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Old 18.03.2017, 14:45
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C permit application before expiration of B?

Hello everybody,

It is time for my first post to a forum that I really admire and helped me a lot with the info that provided to me.

I searched a lot but I couldn't find a thread applying to my case.

Here is my situation:
-I am an EU-15 citizen
-I started with one-year B permit because I was studying.
-It was renewed for another year
-Then I found work and B was renewed for 5 years.

Soon I will complete five years residing in CH (1+1+3).

Do the first one-year B student permits count as normal B permits?

If yes, will I be able to apply for a C-permit 2 years before the expiration of the current B permit?

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
megapixel
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  #2  
Old 18.03.2017, 17:24
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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Hello everybody,

It is time for my first post to a forum that I really admire and helped me a lot with the info that provided to me.

I searched a lot but I couldn't find a thread applying to my case.

Here is my situation:
-I am an EU-15 citizen
-I started with one-year B permit because I was studying.
-It was renewed for another year
-Then I found work and B was renewed for 5 years.

Soon I will complete five years residing in CH (1+1+3).

Do the first one-year B student permits count as normal B permits?

If yes, will I be able to apply for a C-permit 2 years before the expiration of the current B permit?

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
megapixel
No idea on the first questions, on the last one: No afaik.
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Old 18.03.2017, 17:34
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

At this link are the C permit regulations for Ct. Zurich. In particular, I would encourage you to read section 4 and this sentence for applicability to your situation:

"Aufenthalte zur Aus- oder Weiterbildung (Art. 27 AuG) werden angerechnet, wenn die betroffene Person nach deren Beendigung während zweier Jahre ununterbrochen im Besitz einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung für einen dauerhaften Aufenthalt war (Art. 34 Abs. 5 AuG)."

http://www.ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherh...-+Internet.pdf
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Old 18.03.2017, 17:47
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

1. Residence for study is counted towards C permit, if after graduation the person has been working for 2 consecutive years. This is defined in the federal law, which applies to every canton.

2. Applying for an (early or not early, eu or non-eu) C permit has nothing to do with the expiration date of your current permit. Of course you do not have to wait the renewal of your current permit.

From 1 and 2, you can just go ahead and apply for your C permit.
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Old 18.03.2017, 19:21
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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At this link are the C permit regulations for Ct. Zurich. In particular, I would encourage you to read section 4 and this sentence for applicability to your situation:

"Aufenthalte zur Aus- oder Weiterbildung (Art. 27 AuG) werden angerechnet, wenn die betroffene Person nach deren Beendigung während zweier Jahre ununterbrochen im Besitz einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung für einen dauerhaften Aufenthalt war (Art. 34 Abs. 5 AuG)."

http://www.ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherh...-+Internet.pdf


Thanks a lot, I forgot to mention that I live in Aargau; do the same apply here?
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Old 18.03.2017, 19:22
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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1. Residence for study is counted towards C permit, if after graduation the person has been working for 2 consecutive years. This is defined in the federal law, which applies to every canton.

2. Applying for an (early or not early, eu or non-eu) C permit has nothing to do with the expiration date of your current permit. Of course you do not have to wait the renewal of your current permit.

From 1 and 2, you can just go ahead and apply for your C permit.
Thanks a lot happyribbie; do have any references for the above statements?
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  #7  
Old 18.03.2017, 20:05
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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Thanks a lot happyribbie; do have any references for the above statements?
The first thing (about counting study permit) is from Federal law on foreigners. The abbrevation of this law is LEtr in French and AuG in German. The reference given by Mullhollander (the Zurich cantonal document) also refers to this federal law (article 27, 34 of AuG)
The law itself is here: https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...232/index.html

The second thing is just so obvious. You can apply for any permit as long as you are qualified, and what does that have to do with your current permit expiry date? In the requirement of permit C, there is never mentioned "you need to have a B permit which will expire". And I just saw so many cases, where one asks for a B(or C) permit as soon as one is qualified, before his L(or B) permit is expired. My OH got his C long before his B expired. One of my friend at first got L instead of B, and the authorities even accompanied a letter explaining the requirement for a B and says ”you can apply for a B permit as soon as you satisfy these, no need to wait for the end of your L permit".
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Old 18.03.2017, 20:05
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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Thanks a lot, I forgot to mention that I live in Aargau; do the same apply here?
The quoted sentence is based on the Federal AuG (AusländerGesetz = Foreigners' Law) and so should apply in Ct. Aargau.

These are the guidelines and required supporting documents for obtaining a C permit in Ct. Aargau:

https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/migration_i...illigung_1.jsp

I believe the early issuance of a C permit under VINTA, suggested by happyrobbie above, is intended for non-EU citizens.
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Old 18.03.2017, 20:19
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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The quoted sentence is based on the Federal AuG (AusländerGesetz = Foreigners' Law) and so should apply in Ct. Aargau.

These are the guidelines and required supporting documents for obtaining a C permit in Ct. Aargau:

https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/migration_i...illigung_1.jsp

I believe the early issuance of a C permit under VINTA, suggested by happyrobbie above, is intended for non-EU citizens.
We point to the same reference. Thanks.
No, I did not mean his C permit is an "early" one. His C permit is a regular EU C permit after 5 years residence in Switzerland.
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Old 18.03.2017, 20:46
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

Thanks a lot guys.

Few more questions.

1. Assuming that I stay unemployed with stat benefits for some time, will this affect the outcome of the C permit application? (will it be considered that i received a social benefit?)

2. Art.34 of the law mentions: "they have resided in Switzerland for a minimum of ten years in total on the basis with a short stay or residence permit and have held a residence permit without interruption for the last five years;"
So it sounds like i need 10 years of stay?

