Hello - My wife recently found out that her permit to work in Zurich has been approved. She has a job lined up, and I'm starting to look for work. We're both US citizens and have manager level experience.


She's been approved for a 24 month Permit L which I am a dependent on. That being said, what is the process for me to get a job? Would I have to get my own permit/go through the whole permit process again? Can I work off the backend of her permit?


Should I be concerned about finding work/getting my own permit being a US Citizen?


Thanks for your help in advanced!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27.02.2017, 16:33
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,077
Groaned at 366 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 13,937 Times in 6,500 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Here is where you will find almost any answer to any question:


http://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27.02.2017, 16:35
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
andrewjay has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
Here is where you will find almost any answer to any question:


http://www.englishforum.ch/permits-visas-government/


I've looked through a number of these threads, none of which were all that helpful. Specifically to my case. If anyone can shed more light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27.02.2017, 16:53
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

As the dependent of an L permit holder you do not have a right to work here. So any employer has to apply for permission to hire you and they have to meet labour and pay conditions to get that permission. You will also need to have professional qualifications, i.e. a university degree.

From the Foreign Nationals Act:

"Members of the family of a short stay permit holder (art. 26 OASA) do not have a right to gainful employment. The gainful activity is subject to authorization.

On admission, a request by the employer respecting the pay and conditions of employment customary in the locality and in the branch must be made. In addition, members of the family of a short stay permit holder (art. 26OASA) must have professional qualifications (personal qualifications, Art. 23 AuG).

The possibility of gainful employment for family members is related, according to art. OASA 26 and 27, to the duration of the authorization of the person granted family reunification. If the residence permit of the spouse is not renewed, the members of his family cannot claim a right to pursue their gainful employment (art.6, para. 2, OASA)."

If the employer can get permission then you'll be able to work, but if your wife should lose her right to a Swiss permit you would lose yours also.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 27.02.2017, 17:15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
andrewjay has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
If the employer can get permission then you'll be able to work, but if your wife should lose her right to a Swiss permit you would lose yours also.
Thanks for the detailed information! Very helpful.


Just to clarify - when you refer to "employer" above, would this be my wife's employer or my potential employer?


If it's the former, the permit has already been approved for my wife. Would it be possible for her employer to go back and request a working permit for me?


Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27.02.2017, 17:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 10,906
Groaned at 34 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 25,583 Times in 7,958 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
Would it be possible for her employer to go back and request a working permit for me?
Generally speaking, not unless that employer is also offering you a job.




Quote:
View Post
Should I be concerned about finding work
Permit issues aside...

Whether or not you will have an easy or difficult time finding work also depends on what you bring to the table (languages spoken, experience, recognized qualifications, etc.) and the state of your industry in Switzerland today.

You mentioned that you are 'management level' - what does that mean, and in what field?

Some sectors of the Swiss economy are growing, some holding their own, some stagnating, some are shrinking fast.

So -a bit more information about your background, the type of work you will be looking for, and the industry you are targeting would help us to better help you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27.02.2017, 17:29
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the detailed information! Very helpful.


Just to clarify - when you refer to "employer" above, would this be my wife's employer or my potential employer?


If it's the former, the permit has already been approved for my wife. Would it be possible for her employer to go back and request a working permit for me?


Thanks!
No, it's any employer who wants to employ you. Her employer cannot get you a working permit unless they are also going to employ you and have been through the non-EU hiring process to do so.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27.02.2017, 17:46
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
andrewjay has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
You mentioned that you are 'management level' - what does that mean, and in what field?


6 years in banking and securities. Both within industry and in audit/consulting.


I don't speak any other language besides English (unfortunately). I have a degree in economics/business administration and a certification in AML.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27.02.2017, 18:00
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Well, banking/finance is shrinking here the last few years. Still you could try some of these companies once you've arrived.

