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Old 31.03.2017, 20:10
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divorce after naturalisation

Dear Members
Im a non- EU married to a Swiss for almost 7 years now. I have 3 children ages 24,19 and 17 from my previous marriage and a 5 year old with my Swiss husband. My 24 yr old child has a full time job and moved out already. My sons and i have applied for naturalisation and my 17 yr old and i have already had our interview. My husband emotionally and verbally abuses us all the time and speaks alot of lies. I have a 15% job since last September and he wants half of that money. He gives us no pocket money but gives my sons money to buy lunch from school for which he wants the receipts as well. I want to separate from him but not sure what will happen if i divorce now or should i wait for the whole naturalisation process to finish and how long should i wait after we receive our passes.......if we receive it. How will my divorce affect my sons application

Thanks in advance
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Old 31.03.2017, 21:10
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

Facilitated naturalization requires that the married couple live "in an effective, unique and stable conjugal life, without intention to separate or divorce".

- If separation or divorce happens before the naturalization is finalized, the naturalization process will simply be canceled, as if you had not asked for naturalization.

- If you divorce shortly after the naturalization (max. tracing time is 8 years after the moment when the naturalization decision is made), then the authorities may open an investigation if they have sufficient doubt. The point is to determine whether you still had "effective, unique and stable conjugal life without intention to separate or divorce" at the end of naturalization process. If yes, the naturalization will not be affected; otherwise, it will be revoked.
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Old 31.03.2017, 21:17
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

Hi Happyrobbie

Thanks for the info. One more question........what would happen if i divorce after a year of naturalisation
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Old 31.03.2017, 21:22
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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- If you divorce shortly after the naturalization (max. tracing time is 8 years after the moment when the naturalization decision is made), then the authorities may open an investigation if they have sufficient doubt. The point is to determine whether you still had "effective, unique and stable conjugal life without intention to separate or divorce" at the end of naturalization process. If yes, the naturalization will not be affected; otherwise, it will be revoked.
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Hi Happyrobbie

Thanks for the info. One more question........what would happen if i divorce after a year of naturalisation
That
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Old 31.03.2017, 21:22
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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Hi Happyrobbie

Thanks for the info. One more question........what would happen if i divorce after a year of naturalisation

the authorities may open an investigation if they have sufficient doubt. The point is to determine whether you still had "effective, unique and stable conjugal life without intention to separate or divorce" at the end of naturalization process. If yes, the naturalization will not be affected; otherwise, it will be revoked.


Frankly, I think you're stuffed. However, even without naturalisation, you might qualify to stay on a B or C permit.
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Old 31.03.2017, 22:09
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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the authorities may open an investigation if they have sufficient doubt. The point is to determine whether you still had "effective, unique and stable conjugal life without intention to separate or divorce" at the end of naturalization process. If yes, the naturalization will not be affected; otherwise, it will be revoked.


Frankly, I think you're stuffed. However, even without naturalisation, you might qualify to stay on a B or C permit.
The 19 year old son is an adult here and therefore will have his own case of neutralisation (which will have nothing to do with your marriage). The 17 year old I'm not sure, depending on how close to 18 he is, the same.

Unless you and your husband totally agree on a divorce and it's details, you will have to wait 2 years/live separatly before you can file for divorce
If you then divorce, you will be thoroughly checked (motives, situation, bogus marriage). It can be passed

In addition you have a 5 year old son who is Swiss. It is unlikely - actually impossible - they will separate you from him and they can not - and will not even want to - expel him from Switzerland.

In your case I'd say, get naturalized first. Then separate and take it from there.

Last edited by curley; 31.03.2017 at 23:02. Reason: neutralized might be a bit harsh, thanks roegner
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Old 31.03.2017, 22:29
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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The 19 year old son is an adult here and therefore will have his own case of neutralisation (which will have nothing to do with your marriage). The 17 year old I'm not sure, depending on how close to 18 he is, the same.

Unless you and your husband totally agree on a divorce and it's details, you will have to wait 2 years/live separatly before you can file for divorce
If you then divorce, you will be thoroughly checked (motives, situation, bogus marriage). It can be passed

In addition you have a 5 year old son who is Swiss. It is unlikely - actually impossible - they will separate you from him and they can not - and will not even want to - expel him from Switzerland.