3. Will the same law for C permit apply after 1.1.2018?

Thanks.
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  #11  
Old 18.03.2017, 20:56
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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Thanks a lot guys.

Few more questions.

1. Assuming that I stay unemployed with stat benefits for some time, will this affect the outcome of the C permit application? (will it be considered that i received a social benefit?)

2. Art.34 of the law mentions: "they have resided in Switzerland for a minimum of ten years in total on the basis with a short stay or residence permit and have held a residence permit without interruption for the last five years;"
So it sounds like i need 10 years of stay?

3. Will the same law for C permit apply after 1.1.2018?

Thanks.
1. In this case you need to specify more details. When and for how long you received umployment benefit? Usually, to get an EU C permit, past unemployment benefit is not an obstacle (I talk about umployment benefit, not social assitance). But in your case it's a bit special, as you need to let your 2 years student permit be counted, and this has some condition more strict than if you had a 5-year B permit from the beginning.

2. No, the 10 years mentioned in AuG is for non-eu nationals. as you are from EU-15, you can have C permit after 5 years residence, not 10 years.

3. Nothing significant will be changed for getting C permit from 01.01.2018 (the naturalization yes but C permit no)
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  #12  
Old 18.03.2017, 21:00
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

1. I haven't received any after 2 years of full employment but there is high probability I will receive in the future, ONLY unemployment benefit.

I am not sure I understood what you mentioned about the 2 studying years. I didn't receive any social contribution.

4. Those two studying years were in another canton. Does this affect what we discussed?
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  #13  
Old 18.03.2017, 21:13
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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1. I haven't received any after 2 years of full employment but there is high probability I will receive in the future, ONLY unemployment benefit.

I am not sure I understood what you mentioned about the 2 studying years. I didn't receive any social contribution.

4. Those two studying years were in another canton. Does this affect what we discussed?
1. I had the question because to let the student permit counted, you have to work continuously for 2 years after graduation. If during these first 2 years you were unemployed then your student permit will not be counted (seems not the case for you, as you did work 2 years without stop after your study)

4. In which canton you did your study is not relevant here.

5. Note that when you apply for a C permit (or renew your 5-year B permit), you need to be employed.
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Old 18.03.2017, 21:14
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

For purposes of obtaining a C permit, there are two types of EU citizens. EU/ EFTA citizens of these countries more or less are automatically eligible for the C permit at five years:

Belgien
Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Dänemark
Frankreich
Fürstentum Liechtenstein
Griechenland
Italien
Niederlande
Österreich
Portugal
Spanien

Citizens of all other EU/ EFTA countries can obtain a C permit by jumping over a few more hurdles. These are detailed at this Ct. Aargau link:

https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/migration_i...illigung_1.jsp

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Old 18.03.2017, 21:15
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

At the above link, then select on the sub-link:

"Vorzeitige Erteilung der Niederlassungsbewilligung für Nicht-EU/EFTA sowie EU-10-Staatsangehörige"
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Old 18.03.2017, 21:19
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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For purposes of obtaining a C permit, there are two types of EU citizens. EU/ EFTA citizens of these countries more or less are automatically eligible for the C permit at five years:

Belgien
Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Dänemark
Frankreich
Fürstentum Liechtenstein
Griechenland
Italien
Niederlande
Österreich
Portugal
Spanien

Citizens of all other EU/ EFTA countries can obtain a C permit by jumping over a few more hurdles. These are detailed at this Ct. Aargau link:

https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/migration_i...illigung_1.jsp

Very good info. Thanks. I think this may be similar to something I posted before:
https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...ml#post2750716

So now the question is OP's nationality
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Old 18.03.2017, 21:22
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

Thanks a lot guys.

1. I studied for 2 years and then a 2 month pause with B permit but without any state benefits and then 2 years work uninterrupted. So I guess they can still count.

My question was more whether being under unemployment benefit after those 4 years and being employed during application will affect the application outcome.

5. Mullhollander I think happyrobbie is right since in the AG link mentioned by you an employment contract is required.


I belong to the list 1 in the link happyrobbie provided.
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Old 18.03.2017, 21:32
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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Thanks a lot guys.

1. I studied for 2 years and then a 2 month pause with B permit but without any state benefits and then 2 years work uninterrupted. So I guess they can still count.

My question was more whether being under unemployment benefit after those 4 years and being employed during application will affect the application outcome.

5. Mullhollander I think happyrobbie is right since in the AG link mentioned by you an employment contract is required.


I belong to the list 1 in the link happyrobbie provided.
- Your 2-year study will be counted towards C permit.
- However if you receive unemployed benifit when you apply for your C permit, there is a high probability that it will be refused. And if your C permit is refused, you will most probably not get another 5-year B either (can be transformed to an L or B of 1 year or longer to cover the period of unemployment benifit).
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Old 18.03.2017, 21:35
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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- Your 2-year study will be counted towards C permit.
- However if you receive unemployed benifit when you apply for your C permit, there is a high probability that it will be refused. And if your C permit is refused, you will most probably not get another 5-year B either (can be transformed to an L or B of 1 year or longer to cover the period of unemployment benifit).

Hmmm, if the C application will be refused then won't continue with my current B-permit until its expiration??
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Old 18.03.2017, 21:40
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Re: C permit application before expiration of B?

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Hmmm, if the C application will be refused then won't continue with my current B-permit until its expiration??
Hahahaha yes you are right! I forgot your initial question and thought you would apply when renewing your B. Yes you have your 5-year B! Refusal of C in this case does not impact your existing B permit!
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