English speaking companies + Web Sites for job searchers in Switzerland

Don't do it beforehand because otherwise they'd have to go through the non-EU hiring criteria which is more difficult.

The other problem you have is that the Swiss government is trying to curb immigration so even more emphasis is being put on employers to hire people who already have long term permits to live/work here. Many now advertise only for B or C permit holders, something you won't be able to get.

It's probably not impossible, but may be very difficult to find work in your field. So be prepared to possibly be a house husband for the next couple of years.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28.02.2017, 22:20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
andrewjay has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
It's probably not impossible, but may be very difficult to find work in your field. So be prepared to possibly be a house husband for the next couple of years.


That's definitely not something that I want to hear...


My wife's HR informed her that for me to start working once we're over there it would be administrative in task for my potential employer (plus fees, etc) to switch my permit from resident to working.


For example, I wouldn't have to go through the long permit process as I already have the "resident" permit. The employer would have to submit a working permit for me to begin work. Is this true?


Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 28.02.2017, 22:59
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

See post 4.

If an employer makes a request to hire you and can meet the conditions laid down, then they'll get permission. If they can't meet the conditions they won't.

As said that may not be the main problem however. Fewer jobs in banking/finance than there used to be - for which there'll be more Swiss/EU nationals with similar qualifications/experience and holding B or C permits who'll you be competing with. That will put you at the back of the queue because they don't need the employer to have to ask permission to be able to hire them.

Have a look at these websites and see what may be available.

www.jobs.ch
www.jobup.ch
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28.02.2017, 23:13
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,333
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
My wife's HR informed her that for me to start working once we're over there it would be administrative in task for my potential employer (plus fees, etc) to switch my permit from resident to working.

For example, I wouldn't have to go through the long permit process as I already have the "resident" permit. The employer would have to submit a working permit for me to begin work. Is this true?
No it is not true.
They are wrong.

Medea has outlined the process and is correct.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07.03.2017, 15:20
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 129
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
proshut has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
Whether or not you will have an easy or difficult time finding work also depends on what you bring to the table
EXACTELY TRUE!

If you have something to offer that the employer is really looking for, they will definitely go through the hassle to get a work permit for you (though no guarantee from the authorities' side). I would say, in many cases, language is less of a problem than qualifications. Being a native English speaker is definitely a plus for big firms.

As a non-EU, the higher your degree and qualifications, the higher your chances to get a work permit because it is easier for the employer to prove that they couldn't find anyone like you in CH and in EU to do the job!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08.03.2017, 01:04
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: M.I.A
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post
singingindarain is considered knowledgeablesingingindarain is considered knowledgeablesingingindarain is considered knowledgeable
Re: Permit L Dependent

Just to check:

OP's wife is American with an L permit. OP is NON-EU and can not work on an L dependent permit.

BUT would the same be true if
- OP's wife were European?
- OP's wife had a B permit?

I'm asking because I'm EU and my husband is NON-EU and we were under the impression that once I got a job and a permit, he could "piggy-back" on my residence permit and also be gainfully employed on a dependent residence permit as long as I (EU citizen) had a valid permit.

Sorry for the hijack!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08.03.2017, 01:29
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,977
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
No it is not true.
They are wrong.

Medea has outlined the process and is correct.
Why are they wrong? It sounds exactly right and it's what is posted above.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08.03.2017, 07:13
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
Just to check:

OP's wife is American with an L permit. OP is NON-EU and can not work on an L dependent permit.

BUT would the same be true if
- OP's wife were European?
- OP's wife had a B permit?

I'm asking because I'm EU and my husband is NON-EU and we were under the impression that once I got a job and a permit, he could "piggy-back" on my residence permit and also be gainfully employed on a dependent residence permit as long as I (EU citizen) had a valid permit.