In your case I'd say, get neutralized first. Then separate and take it from there.
It doesn't matter that the divorce could take two years. Once they separate even if still married, the naturalization process will be canceled.

And as was said above, if she is granted citizenship it could well be revolted as you must affirm, several times, that you don't plan to separate or divorce and you are in a stable marriage.

Once the dirty laundry is out during the divorce, the OP is, as was said above, stuffed.

If here citizenship is revoked... game over. She will never again get it.

She's better off getting the C permit, which she can still keep, then going for ordinary naturalization when the time comes.
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Old 31.03.2017, 22:33
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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It doesn't matter that the divorce could take two years. Once they separate even if still married, the naturalization process will be canceled.

And as was said above, if she is granted citizenship it could well be revolted as you must affirm, several times, that you don't plan to separate or divorce and you are in a stable marriage.

Once the dirty laundry is out during the divorce, the OP is, as was said above, stuffed.

If here citizenship is revoked... game over. She will never again get it.

She's better off getting the C permit, which she can still keep, then going for ordinary naturalization when the time comes.
I disagree with you. (Experience)

BUT: I fully agree about the C permit. That is the perfect solution.
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Old 31.03.2017, 22:42
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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In your case I'd say, get neutralized first.
I agree 100%!

Tom
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Old 31.03.2017, 22:55
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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I disagree with you. (Experience)

BUT: I fully agree about the C permit. That is the perfect solution.
That's great for you. I wouldn't (and didn't) take the risk even though I was married for 15 years and we were on good terms, never mind some one who is talking about an abusive spouse. Personally, I'd rather wait than take that kind of risk.

To say there is no risk is, IMO, reckless. I wouldn't want to be responsible if someone else gets into shit. Wait til the OP brings up the abuse issue comes up in the divorce.....
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Old 31.03.2017, 23:09
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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I agree 100%!

Tom
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Wait til the OP brings up the abuse issue comes up in the divorce.....
She won't / can't. Since the "Schuldfrage" (question of fault) is taken out of divorce-matters the judges are absolutely not interested in any of the dirty laundry subjects.

This issue she would have to bring up in other places, if she wants to
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Old 01.04.2017, 00:36
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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It doesn't matter that the divorce could take two years. Once they separate even if still married, the naturalization process will be canceled.

And as was said above, if she is granted citizenship it could well be revolted as you must affirm, several times, that you don't plan to separate or divorce and you are in a stable marriage.

Once the dirty laundry is out during the divorce, the OP is, as was said above, stuffed.

If here citizenship is revoked... game over. She will never again get it.

She's better off getting the C permit, which she can still keep, then going for ordinary naturalization when the time comes.
Agree with the above information and sorry that you found yourself in this situation... My heart goes out to you.
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Old 01.04.2017, 09:42
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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The 19 year old son is an adult here and therefore will have his own case of neutralisation (which will have nothing to do with your marriage). The 17 year old I'm not sure, depending on how close to 18 he is, the same.

Unless you and your husband totally agree on a divorce and it's details, you will have to wait 2 years/live separatly before you can file for divorce
If you then divorce, you will be thoroughly checked (motives, situation, bogus marriage). It can be passed

In addition you have a 5 year old son who is Swiss. It is unlikely - actually impossible - they will separate you from him and they can not - and will not even want to - expel him from Switzerland.

In your case I'd say, get naturalized first. Then separate and take it from there.
That is the worst advice ever. She could open herself up to all sorts of problems afterwards and scupper her chances of ever getting naturalisation in the future.

Staying here on a C permit and applying for normal naturalisation further down the track would make far more sense.

Both the sons are eligible for normal naturalisation. The 17 year old could apply for it independently of his mother so it would be better for him to do that.

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It doesn't matter that the divorce could take two years. Once they separate even if still married, the naturalization process will be canceled.

And as was said above, if she is granted citizenship it could well be revolted as you must affirm, several times, that you don't plan to separate or divorce and you are in a stable marriage.

Once the dirty laundry is out during the divorce, the OP is, as was said above, stuffed.

If here citizenship is revoked... game over. She will never again get it.

She's better off getting the C permit, which she can still keep, then going for ordinary naturalization when the time comes.
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That's great for you. I wouldn't (and didn't) take the risk even though I was married for 15 years and we were on good terms, never mind some one who is talking about an abusive spouse. Personally, I'd rather wait than take that kind of risk.