Sorry for the hijack!!
The rules are different for a) an EU national's spouse and b) B permit holders. You're correct, your spouse will simply need to find a job and present their employment contract to the gemeinde/commune to them know he's now working. So long as you have a Swiss permit he'll be able to work.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 17.03.2017, 17:04
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
andrewjay has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
Why are they wrong? It sounds exactly right and it's what is posted above.



So I've done a little more research on the matter. After speaking to recruiters and the AWA in Zurich, it's relatively easy for a potential employer to switch my non-working permit to a working one.


The problem I am having is that I feel like not a lot of companies know this. From recruiters I've spoken to they are under the impression that being a dependent on permit L means I cannot work, period. However, I can and it's just as simple as applying for a working permit if I had EU/Swiss citizenship (as I've already gone through the process to get the dependent permit).


I'm well qualified for many jobs I've applied to, I just don't know how or what I can do to make this known to them without being upfront/rude. Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 17.03.2017, 17:50
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
The problem I am having is that I feel like not a lot of companies know this. From recruiters I've spoken to they are under the impression that being a dependent on permit L means I cannot work, period. However, I can and it's just as simple as applying for a working permit if I had EU/Swiss citizenship (as I've already gone through the process to get the dependent permit).
Companies may not, they're not always au fait with the rules. Recruiters too may not be aware because they don't deal with such permits themselves, as it's the employer who has to make any application - not a recruiting agency. But they still have to meet the required criteria to be able to hire you so it's not just as easy as hiring a Swiss/EU national, sorry. And as said, many will not necessarily make the application for the change in your permit, preferring to hire those with a B/C permit instead.

Frankly, until you're here and have your permit it's probably a waste of your time applying, particularly to the recruiting agencies as they have no say in the employment of L permit dependent holders. You may have more luck once you've settled in and approach companies directly.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09.05.2017, 12:26
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
littlealeks has no particular reputation at present
Re: Permit L Dependent

Quote:
View Post
As the dependent of an L permit holder you do not have a right to work here. So any employer has to apply for permission to hire you and they have to meet labour and pay conditions to get that permission. You will also need to have professional qualifications, i.e. a university degree.

From the Foreign Nationals Act:

"Members of the family of a short stay permit holder (art. 26 OASA) do not have a right to gainful employment. The gainful activity is subject to authorization.

On admission, a request by the employer respecting the pay and conditions of employment customary in the locality and in the branch must be made. In addition, members of the family of a short stay permit holder (art. 26OASA) must have professional qualifications (personal qualifications, Art. 23 AuG).

The possibility of gainful employment for family members is related, according to art. OASA 26 and 27, to the duration of the authorization of the person granted family reunification. If the residence permit of the spouse is not renewed, the members of his family cannot claim a right to pursue their gainful employment (art.6, para. 2, OASA)."

If the employer can get permission then you'll be able to work, but if your wife should lose her right to a Swiss permit you would lose yours also.

How long is the process for an employer to get authorisation/ permission to hire a Permit L Dependant? As part of this application do they have to prove they can't find a local (i.e. 2.5 months of advertising)? Or do they just need this authorisation as a formality?

Next week I'm joining my Non-EU, L permit approved husband in Switzerland, I am a Non-EU spouse with professional qualifications in Finance.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09.05.2017, 12:34
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Permit L Dependent

As you can see from the quote the law is a bit vague on that: "a request by the employer respecting the pay and conditions of employment customary in the locality and in the branch must be made." I guess it will depend on the type of job you're looking for. It's probably not as strict as having to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national. How long it takes is anyone's guess.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Main permit and Dependent permit swap for Non EU HappyCreature Permits/visas/government 3 20.12.2013 08:37
Dependent Permit for Parent of non EU B permit holder shethneela Permits/visas/government 1 26.01.2011 21:39
B Permit and Stay / Dependent permit issue timeline by canton Indianguy Permits/visas/government 1 26.06.2009 17:40
Have dependent L permit, applied for L WP, can she travel on L dependent now? mashu786 Permits/visas/government 0 10.03.2009 12:26


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0