To say there is no risk is, IMO, reckless. I wouldn't want to be responsible if someone else gets into shit. Wait til the OP brings up the abuse issue comes up in the divorce.....
100% agree with MiniMia's posts.
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Old 01.04.2017, 11:18
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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...100% agree with MiniMia's posts.
And another 100% agree here.

When I completed facilitated naturalization last year, we had to certify - in writing - multiple times - that we were still married, living together, in a stable, conjugal relationship - with no intent to divorce. This is not OP's intention at all, so signing documentation claiming it is would be a terrible idea.
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Old 01.04.2017, 11:29
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

Must say, I agree too. And I am so sorry you find yourself in this horrid situation. Is there anyone you could ask for help- a local womens' group or immigration club as we have here in Neuchâtel?.
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Old 01.04.2017, 11:43
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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Is there anyone you could ask for help- a local womens' group or immigration club as we have here in Neuchâtel?.
This might be a starting point finding help in canton BE:

http://www.opferhilfe-bern.ch/index.php?ds=14

Flyer in English:
http://www.opferhilfe-bern.ch/rsFile...T_Englisch.pdf
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Old 01.04.2017, 14:03
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

What follows may be complete bollocks, but I think it may be worth the while to try and see things from a different angle.

In case of a divorce, shared responsibility is the norm and the general opinion is that it's healthy for a child to keep contact with both parents. At this point everybody is Swiss resident, presumably the Swiss (ex-)husband and father of the youngest will stay. Generally speaking, it seems that in case of divorce shared responsibility is the norm though custody is still typically assigned to the mother. Because the father presumably will stay, the authorities' POV (in particular, KESB's) will probably be that it's in the son's best interest to stay here as well; as a Swiss citizen this is his unconditional right.

As a result, I would think, if the mother gets custody of the youngest son she'll be forbidden to move abroad with him. This in turn probably means that OP, if assigned custody, automatically at the least gets a permit that depends on her son's citizenship if she doesn't have one (or Swiss citizenship) of its own right already. Which means she will fulfill the criteria for normal naturalisation before this derived permit has run out.

What say you? Does that even make sense?
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Old 01.04.2017, 16:20
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

I suggest you seek some legal advice.

031 311 17 95
Infra Bern
Zentrum5
Flurstrasse 26b
3014 Bern

You can call them to set up a meeting and explain your situation. (It's free and some of them they speak English)

Call during these hours:
Tues. 18.00–20.00
Thurs. 09.00–11.00
Sat. 11.00–13.00
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Old 01.04.2017, 17:49
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

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What follows may be complete bollocks, but I think it may be worth the while to try and see things from a different angle...

What say you? Does that even make sense?
It think it's a very similar angle, actually. OP is not entitled to citizenship simply because she has a Swiss child. If she's been married and living here for 7 years, odds are she already has the C permit. That means she can stay here, even if divorced. Even if she only has a B permit now, she can probably stay under the conditions you mentioned (i.e. not being separated from the child).

There's no rush for her to get citizenship as long as she has permanent residence. I'd recommend doing it the proper way instead of hoping this works out and then the authorities get feisty because the couple lied repeatedly on the paperwork. Who wants that while going through a divorce?
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Old 01.04.2017, 18:13
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Re: divorce after naturalisation

Makes sense. My only concern would be the 17 year old in light of the resent deportation of a 17 year old girl to her country of origin in the Balkans.... But assuming he has been here 7 years and has C permit it should be ok.

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What follows may be complete bollocks, but I think it may be worth the while to try and see things from a different angle.

In case of a divorce, shared responsibility is the norm and the general opinion is that it's healthy for a child to keep contact with both parents. At this point everybody is Swiss resident, presumably the Swiss (ex-)husband and father of the youngest will stay. Generally speaking, it seems that in case of divorce shared responsibility is the norm though custody is still typically assigned to the mother. Because the father presumably will stay, the authorities' POV (in particular, KESB's) will probably be that it's in the son's best interest to stay here as well; as a Swiss citizen this is his unconditional right.

As a result, I would think, if the mother gets custody of the youngest son she'll be forbidden to move abroad with him. This in turn probably means that OP, if assigned custody, automatically at the least gets a permit that depends on her son's citizenship if she doesn't have one (or Swiss citizenship) of its own right already. Which means she will fulfill the criteria for normal naturalisation before this derived permit has run out.

What say you? Does that even make sense?
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